Brienne's Honor in Pennytree

[Curled Finger]

3 hours ago, Seams said:

Found this yesterday in my meanderings through the wiki. From the description of the Bravo, a type of swordsman commonly found in the free cities:

It is said amongst the Braavosi that the night belongs to bravos and courtesans. When night falls, good citizens of Braavos retreat indoors, closing shutters and barring doors.[5] Bravos swagger through Braavos in their parti-colored finery, looking to pick fights and prove their skills.[5]

Most will fight with little cause or no cause. Anyone carrying a sword after dark in Braavos can be challenged to a duel. Simply placing a finger on the hilt of a sword while facing a bravo is akin to challenging them.[5] Bravos never bother anyone without a sword.[5]

Oh Boy.   Who knew such  small gesture could invite so much?  I wonder if the gesture has regional meanings or if there is a type of gesture associated with this?   Say right hand means one thing and left means another?  It will be very interesting to see what our Ser Lady means.  

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Seams said:

Found this yesterday in my meanderings through the wiki. From the description of the Bravo, a type of swordsman commonly found in the free cities:

It is said amongst the Braavosi that the night belongs to bravos and courtesans. When night falls, good citizens of Braavos retreat indoors, closing shutters and barring doors.[5] Bravos swagger through Braavos in their parti-colored finery, looking to pick fights and prove their skills.[5]

Most will fight with little cause or no cause. Anyone carrying a sword after dark in Braavos can be challenged to a duel. Simply placing a finger on the hilt of a sword while facing a bravo is akin to challenging them.[5] Bravos never bother anyone without a sword.[5]

But neither Brienne nor Jaime come from that subculture. They come from their own martial subculture in the southern portion of Westeros north of Dorne. 

[Curled Finger]

23 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Sorry for popping in & out at random but I just read this passage : 

While Jaime & Co are supping at Darry on his way to River Run. Could LSH have went to talk to Howland Reed? If so why? Could he have told her about Jon's parentage? If so that could lend credence to the idea that LSH is heading to the wall to crown Jon. She would have lost much of her hate for him realizing he wasn't her beloved Ned's bastard. A long shot, I know but thought it was worth mentioning 

I rather suspect there is an arm or tentacle of the BWB near or in the neck.   At that point you have to ask yourself why and what do you know about the potential players in this game.  There is another conversation in general addressing Howland Reed.   I am with the majority.   Because of Meera and to a lesser degree Jojen, I find myself assuming Howland Reed is like his children, brave and faithful and magical.  Truth is I don't know that.   I'm making an assumption about a character I have heard very little about, but I can't get around it.  Ned Dayne and Jack Be Lucky and Greenbeard are suspiciously absent from LSH's cell group.  Again, I assume they are remnants of Dondarion's BWB; brave and just and resourceful.  They or other representatives could be in The Neck hoping to learn guerrilla warfare or poison or any manner of non chivalrous death to win their war in the Riverlands.    Or they could be looking for passage into the North.  Or something we never saw coming.   If LSH has met with our Little Crannogman and he's betrayed the secret of Jon's parentage to the creature formerly known as Catelyn I still can't see her wanting to crown Jon.   But that's just my bent, it doesn't take anything from your idea at all.  

I stumble with Cat/LSH.  LSH doesn't seem like a nicer or more reasonable person that Cat.  But I do trust that she loved her husband, if not his nephew or the North.  That could be reason enough to take a crown to Jon.   And it serves up revenge to Roose Bolton, doesn't it?  

Honestly, Lyanna, this discussion had made me far more accepting of LSH doing all sorts of things I couldn't see before, as well as her companions.   I can't see the crown given with love but I can see it given with the hope of revenge.  If Jon is the last Stark, through Lyanna, instead of her own children, yah.   She loved Ned that much.  And I think you're right on.   Had Cat known Jon's truths she may have been more accepting or at least understanding of him.  

[Curled Finger]

On 1/8/2018 at 8:05 PM, divica said:

If it means something I think she will try to switch swords with jamie to give him a better fighting chance and simbolize that she is breaking her oath to him.

She could say something about the hound wanting to fight him and that he should take the VS to gain na advantage...

My initial reaction was , "but Jamie can't fight with his sword much at all!"...then I was reminded of the many times Brienne and Jon Snow mention that their Valyrian Steel swords seem to act of their own accord.  I watched Jamie sneak off with Illyn every night for weeks to practice and I know Jamie can somewhat write with his left hand, too.  So yes, I think that's a fine idea

[Curled Finger]

23 hours ago, divica said:

Did she already have robb's crown then?

