Brienne's Honor in Pennytree

[Curled Finger]

11 hours ago, RustyRootedWeirwood said:

Awesome post!  

This discussion has really got me thinking about the future for Brienne/Jaime. Scouring through this post  I'm persuaded to believe LSH has some semblance of coherent thought left in her. What I'm having a hard time believing is whether she can be convinced of better alternatives for plans that she has not come up with herself. Can she be reasoned with? Maybe, maybe not. Could you trick her into  reason by making her think she came up with idea to begin with? It's hard to say. With that being said I propose two ways I see this going. 

1. LSH just wants Jaime to hang and this is her best plan. Pretty boring IMO but it's plausible I suppose.

2. LSH wants to see if Jaime really meant to keep his vows to her. I'd like to explore more in depth on this because I'm not sure if I've seen this proposed. 

We know Brienne claims that the Hound holds the girl (Sansa/Arya) and will kill her unless Jaime comes forth personally. We all know this to not be true in a literal sense but I'm not sure that matters to LSH. She wants Jamie to think its real. She wants to see if he's really all that Brienne swore him to be (You know Brienne would keep insisting upon his honor, even after the attempted hanging). That's why she told Brienne to say what she said. BTW I do think Brienne was giving a subtle warning in her "lie" by touching the hilt of Oathkeeper, but I digress. 

I see the Jaime encounter with the "Hound" going one of three ways. 

1. They hang him immediately and Ser Goldenhand the Just story ends (Bold Strategy GRRM)

2. Jaime battles the hound to save the "girl". Where the BwB see how far Jaimes prowess has fallen but also just how far he's willing to go. In this scenario Jaime proves himself to be true and although he won't necessarily beat the "Hound" he also won't lose/die. I like something like this but I'd like to go further.

3. The third and final but also most intriguing thing I see happening  is a variation of the 2nd scenario. In this scenario the BwB/LSH are absolutely sure of Jaimes devotion to not only saving the Stark girls but also honoring to NEVER take up arms against Stark or Tully. If they can be ABSOLUTELY certain of his devotion he can be used in ways LSH could never be. If that's the case I believe he will die. And then be reborn by LSH herself. We've seen that those revived are driven by the last purpose they had in life. Who better than the leader of your enemy to be fully devoted to your cause? 

With Jaime as the new de facto leader of the BwB the sky is the limit. The BwB will have much more influence with a wight?Jaime. Not really sure what you call that but it doesn't really matter.

Obviously this is way out there as far as they go. Not bloody likely either lol. But I feel like all the likely answers have been hashed out by you fine people. Anyway I've been lurking here a while to say the least but this discussion really made me want to chime in! Appreciate the forum! And all the chatter leading up to TWOW!  (hopefully). 

You might believe me when I tell you I've been looking for your post for half an hour.   We sure are a chatty bunch--so welcome to the discussion and thanks so much for jumping in.  I'm honored you chose our conversation for your 1st post.   I've read it twice.   You're as twisted as the rest of us.  You brought some great points up.  It's possible LSH is testing the people who vowed her oaths--really good bringing Jamie's other oaths to Cat up--not to take up arms against the Starks or Tullys.   Well done.  

I don't know about LSH having the capacity for reason, but it's clear that she can plan.  With that in mind I'm sort of going along with your own epiphany here.  What if LSH took Brienne because she did know Brienne really was looking for Sansa?  WOW.  That would make a lot of sense in scripting Brienne's plea to Jamie.  As well as Brienne's touch of the sword.  Brienne is probably convinced she's taking them both to their deaths.  I remember Lem is big and he was Rhaegar's squire, but is his skill set as fine as either Jamie or Brienne's?  Jamie thinks often of fighting Sandor Clegane and losing miserably during his travels.  Interesting. 

I love the whole idea of Jamie and Brienne with the BWB without LSH.  They could bring structure to the rebel forces, possibly create their own small army with Jamie's resources.  Maybe that hand could buy a bounty of good weaponry? 

