Randyl Tarley never planned on killing Sam

[Varysblackfyre321]

Kinslaying is one of the worst crime's imagineble in Westeroes society, it's frowned upon (supposedly) by gods and men alike. Tarley is religious zealot. He'd never jepordize his immortal soul for even his houses pride. But at this point he knew the bluff was enough. And if it didn't work? Why that the better! Sammy boy just showed he got some balls and thus may have a chance after all.

[The Sunland Lord]

Did you mean Randyll Tarly?

[Stormking902]

Lord Tarly wouldnt kill Sam himself it's true but like Tarly himself said accidents happen, also he could send Sam to the front lines of a battle like Tywin did to Tyrion and Samwell is a bigger target then small Tyrion Lannister. The crime for deserting an army is death so either way Sam fights and dies or he cowards out and his sentenced to death so win win for Randyll. 

[Jon Fossoway]

I believe he could have killed him. Macs sure is a malignant human being.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Randyll Tarly is a religious man but people find ways to explain away their behavior to somehow make it fit with the teachings of their religion.  Let's take a look at the man's past.  He's respected by his men.  In Westeros during those times "respect" is akin to feared.  No one does what you tell them if they don't want to unless they fear you.  Men do what Randyll thells them to.  He says what he means and he backs it up.  He doesn't make empty threats.  He's a very harsh and cruel man but his methods work.  I don't like him but I can respect him because he lets me know my boundaries and what happens if I cross the lines. 

Ser Piggy would have met with an accident if he had refused to go to the NW.  Randyll will keep it a secret from his wife.  No one will know what happened so Randyll keeps his honor.  His public image and that of his house remain clean. 

[kissdbyfire]

4 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I believe he could have killed him. Macs sure is a malignant human being.

Dunno about Macs but Randyll is hands down one of ASoIaF's biggest douchebags.

And yes, he'd totally kill Sam. B/c even if he didn't do the deed himself and "only" ordered it (douche and a coward), it would still be on him. 

[Curled Finger]

Sam certainly believes his father would kill him.  Sam seems to have a very real grip on things.  He's chubby, not stupid.  

[Varysblackfyre321]

56 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Dunno about Macs but Randyll is hands down one of ASoIaF's biggest douchebags.

And yes, he'd totally kill Sam. B/c even if he didn't do the deed himself and "only" ordered it (douche and a coward), it would still be on him. 

You think he'd honestly think the gods would care about such a qualifier? I mean isn't any man who'd do it basically working as an extension of Tarley?

[Darth Sidious]

You meant Randy Tarly, right?

[Bernie Mac]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Sam certainly believes his father would kill him.  Sam seems to have a very real grip on things.  He's chubby, not stupid.  

He's also, at the start of the series, a coward and extremely weak willed. Personally I think this was another test, similar to Sam being made to wear his mothers clothes. He is meant to stand up for himself, refuse to go/take off the dress proving that he does have some will power. Instead he fails and just caves in. Randyll can not have someone that weak willed with the responsibility of his family, vassals and lands.  Sam did what he always did. he failed. 

 

To put into further context, Sam could have ran away, Sam could have refused to say his vows and made a life for himself in some other kingdom. Sam actually chose the easy option, the Wall would feed and shelter him so he freely accepted to be a servant for the rest of his life because he was too weak and lazy to do anything else. 

 

The ironic thing is that Randyll's methods were not harsh enough. It is coming face to face with an Other, something that is far scarier than anything those Warlocks could have shown Sam, is what has made him more confident and brave. We even see Sam beating the shit out of Daeron for refusing to work for him. The idea that Sam could not fight was clearly bullshit, he just needed to be scared into it. 

 

 

[Curled Finger]

10 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

He's also, at the start of the series, a coward and extremely weak willed. Personally I think this was another test, similar to Sam being made to wear his mothers clothes. He is meant to stand up for himself, refuse to go/take off the dress proving that he does have some will power. Instead he fails and just caves in. Randyll can not have someone that weak willed with the responsibility of his family, vassals and lands.  Sam did what he always did. he failed. 

 

To put into further context, Sam could have ran away, Sam could have refused to say his vows and made a life for himself in some other kingdom. Sam actually chose the easy option, the Wall would feed and shelter him so he freely accepted to be a servant for the rest of his life because he was too weak and lazy to do anything else. 

 

The ironic thing is that Randyll's methods were not harsh enough. It is coming face to face with an Other, something that is far scarier than anything those Warlocks could have shown Sam, is what has made him more confident and brave. We even see Sam beating the shit out of Daeron for refusing to work for him. The idea that Sam could not fight was clearly bullshit, he just needed to be scared into it. 

 

 

Sam is a beautiful character--not cut out to be a fierce lord.   He is a scholar and his father didn't appreciate that in any way, shape or form, making him as small minded as Sam portrays him to be.   I've never seen the Wall referred to as an easy option before.   It never occurred to me that Sam was weak or lazy, certainly not in opting to swear himself to the Nights Watch.  I believe Sam took his vows and made his home where he had friends and support--something he obviously lacked from his father. 