The crown wouldn't be necessary in that Cat knew about the will.  The crown is a nice nudge in that direction though.  

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

I think she is lying to get Jaime away from his men, and because she can't talk openly in front of them.  I don't believe she is leading Jaime into a trap, or if so, does not intend for the trap to be sprung.  My guess is that she either has a plan or is hoping that Jaime can help to devise one.

I think the BwB may be holding on to Jaime for some future purpose, such as a rescue of prisoners.  They could either hold Jaime hostage and threaten to kill him if the prisoners aren't released, or, alternatively, Jaime could order the prisoners turned over to him.  This last option might work against the Freys, with the Northern prisoners, as they wouldn't necessarily know that the men with him weren't Lannisters'.

I don't think he's dead because his body hasn't shown up, and there is no reason for the BwB to hide the fact that he's dead.

@HelenaExMachina, my main problem with the current BwB is that they seem mainly focused on revenge killings.  Their main purpose was to protect the smallfolk from the rampaging armies.  Well, they are mostly gone.  The Bolton forces have left, and the Lannisters are mostly gone, and those that are left are either in garrison and/or are relatively well-behaved.  

Killing Freys may hold some satisfaction, but I don't really think it accomplishes much, and I think most of the Freys participated in the RW essentially because they were told to.  That may make them stupid or cowards, but hardly venal or villainous.  You want to kill Lothar or Black Walder, be my guest.  But, otherwise, all you do is prolong the violence.   

Man Nevets, I have spent the last hour looking for your post.  I couldn't agree more with your opening statements.   I think @Seams's quote further backs that thinking up.   Whatever Brienne's meaning, this touching is a signal among swordsmen.  

Considering we have 3 separate and important groups of hostages in the Riverlands heck yes Jamie is important in whatever the BWB plans for one or all the groups. 

The whole idea of Jamie or Brienne actually being dead and risen or just dead is such a hard notion to really get my head around.  But I think you're right and we should have heard something 3 weeks later.   

I agree largely with your ideas about revenge versus justice in relation to LSH's group.   I wonder if they aren't a novelty to the larger brotherhood?  Like ah how cute look at the hanging Freys.   Hey, that's one less Frey to deal with when X event happens.    I do think the Freys are hated by everyone in the Riverlands.   I think their crime was unforgivable among their peers.  That doesn't make any political faction more sympathetic to the North or Tullys but I do think the Freys require addressing.  Would an ill equipped underground operation be more successful with a big grand affair such as the Red Wedding or a series of hangings, plucking a Frey at a time?  I rather like the smaller function of LSH's group being the executioners.    I think most readers want justice for those dirty rat Freys.   The hangings may not seem like justice in comparison to revenge, but it is a type of justice.  I'm OK with revenge against these targets.   I hope they get the whole dirty bunch of them and all their conspirators.   I wonder if it's possible to make a chart of the total, exterminated and remaining bad Freys?   

Honestly Nevets, I'm not any closer to understanding what is happening with Jamie and Brienne.   But I do see LSH more clearly than I did.   Such is the beauty of community.  

[Lost Melnibonean]

28 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

My initial reaction was , "but Jamie can't fight with his sword much at all!"...then I was reminded of the many times Brienne and Jon Snow mention that their Valyrian Steel swords seem to act of their own accord.  I watched Jamie sneak off with Illyn every night for weeks to practice and I know Jamie can somewhat write with his left hand, too.  So yes, I think that's a fine idea

That's what Qhorin and Illyn are for--to show that Jaime can be a bad ass with his left. 

[Curled Finger]

Just now, Lost Melnibonean said:

That's what Qhorin and Illyn are for--to show that Jaime can be a bad ass with his left. 

Arya, too.  It's not the left hand that bothers me it is the left hand that is not highly trained.  Still it reminds me of Theon with his flayed fingers using a long sword to put a very sick man out of his misery.   It's too early to count Jamie out yet.  

[Lost Melnibonean]

15 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Arya, too.  It's not the left hand that bothers me it is the left hand that is not highly trained.  Still it reminds me of Theon with his flayed fingers using a long sword to put a very sick man out of his misery.   It's too early to count Jamie out yet.  

Arya is left handed Qhorin was not. He trained to fight with his left after his right hand was mutilated. Illyn is training Jaime to fight with his left like Qhorin. 

[Curled Finger]

2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Arya is left handed Qhorin was not. He trained to fight with his left after his right hand was mutilated. Illyn is training Jaime to fight with his left like Qhorin. 