Great stuff to consider here.   

[Curled Finger]

43 minutes ago, hiemal said:

Hmmmmm- the million dollar question is where does Brienne see her loyalty, her duty, and her honor- with what remains of her sworn Lady Stark or her friend the Kingslayer. I hope, and even suspect, that she has chosen to honor life and has plans beyond leading Jaimie to his death. So- perhaps Brienne will forsake what remains of Catelyn Stark , making Oathkeeper into Oathbreaker, as LSH gurgled. In that case deception might be a necessary precursor?

Or the "her" refers to Podrick and the "Hound" to Lem.

You are having too much fun with Pod today!   I'm with you here.   High hopes for Brienne being smarter than she was.  Are either Jamie or Brienne still beholden to LSH for oaths they swore to Cat? 

[Cridefea]

1 hour ago, divica said:

@Curled Finger

This is HUGE! This proves jamie is mia for 3 weeks!

I think this proves that jamie is either travelling, a prisioner or assisting covertly in some mission (I don t know exactly know how...). However, I think that LSH wouldn t keep jamie prisioner several weeks and then send him to a wedding when it is convinent for her.

 

ps and keeping prisioners doesn t seem to be LSH style... Hoever jamie is a well of information and valuable hostage...

yes 3 weeks are a lot of time....

There are many options.... one of them could be injured and then maybe Quite Isle is a good place to go or they could be on the run and again Quite isle would be a good place to hide. Sandor is 99% there, so I think it's a key place. Maybe they get some infos about Sansa and go to rescue her. Anyhow I really can't see Jaime immadiately come back to his army, given his current situation. Brienne is probably going to live her most crucial moment of personal growth, but also Jaime is questioning his own identity. Maybe he needs to be away from Lannisters.

[LynnS]

21 minutes ago, divica said:

Maybe. But before thinking outside the box I think we need to think inside the box. 

I think the appearance of Faceless Men in the company of the BwB and at Winterfell is quite significant to the larger plot. I disagree that this is some minor tidbit.  They are not just spies or assassins for hire.  I suspect their purpose has more to do with the actual King of Winter than crowning Rob's successor.

Arya witnesses the conference and now there are FM at Winterfell, the Citadel and with LSH.

[Curled Finger]

40 minutes ago, LynnS said:

LOL!  This opens up a whole bunch of questions for me.  The man with plague face is the same man Arya sees at the FM conference and he seems important to the brotherhood hierarchy in some way.  He's is the one who questions Arya about who she is.

I don't think his appearance with the BwB is about a commission.  They serve Him of Many Faces and this has more to do with the conflict between ice and fire than a hit job.  So the purpose of the BwB is aligned with the FM agenda at this point.  This could be why LSH has replaced Beric and why Thoros is so ambivalent.  It wasn't his god who resurrected Beric in the first place.  LSH is a servant of the Stranger now and Brienne's comment to Gendry that these strangers are friends of no one (the faceless god) tells us that we are in the company of at least one faceless man.  

This may also explain why Lem is so brutal when he wears Sandor's helm.  It is essentially another kind of mask which contains the memory of Sandor's most brutal self.  As the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle; he has been shorn of that part of himself.   Recall that Arya has memories of the faces she wears.  

There may be some purpose for the Faceless Men of BwB to move to Winterfell and meet up with more of their number there.  The Shrouded Man sounds like a FM when he meets up with Theon and names him Kinslayer. It's reminiscent of the Alchemist asking Pate if he knows who he is yet.

From Theon's description of the strangers at Winterfell; at least two of them could be FM:  'yellow teeth' and 'forked beard'.  The man with the crooked nose is the Alchemist, now at the Citadel disguised as Pate. 

There is a larger plot at work here that involves the FM.  How Brienne will face this challenge is a big question. I doubt she will be allowed to put an end the LSH or the Hound if Him of Many Faces is involved .