Are you a troll--just saying bizarre things in hopes of getting people riled up?    

[Bernie Mac]

 

2 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Are you a troll--just saying bizarre things in hopes of getting people riled up?    

Why is it so many of you can not take a dissenting opinion to your own as anything more than being a troll?

And getting riled up over someone having a different opinion to you about fictional characters? Grow the fuck up. 

[Curled Finger]

16 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

Why is it so many of you can not take a dissenting opinion to your own as anything more than being a troll?

And getting riled up over someone having a different opinion to you about fictional characters? Grow the fuck up. 

Hmm, seems you can't take an opposing opinion yourself.  Now that we've both got that off our chests I look forward to never speaking with you again.  

[Ralphis Baratheon]

8 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I believe he could have killed him. Macs sure is a malignant human being.

Yes, it's well known Macs Tyrell is a blood thirsty beast of a man. It's why he's kept in the deepest dungeon in Highgarden and is only let out to kill serious threats like Sam.

29 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Hmm, seems you can't take an opposing opinion yourself.  Now that we've both got that off our chests I look forward to never speaking with you again.  

LOL

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

He's also, at the start of the series, a coward and extremely weak willed. Personally I think this was another test, similar to Sam being made to wear his mothers clothes. He is meant to stand up for himself, refuse to go/take off the dress proving that he does have some will power. Instead he fails and just caves in. Randyll can not have someone that weak willed with the responsibility of his family, vassals and lands.  Sam did what he always did. he failed. 

 

To put into further context, Sam could have ran away, Sam could have refused to say his vows and made a life for himself in some other kingdom. Sam actually chose the easy option, the Wall would feed and shelter him so he freely accepted to be a servant for the rest of his life because he was too weak and lazy to do anything else. 

 

The ironic thing is that Randyll's methods were not harsh enough. It is coming face to face with an Other, something that is far scarier than anything those Warlocks could have shown Sam, is what has made him more confident and brave. We even see Sam beating the shit out of Daeron for refusing to work for him. The idea that Sam could not fight was clearly bullshit, he just needed to be scared into it. 

 

 

I think given actual support and encouragement Sam would have tried to exhibit more lordish qualities. He does kill the other other out of instinct but even the lowest coward could attack if thought truly cornered.  "Tough love" only made Sam try to to retreat further back into the hobbies he was already comfortable in. He eats more because he's told that's all he's good for.  He hits Daeron true but because Daeron had spat on the NW which gave Sam meaning and brothers like Jon. I think "easy" is a little unfair. The NW is hard way of living but Sam probably honestly believed his father hated him that much to surely kill him.

[kissdbyfire]

7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

You think he'd honestly think the gods would care about such a qualifier? I mean isn't any man who'd do it basically working as an extension of Tarley?

I have no idea what any god would think or care even if any existed! But it's what I think Randyll would do. 

[Trigger Warning]

I don't think he really had to think about it, I doubt he thought Sam would refuse under any circumstances, the result was likely never in question. 

[Blackwater Revenant]

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The ironic thing is that Randyll's methods were not harsh enough. It is coming face to face with an Other, something that is far scarier than anything those Warlocks could have shown Sam, is what has made him more confident and brave. We even see Sam beating the shit out of Daeron for refusing to work for him. The idea that Sam could not fight was clearly bullshit, he just needed to be scared into it. 

Yeah, not like the encouragement and support of his brothers, and friends like Jon helped him at all. Perhaps if Tarly wasn't such a clueless douchebag, Sam would have been living up to his potential at a much younger age, instead of only coming out of his shell once he was away from his sadistic and oppressive father.

[Bernie Mac]

7 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Yeah, not like the encouragement and support of his brothers, and friends like Jon helped him at all.

Clearly not enough. We see how weak willed he is on the march and at Craster's were he continually gives up and is reliant on other people such as Grenn, Big Paul and Gilly who all force him to move as he would rather lie down and die. 

It is only after his encounter with the Other that he becomes more proactive, willing to do things on his own initiative and stand up for himself. 

 

It is not like Jon is the first person to show him support, Sam points out that he had several years of peace with his mother and sisters after his father gave up on him. It did not change the fact that he was still incredibly weak willed. 

7 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Perhaps if Tarly wasn't such a clueless douchebag, Sam would have been living up to his potential at a much younger age, instead of only coming out of his shell once he was away from his sadistic and oppressive father.

And perhaps it was only going to the Wall and encountering an Other that forced Sam to finally stand up for himself. 

It is not like Randyll was the only one who thought Sam was worthless, Lord Redwyne thought so to as does much of the Reach. Even Jon did not have faith in him as Jon pleaded that Sam be the first ever recruit who did not have to pass the basic training. 

[kissdbyfire]

33 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Yeah, not like the encouragement and support of his brothers, and friends like Jon helped him at all. Perhaps if Tarly wasn't such a clueless douchebag, Sam would have been living up to his potential at a much younger age, instead of only coming out of his shell once he was away from his sadistic and oppressive father.

Well said. Apparently encouragement and support is for sissies, and clearly the best way to help your children reach their full potential is to terrorise, threaten, beat and scare them shitless.