Of course you're right and I jumped to a conclusion you didn't mean.   Your fault.   You got me excited!  Jamie can write somewhat with his left hand so it's clear he's trying very hard to retrain himself.    Theon can behead a man with his own maiming and no retraining.   I'm just not sure Jamie's had enough time to really get that hand and arm into shape.  But there is no doubting he's working very hard at it.   Couldn't hurt to get a magic sword, either.  Is it me or do the stars be seeming to align here? 

[Nevets]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Of course you're right and I jumped to a conclusion you didn't mean.   Your fault.   You got me excited!  Jamie can write somewhat with his left hand so it's clear he's trying very hard to retrain himself.    Theon can behead a man with his own maiming and no retraining.   I'm just not sure Jamie's had enough time to really get that hand and arm into shape.  But there is no doubting he's working very hard at it.   Couldn't hurt to get a magic sword, either.  Is it me or do the stars be seeming to align here? 

I'm guessing that it Qhorin years to become truly skilled with his left hand.  Jaime doesn't have years.  Unless Ilyn is a whole lot better than I think he is, Jaime's abilities with his left hand leave much to be desired.  If he goes up against anyone with a lot of skill, he is going to lose.

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I think most readers want justice for those dirty rat Freys.   The hangings may not seem like justice in comparison to revenge, but it is a type of justice.  I'm OK with revenge against these targets.   I hope they get the whole dirty bunch of them and all their conspirators.   I wonder if it's possible to make a chart of the total, exterminated and remaining bad Freys? 

Ah, Justice.  That elusive concept.  I've no problem with killing the bad Freys.  The problem is what is the definition of "bad Frey".  I tend to limit it to leadership and planners of the RW, with maybe some of the more active participants thrown in for good measure.  I'm not sure the likes of Merrett and Peter pimple qualify.  As I said they may be stupid and cowardly, but I have a hard time seeing the majority of Freys sufficiently villainous to warrant killing.  Isolation and disdain will likely be enough once the bigwigs are gone.  They'll probably start killing each other in large numbers once Lord Walder dies, anyway.

[Lost Melnibonean]

8 hours ago, Nevets said:

I'm guessing that it Qhorin years to become truly skilled with his left hand.  Jaime doesn't have years.  Unless Ilyn is a whole lot better than I think he is, Jaime's abilities with his left hand leave much to be desired.  If he goes up against anyone with a lot of skill, he is going to lose.

Perhaps the George expected Jaime to have five years to learn to fight with his left. 

[Curled Finger]

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

I'm guessing that it Qhorin years to become truly skilled with his left hand.  Jaime doesn't have years.  Unless Ilyn is a whole lot better than I think he is, Jaime's abilities with his left hand leave much to be desired.  If he goes up against anyone with a lot of skill, he is going to lose.

Ah, Justice.  That elusive concept.  I've no problem with killing the bad Freys.  The problem is what is the definition of "bad Frey".  I tend to limit it to leadership and planners of the RW, with maybe some of the more active participants thrown in for good measure.  I'm not sure the likes of Merrett and Peter pimple qualify.  As I said they may be stupid and cowardly, but I have a hard time seeing the majority of Freys sufficiently villainous to warrant killing.  Isolation and disdain will likely be enough once the bigwigs are gone.  They'll probably start killing each other in large numbers once Lord Walder dies, anyway.

Thanks, Nevets, again you elaborate on things I can't describe with 1000 words.  Thank you.  To Jamie's left hand skill:  The 2 things Jamie has going for him to perhaps accelerate his ability to use his left hand are his talent and confidence.  We know through Jamie's own thoughts he believes the Hound would whip him in a fight.  Like your own talent for stating a thing succinctly as opposed to my own lugubrious wording statement of the same thing, Jamie is talented with the sword.  He says repeatedly this is what he was born to do.  We know he was considered the finest swordsman in the realm.  Even without adequate training Jamie would be able to whip me with his left hand because his movements are instinctual.   It's not a lot, but is an edge.  Confidence is another thing that affects a person's ability.   Jamie believes he can do well with his left hand where someone else may simply give up.  Another small edge.  No, he doesn't have years of training.  However, a person born with talent will not lose that talent.   Add a magic sword that "seems to act" of its own accord and we may just have enough for a miracle.   