Edit:  The raison d'etre of the brotherhood has changed.  They have become a plague on the surrounding population.

Oh, well that makes quite a lot of sense now.  I am particularly struck by your connecting the faces retaining their memories to the Hound's helm.  Wow again.  

I can see now why you feel the faceless men would infiltrate even the BWB.  But I'm not sold on their group being a plague on the area.   They seem to do a whole lot more good than bad, they just aggravate the guys in charge of things.   It's this Hound in the Salt Pans who's getting a bad rep.  

LynnS, this is really thinking outside the box.   Any chance you can post the idea as its own topic so it can get the attention it really deserves?  I'm tickled pink you chose to share the idea with us 1st and I'm sure you will get some great response for and against.    Again, just WOW. 

[Curled Finger]

45 minutes ago, divica said:

I won t comment on them being responsable for ressurecting cat because I don t really agree. I think that it was all beric because he she was ned's wife.

However, I think we have the answer for the rest in arya's povs. The faceless men do a lot of spying in braavos. So why wouldn t they do it in the rest of the world?

They need to know the state of the world and have contacts in order to conduct their assassinations and whatever plots the house of the undying might have. So it is quite funny and interesting to have random faceless men in several places spying for the house of undying.

LynnS's post was the very 1st time I've ever seen that idea bandied about.   Dang.  Now that I understand better I can see the merit in the connections.  I agree with you that the spy arm of the Faceless Men all over Westeros is ironic.  

I am still trying to understand blood magic and soul transfers and why there are magic swords in story.   I can't even begin to understand an alternate version of the resurrection of Catelyn.   I barely understand the 1st version.  

[LynnS]

5 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Oh, well that makes quite a lot of sense now.  I am particularly struck by your connecting the faces retaining their memories to the Hound's helm.  Wow again.  

I can see now why you feel the faceless men would infiltrate even the BWB.  But I'm not sold on their group being a plague on the area.   They seem to do a whole lot more good than bad, they just aggravate the guys in charge of things.   It's this Hound in the Salt Pans who's getting a bad rep.  

LynnS, this is really thinking outside the box.   Any chance you can post the idea as its own topic so it can get the attention it really deserves?  I'm tickled pink you chose to share the idea with us 1st and I'm sure you will get some great response for and against.    Again, just WOW. 

I don't really think it's outside the box more than making an observation, but sure.  

[divica]

4 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I think the appearance of Faceless Men in the company of the BwB and at Winterfell is quite significant to the larger plot. I disagree that this is some minor tidbit.  They are not just spies or assassins for hire.  I suspect their purpose has more to do with the actual King of Winter than crowning Rob's successor.

I would expect that they would be more interested in the dragons than the northern plot.

They were slaves of the dragonlords of old valyria right? So with magic and dragons returning I would expect they were more interested in finding dragon lore and eliminating any vestiges of the magic from old valyria than the others.

Besides, are they old enough to have some relation to the long night? I am not sure but I think not...

So, besides their motto what makes you think they are more related to the kings of winter than dragons or margic?

[Nevets]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

LOL!  This opens up a whole bunch of questions for me.  The man with plague face is the same man Arya sees at the FM conference and he seems important to the brotherhood hierarchy in some way.  He's is the one who questions Arya about who she is.

The man with the plague face at the Crossroads Inn was with the outlaws (Bloody Mummers), not the BwB.  He was also described as being massive, twice as big as the others.  I don't have the books handy (I'm on vacation) but I think that it was Biter, who we know was present, and has been described as being massive in bulk.  Also, I believe all the outlaws were killed upon Lem's arrival on the scene.

From my recollection, there was a man with a plague face at Cersei's "Walk of Shame".  If so, he would make a better candidate, especially since Arya's description of Plague Man didn't mention any unusual size.  In addition, plague faces probably aren't unheard of in the general population, either.

56 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I just reread Jamie's last 3 chapters from Feast.   He thinks about Brienne a lot.  He slaps Red Ronnet in the mouth for calling Brienne a name.  He even thinks about traveling the same places she may have before him.   I think her life matters to him far more than his own.  