Justice isn't a relative term.  However, LSH has a full on vendetta against the Freys.   This intent works well with the overall perhaps higher mind of the BWB.   The end justifying the means?  It's likely LSH is a temporary character like Beric.  She will have to die.  There is far too much reason for her not to survive.   The manner of her death may well play into the justice mindedness of the BWB--or Jamie or Brienne or Thoros.  She needs the gift of mercy.  Mercy is a key factor in dispensing justice.   She simply doesn't fit with the BWB long term.   As you say, she may be no more than culling the Freys down to the place where survivors being killing each other.   Where is Black Walder?  I suspect she's got a few more dead Freys to see to then her part will be played, making the large Frey clan a manageable candidate for extinction.   Maybe.  I can't see LSH getting close enough to old Walder Frey to hang him.  But Black Walder is actually chasing her.   He seems to be a key player in orchestrating the Red Wedding.  Perhaps as a senior member and serious mover and shaker within the Frey organization, Black Walder's death may be enough to serve and hopefully exhaust LSH's purpose?   Just some food for thought.

[Cridefea]

On 7/1/2018 at 11:47 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

Ser Hyle And Pod (Pod moreso) as I mentioned in my initial comment are indeed problematic and a guilt by association thing.

I still think that we don't know why they wanted to talk with Brienne. For Jaime? For Sansa? Pod is a good way to persuade Brienne to do almost everything they want. Almost.

On 7/1/2018 at 0:27 AM, Nevets said:

Elder Brother:  I doubt that the Elder Brother was trying to harm Brienne; he seems to be helping her.  The information about Arya is quite valuable to her, and he could have let her continue on her wild goose chase after the Hound.  And whatever his motives for sending them to the inn, Arya was last seen.  That much is true.

I don't think he was trying to harm Brienne, on the contrary he tried very hard to persuade her to go back to Tarh, before being killed. What I said it's that we don't know if he is part of that "web" who's collaborating with the Brotherhood, to protect the smallfolk.

On 7/1/2018 at 9:17 PM, Bernie Mac said:

His 'gods' have determined that she comes back so he is there to see what the gods have planned for the both of them.

Yes, who is he to disagree?

On 6/1/2018 at 2:57 AM, Curled Finger said:

There is a less persuasive theory that Elder Brother is Jonathor Darry, who you recall was a Kings Guard brother with Jamie under Aerys. 

Why Jonathor?  I don't think he lied when he told his story... So probably he's a member of one house of landed knights...

[Curled Finger]

18 minutes ago, Cridefea said:

I still think that we don't know why they wanted to talk with Brienne. For Jaime? For Sansa? Pod is a good way to persuade Brienne to do almost everything they want. Almost.

I don't think he was trying to harm Brienne, on the contrary he tried very hard to persuade her to go back to Tarh, before being killed. What I said it's that we don't know if he is part of that "web" who's collaborating with the Brotherhood, to protect the smallfolk.

Yes, who is he to disagree?

Why Jonathor?  I don't think he lied when he told his story... So probably he's a member of one house of landed knights...

Agreed, Pod is a good way to get anything anyone would want from Brienne.  Elder Brother sure comes off like a good guy.  I suspect everyone in the Riverlands of one thing or another, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.   Why do we suspect Elder Brother may be Jonathor Darry?   Well, we know where Barristan and Jamie are and the rest of the kingsgaurd are dead with the exception of Jonathor Darry, whereabouts and fate unknown.   Very much like Richard Lonmouth's fate is unknown.  A Kings Guard would be valuable in the aftermath of war.  It's curious his body wasn't found.  What could have happened to him?   How about he became a broken man after his Prince's death and defeat?  Elder Brother is a former warrior by his own admission.   He's pretty adamant about The Hound being dead and at peace while he knows full well he's harboring the newly repentant Sandor Clegane.  And there is that so cryptic reference to waiting for the 7th ruby.   That quote can be taken a lot of ways, but I wondered if it's not some reference to another missing white brother--Jamie perhaps? (7KG ?) Elder Brother just fits the description of Septon Meribald's description of human fall out.  As I say there is less persuasive evidence for Elder Brother's identity than Lem Lemoncloak's. 

I don't think he was trying to set Brienne up for anything nefarious.  It wouldn't surprise me if we find out Septon Meribald was tasked with locating Brienne and bringing her to the Riverlands.   If that's so, Elder Brother suggesting the Inn is at very least, a nudge in that direction to unite Brienne with the noble BWB.  His motivation could have been anything, but I do think it has more to do with Jamie than Sansa, the quest or Brienne herself. 