You couldn't be more right about Jamie's mission, whatever it is.   We've got our timeline now.   We know Jamie disappears and Cersei hears nothing else about the Riverlands.   Could be Kevan coming in from the Westerlands just doesn't know yet...but it is strange.  I'm not sure what route the hostages going to the Westerlands is traveling, but if they are headed in from the north there is another piece of intel that simply may not have reached Kevan or Cersei.  However, that is an EXCELLENT mission idea!  Jamie would certainly be most useful in that. 

I'm waiting for Pod's gender reveal either way.  Hehehehehehe...

I have less than total faith in the timeline mentioned, so I take it as an approximation.  I do admit to being baffled as to why the BwB appears to be keeping him prisoner.  I think the Northern prisoners are still at the Twins, so maybe they are waiting for them to be sent to KL.  Jaime could then appear and say he is supposed to take over custody.  Probably would work better with the Freys than with Prester.

While I accept that Jaime regards Brienne's life higher than his own, I can't see him doing anything to cause major loss of life for anybody outside outlaws, etc.   Sacrificing himself in, for example, a trial by battle, I can totally see.

[Curled Finger]

52 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Everytime I think about Jaime I imagine him staring at his blank page in that white book. At the time, it felt as if it were a part of Jaime's personality coming to the fore. Of all his exploits and infamous endeavours it was the blank page that bothered him most. During his conversations with Cat, he seemed resigned to the Kingslayer tag and discussed his deeds with a somewhat refreshing openness.  

Then, in chapter 72 of asos, Jaime really sheds some light on things. A lot happens. He has that falling out with Cersei and it's clear that the two of them are no longer one. He's pushing to make their relationship known and she essentially rejects it on the grounds that they are not Targaryens. He's given up on his father too. We start to see Jaime as his own man. He gives Brienne the quest to 'return Sansa to safety'... ambiguous enough? I mean I don't want to go too far into it but would you describe LSH, the bwb or even the Riverlands in general as 'a safe place'? Where in Westeros could be considered safe? This may give us an insight into what Brienne thinks is best for Sansa as it's her interpretation of the vow that will matter. If it's 'safer' for Sansa to remain where she is then suffice to say her quest was over before it begun.

He then moves on to his white book. Another big insight into Jaime. He records his capture, release, recapture and maiming and safe escort by Brienne to KL. He then looks at the blank space remaining on his page and tells himself that he can fill it with 'whatever he chose'....  As of now he can add the successful negotiations of surrender but compare that to the exploits of Dayne and Selmy and I don't think Jaime would be satisfied. I think he may be interested in becoming the man who defeated 'The Hound'. I think Sandor would eat him for breakfast. But some clown in his helm would suffice. 

I cannot see Martin taking this opportunity away from Jaime just yet. It is within his MO to subvert the expectation, but it would be a poor choice and very anti-climactic to remove him from the game when he has this 'blank space' to fill. And overall, the version of Brienne we've come to know and love is a simple one. Most, if not all of her actions are motivated by honor and chivalry. I just can't see her going through with something malevolent, even if Pod's life is at stake.

In short, I don't think Brienne would lure a cripple to their death to save her own skin. I think it's because she wants to keep her oath to Jaime (hence the touching of the pommel during their meet) who - unlike the others she's sworn to - is actually alive. And she wants to keep Pod alive. So she has her work cut out for her - that's for sure. And that brings me back to Jaime's conversation with Cat whilst serving time as her prisoner. 
 

No matter what you do....

That was among the best portrayals of Jamie I've ever had the pleasure of reading, Ser.  Thank you for that.   It's easy to forget that Jamie is actively pursuing redemption.  I did pick up on Jamie mentioning Brienne on his page.  Is that foreshadowing perhaps?  

In that neither Jamie nor Brienne actually know where Sansa is, how can they judge her to be safer elsewhere?  We know she's reasonably safe, but no one else can know that.  Or can they? 

Jamie spends a lot of time in these chapters thinking about fighting the Hound.  We should be ready for it.  It's coming.  What will the BWB think if they see Jamie's hand or the bruises and cuts beneath his clothes?  He's trying so hard to be ready for this fight.  

I hadn't considered Jamie's own words to Cat in relation to Brienne or even what he will say should he meet LSH.   Brilliant catch.  Well done, Ser. 

[Curled Finger]

14 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I don't really think it's outside the box more than making an observation, but sure.  

We don't get a lot of ground breaking stuff anymore.   Post it!  I'll be there to support you. 

[LynnS]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

We don't get a lot of ground breaking stuff anymore.   Post it!  I'll be there to support you. 

That's more for you than anything, as discussed.

[LynnS]

12 minutes ago, divica said:

I would expect that they would be more interested in the dragons than the northern plot.

They were slaves of the dragonlords of old valyria right? So with magic and dragons returning I would expect they were more interested in finding dragon lore and eliminating any vestiges of the magic from old valyria than the others.

Besides, are they old enough to have some relation to the long night? I am not sure but I think not...

So, besides their motto what makes you think they are more related to the kings of winter than dragons or margic?

Sorry, not a discussion for this thread.

[LynnS]

9 minutes ago, Nevets said:

The man with the plague face at the Crossroads Inn was with the outlaws (Bloody Mummers), not the BwB.  He was also described as being massive, twice as big as the others.  I don't have the books handy (I'm on vacation) but I think that it was Biter, who we know was present, and has been described as being massive in bulk.  Also, I believe all the outlaws were killed upon Lem's arrival on the scene.

Thanks.

[Curled Finger]

6 minutes ago, Nevets said:

The man with the plague face at the Crossroads Inn was with the outlaws (Bloody Mummers), not the BwB.  He was also described as being massive, twice as big as the others.  I don't have the books handy (I'm on vacation) but I think that it was Biter, who we know was present, and has been described as being massive in bulk.  Also, I believe all the outlaws were killed upon Lem's arrival on the scene.

From my recollection, there was a man with a plague face at Cersei's "Walk of Shame".  If so, he would make a better candidate, especially since Arya's description of Plague Man didn't mention any unusual size.  In addition, plague faces probably aren't unheard of in the general population, either.

I have less than total faith in the timeline mentioned, so I take it as an approximation.  I do admit to being baffled as to why the BwB appears to be keeping him prisoner.  I think the Northern prisoners are still at the Twins, so maybe they are waiting for them to be sent to KL.  Jaime could then appear and say he is supposed to take over custody.  Probably would work better with the Freys than with Prester.

While I accept that Jaime regards Brienne's life higher than his own, I can't see him doing anything to cause major loss of life for anybody outside outlaws, etc.   Sacrificing himself in, for example, a trial by battle, I can totally see.

Yah this is a suspiciously long time for no news of Jamie.   But, Kevan is coming from the Westerlands, not the Riverlands--could be part of the problem?   Still, you would think he would mention Edmure and Jeyne at least so Cersei could say something catty about the Westerling's new residence?  

No, I can't see Jamie causing loss of life to innocents.  He spends a lot of time sort of mocking Tywin as he travel the Riverlands.   Mostly things Tywin did that were wrong, like setting his mad dogs and goats (paraphrase) loose on the Riverlands.    He thought the marriages Tywin set up were pretty bad, too.  So maybe he's not going to cause any real destruction.   Maybe he's just going to try to set things right in the region?  

 

[Curled Finger]

6 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Sorry, not a discussion for this thread.

Whew!   I wondered where I missed that.  stuff! 

[Curled Finger]

10 minutes ago, LynnS said:

That's more for you than anything, as discussed.

Well, if you do decide to post it separately, please let us know.  This is fascinating stuff. 