[Nevets]

Jaime:  The most likely people for Jaime to fight are Brienne and Lem Lemoncloak.  If it's Brienne, he will allow her to win.  If Lem, I expect that Lem is good enough to beat Jaime.  Jaime himself doesn't have a high opinion of his own skill with his left hand, and that's not a good sign.  I expect, though, that whatever the BwB has in mind doesn't involve Jaime actually having to fight.

Septon Meribald:  I think he is pretty much as he appears; a wandering septon.  I doubt he is the septon mentioned in "Arya's chapter because I think the "broken men" story suggests that he is burnt-out on fighting.  I do expect he reports to the BwB from time to time on conditions in the area, but I don't think he had anything to do with Brienne or the others landing at the Inn.  At least, not with malicious intent.

Elder Brother:  Same thing as with Septon Meribald.  I think he is as he appears, although I could be wrong.  Wouldn't be the first time.It's been a while, but I think he believes Brienne to be sincere, and is trying to help.  While he would prefer she went home,  I think he realizes her dedication to her mission.

Freys:  I don't expect LSH to kill Lord Walder.  I expect old age to do so.  He is 90+ years old.  He is the only thing holding that family together, and once he is gone, I expect a bloodletting.  As for the Red Wedding 2, i expect security for Daven Lannsiter's wedding to be extremely tight.  Neither Daven nor Genna Lannister is any kind of fool.  While Tom of Sevenstreams is probably up to something, if he's hoping to do a RW2, he is probably going to be disappointed.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'm not sure how it happens, but Jaime or maybe even unJaime, will escape this perdicament. He still has to kill Cersei, make a king, and join Jon at the Wall. 

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, Nevets said:

Jaime:  The most likely people for Jaime to fight are Brienne and Lem Lemoncloak.  If it's Brienne, he will allow her to win.  If Lem, I expect that Lem is good enough to beat Jaime.  Jaime himself doesn't have a high opinion of his own skill with his left hand, and that's not a good sign.  I expect, though, that whatever the BwB has in mind doesn't involve Jaime actually having to fight.

Septon Meribald:  I think he is pretty much as he appears; a wandering septon.  I doubt he is the septon mentioned in "Arya's chapter because I think the "broken men" story suggests that he is burnt-out on fighting.  I do expect he reports to the BwB from time to time on conditions in the area, but I don't think he had anything to do with Brienne or the others landing at the Inn.  At least, not with malicious intent.

Elder Brother:  Same thing as with Septon Meribald.  I think he is as he appears, although I could be wrong.  Wouldn't be the first time.It's been a while, but I think he believes Brienne to be sincere, and is trying to help.  While he would prefer she went home,  I think he realizes her dedication to her mission.

Freys:  I don't expect LSH to kill Lord Walder.  I expect old age to do so.  He is 90+ years old.  He is the only thing holding that family together, and once he is gone, I expect a bloodletting.  As for the Red Wedding 2, i expect security for Daven Lannsiter's wedding to be extremely tight.  Neither Daven nor Genna Lannister is any kind of fool.  While Tom of Sevenstreams is probably up to something, if he's hoping to do a RW2, he is probably going to be disappointed.

With you all the way here, Nevets.   Don't see another fighter to pit Jamie against anywhere.  Don't see the Freys lasting for much longer.   Don't see a RW 2.0.  Septons and Elder Brothers are a hard sell for full fledged BWB members, more or less sympathizers.  

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I'm not sure how it happens, but Jaime or maybe even unJaime, will escape this perdicament. He still has to kill Cersei, make a king, and join Jon at the Wall. 

Ah, Un Jamie.  Un Brienne, for that matter.   Both or just Jamie?   Do you see a solo mission for Jamie once he's done whatever it is he has to do for the BWB or LSH?   You made no mention of finding Stark girls.  

If Jamie was to die and come back who would be the magic dispenser to bring him back?  Who would he make king? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Ah, Un Jamie.  Un Brienne, for that matter.   Both or just Jamie?   Do you see a solo mission for Jamie once he's done whatever it is he has to do for the BWB or LSH?   You made no mention of finding Stark girls.  

If Jamie was to die and come back who would be the magic dispenser to bring him back?  Who would he make king? 

Aegon. After leaving Harrenhall but before returning to rescue Brienne Jaime had a dream. We know this was inspired by Bloodraven since Jaime rested his head on a weirwood stump.

He is forced down into a cave by hooded figures brandishing spears. Is this a foreshadowing of Jaime's coming encounter with Catelyn? 

He is shoved into a pit with Brienne, who fears a bear. This seems to be an obvious foreshadowing of Jaime's rescuing the maiden later in the chapter.

Tywin, Cersei, and Joffrey then appear. This predates the Red Wedding so Tywin and Joffrey are still alive at this point, but he and Joffrey will soon die, suffering deaths for which Jaime must later feel some blame. He released Tyrion, who killed Tywin, and he was the Lord Commander of Joffrey's Kingsguard but unable to protect him. And of course Jaime is the leading candidate to be Cersei's valonqar.

The trio departs but not before Tywin gives Jaime a sword. Keep in mind that the sword Tywin actually gives to Jaime is one of two from Ice and Jaime gives his sword, in turn, to Brienne. In the dream Brienne gets a sword like Jaime's and they both burn--silvery blue, like ice, real ice, not the sword of course, but the allusion is there.

Here's the way Brienne recalls Jaime at Harrenhal...

At Harrenhal the tubs had been huge, and made of stone. The bathhouse had been thick with the steam rising off the water, and Jaime had come walking through that mist naked as his name day, looking half a corpse and half a god.

Brienne II, Feast

And here's the way Cersei pictured him just before she began her walk of atonement...

She pictured him riding through the morning mists, his golden armor bright in the light of the rising sun.

Cersei II, Dance

Then Bloodraven, who sided with the red dragon against the brother he loved, sent Jaime's fallen Kingsguard brothers to hammer home Jaime's crime when he betrayed Aerys, notwithstanding Jaime's defense that Aerys planned to burn King's Landing. Rhaegar reminded him that he left his wife and children in Jaime's hands. Bloodraven seems to be preparing Jaime to raise up Jon, Rhaegar's heir, as king.

And all for naught. They found only darkness, dust, and rats. And dragons, lurking down below. He remembered the sullen orange glow of the coals in the iron dragon's mouth. The brazier warmed a chamber at the bottom of a shaft where half a dozen tunnels met. On the floor he'd found a scuffed mosaic of the three-headed dragon of House Targaryen done in tiles of black and red. I know you, Kingslayer, the beast seemed to be saying. I have been here all the time, waiting for you to come to me. And it seemed to Jaime that he knew that voice, the iron tones that had once belonged to Rhaegar, Prince of Dragonstone.

Jaime I, Feast

Jaime identifies with the Warrior...

Why would Cersei need the Warrior? She has me.

Jaime II, Feast

And the Warrior protects children...

The Warrior stands before the foe,

protecting us where e'er we go.

With sword and shield and spear and bow,

he guards the little children.

Samwell II, Storm

Jaime wants to make good on his failed duty to protect Rhaegar's children...

"... So long as men remember the wrongs done to their forebears, no peace will ever last. So we go on century after century, with us hating the Brackens and them hating us. My father says there will never be an end to it."

"There could be."

"How, my lord? The old wounds never heal, my father says."

"My father had a saying too. Never wound a foe when you can kill him. Dead men don't claim vengeance."

"Their sons do," said Hoster, apologetically.

"Not if you kill the sons as well. Ask the Casterlys about that if you doubt me. Ask Lord and Lady Tarbeck, or the Reynes of Castamere. Ask the Prince of Dragonstone."

For an instant, the deep red clouds that crowned the western hills reminded him of Rhaegar's children, all wrapped up in crimson cloaks.

Jaime I, Dance

Jaime doesn't believe that Rhaegar has any living children. But the George strongly hinted that Jamie will be a kingmaker...

"They belonged to Criston Cole, who served the first Viserys and the second Aegon." Jaime closed the White Book. "They called him Kingmaker."

Jaime II, Feast

But perhaps Jaime will believe Aegon's claim? Here is a telling quote from Barristan on his path to redemption after taking Robert's pardon...

"That was when I knew that to redeem myself I must find the true king, and serve him loyally, with all the strength that still remained me."

Daenerys II, Dance

And here's Jaime telling Lancel what he thought of Robert...

"Robert was no true king."

Jaime IV, Feast

When he descended for the feast that night, Jaime Lannister wore a doublet of red velvet slashed with cloth-of-gold, and a golden chain studded with black diamonds. He had strapped on his golden hand as well, polished to a fine bright sheen. This was no fit place to wear his whites. His duty awaited him at Riverrun; a darker need had brought him here.

Jaime IV, Feast

Black on Red, like the Blackfyre dragon...

Assuming Jaime is Cersei's valonqar, this quote would tie in nicely with Jaime unwittingly supporting the black dragon...

Black had never been a happy color on her. With her fair skin, it made her look half a corpse herself.