[Haus Berlin]

I'll still have to read through all your interesting posts, but until I've done that, I want to leave a first impression:

Like many of you I take "the hound" for Lem, but "the girl" for Brienne herself. She knows what Jaime expects, but as it turned out, Brienne has rather gotten herself into danger than to find the girl Sansa, who is somewhat safer now than Brienne is.

Brienne doesn't know that Jaime gave her this quest only because she had nothing left after Catelyn's death. On their way to KL he notices her state of utter hopelessness. His claim, that finding Sansa would restore his honour or reputation, sets Brienne finally off. But finding Sansa would not really improve his own situation, since he conspired in the king's name against is sister's order to find Joffrey's killer. Finding Sansa is truly more about finding her own sense in life. IMO this becomes evident in Brienne's first chapter, where she starts to look for "a girl" and ends up with "my sister".

I'm very interested about your ideas, so I'll go back reading. But this is my first impression: Brienne does not lie.

[Seams]

I can't think why or how Lady Stoneheart would send Jaime on a mission of any kind. In anticipating future plot developments, I would try to mine the foreshadowing GRRM has already laid out for us.

1) The trial-by-combat at the Eyrie. Lysa (on the weirwood throne) forced a Lannister to prove his innocence by killing a foe in combat. The foe was killed when the toppled stone statue of Alyssa Arryn pins him to the ground. Seems pretty clear that the stone woman (statue) represented Lady Stoneheart. (The leader of the BwB would also sit on a throne made of roots in their underground lair.) The man who died, Ser Vardis Egen, was described as, "ever my lord husband's good right hand." Jaime has no right hand. Does that mean that Ser Vardis symbolized his missing right hand? His golden replacement hand?

Because of this foreshadowing, one strong possible scenario is that Jaime will be forced into a trial-by-combat to account for his crimes. The BwB did this to The Hound. As Curled Finger points out, Jaime has been itchin' for a fight with The Hound. Maybe we will see that fight occur at the direction of LSH. (Although I can't think of a reason for The Hound to return to the BwB, unless it is to retrieve the tournament winnings they took from him.)

Who would play the role of Bronn in a new trial by combat? Brienne? The Hound? Or is that Jaime's role? GRRM never seems to give straight equivalents when he uses foreshadowing or symbolism, so we may see a blended or opposite character in each role.

2) The Hand's Tourney. I think there was a lot of foreshadowing in the Hand's Tourney that may help to narrow our guesses about these converging story arcs. The match-ups, victories and defeats in tournaments are symbolic of future plot developments in ASOIAF.

The Hound is eventually declared the overall winner of the tournament when he steps in to defend Ser Loras from Ser Gregor's violence after the semi-final joust. Ser Loras had defeated Ser Gregor and The Hound had defeated Jaime Lannister in the semi-finals.

The other victors are a commoner named Anguy (from the Dornish Marches) in the archery and Thoros of Myr in the melee. Anguy and Thoros both join the BwB. They both seem to be part of the faction that splits off from the BwB after Ser Beric gives way to Lady Stoneheart.

The symbolism of Jaime's missing hand and the Hand's Tourney could be indicative of who the upcoming events with the BwB.

3) Hoster the Hostage. Hoster has the same name as Catelyn Tully's father. Catelyn slept in her father's ornately-carved bed symbolizing a river. Is this Blackwood boy a symbolic rebirth of Lord Hoster Tully? What does it mean that he is Jaime's hostage?

Jaime's new, bookish traveling companion seems like a better companion for Tyrion except he is seven feet tall and, as @TheThreeEyedCow points out, Jaime has a new interest in a book after returning from captivity and having his arm maimed.

There may be something to the earlier speculation that Catelyn is putting herself at the head of Robb's would-be kingdom, even if her purpose in doing so is to command resources for revenge, not to rule. Her last words asked that her killer not cut her hair, which I believe is symbolic of her desire to defend her and Ned's heirs. Robb's crown was made at Riverrun, and Catelyn introduced him to the tomb of Tristifer, who was the King of the Rivers and the Hills. Maybe this is the realm Catelyn sees herself commanding and putting to work to either rescue or avenge her children.

4) Cersei's champion. Cersei is imprisoned by the High Sparrow, whose sparrows are allied in some ways with the BwB. Cersei begs Jaime to come back to King's Landing to defend her in a Trial by Combat. Jaime burns her letter. Instead, it appears that she will be defended by Ser Robert Strong, the reborn, headless (?) Gregor Clegane. So Jaime and Ser Robert Strong are being compared, right? They were both candidates for Cersei's champion, so they might be compared on that basis.

But what if we are supposed to compare Cersei and Jaime, who are supposed to be nearly identical twins except that they are of different genders? Perhaps Jaime's three-week-absence (thank you for the timeline work, everyone) is supposed to be like Cersei's imprisonment in the dungeon of Baelor's Sept. Maybe he is being held in a "dungeon" and deprived of sleep in an attempt to get him to confess his sins. If so, he might soon need a champion. Who would be comparable to Ser Robert Strong without a head? How about The Hound without a helmet?

5) Vargo Hoat. Gregor Clegane keeps reappearing in a lot of the events that I think could foreshadow Jaime and/or Brienne's future. After Vargo Hoat's Brave Companions chopped off Jaime's arm, Ser Gregor inflicted a lengthy torture on Hoat as payback from Tywin Lannister. Could the torture of Hoat foreshadow the fate of Jaime, if the BwB and Lady Stoneheart get a hold of him? Would LSH direct her followers to chop off Jaime's other arm? He already confessed to pushing Bran off the wall at Winterfell. Would she like to see Jaime lose his legs?

Jaime rescued Brienne from Vargo Hoat's bear pit where she had been forced to defend herself with a blunt blade instead of a real sword. Is it now her turn to rescue him?

It's interesting to speculate about what LSH might do next, or how Jaime might figure into her plans. To me, the best speculation has to tie into things we already know about the characters and the combinations of events the author has laid out in earlier scenes.

[Curled Finger]

50 minutes ago, Haus Berlin said:

I'll still have to read through all your interesting posts, but until I've done that, I want to leave a first impression:

Like many of you I take "the hound" for Lem, but "the girl" for Brienne herself. She knows what Jaime expects, but as it turned out, Brienne has rather gotten herself into danger than to find the girl Sansa, who is somewhat safer now than Brienne is.

Brienne doesn't know that Jaime gave her this quest only because she had nothing left after Catelyn's death. On their way to KL he notices her state of utter hopelessness. His claim, that finding Sansa would restore his honour or reputation, sets Brienne finally off. But finding Sansa would not really improve his own situation, since he conspired in the king's name against is sister's order to find Joffrey's killer. Finding Sansa is truly more about finding her own sense in life. IMO this becomes evident in Brienne's first chapter, where she starts to look for "a girl" and ends up with "my sister".

I'm very interested about your ideas, so I'll go back reading. But this is my first impression: Brienne does not lie.

Welcome Haus Berlin, welcome to the discussion.  There are some really interesting posts herein.  You made some interesting statements yourself, Ser.   What is this Jamie only gave Brienne the quest because she was hopeless?  Are you thinking that Jamie didn't take his own part in the vows seriously?   He was no longer bound?  As you read through you will find that I'm not so quick on the uptake.   Not a challenge, I'm just trying to understand.  Never occurred to me Jamie felt his vows forfeit in Catelyn's death.  Or that Brienne had no direction resulting in a loss of identity.   Fascinating.  

I hope you will read through.  We are trying to determine what LSH wants as much as anything else.   We've had some really good ideas about Brienne's lies and/or truth to Jamie.  I don't base my thoughts off other people's ideas, but those ideas often open up avenues of thought I simply never considered.   I'm really looking forward to your thoughts here.   Thank you for joining us, Ser.  It is an honor to have your 1st post here in this discussion.