Bloodstone Emperor

Who would be the best King from the WoFK

85 posts in this topic

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Ok they've all inherited regions Stannis having inherited the poorest doesn't in it of itself count as experience with economics.

You're right, it does not. It does contribute to the fact that Stannis's policies did not bankrupt even one of the poorest regions. For a business as lucrative as prostitution, apparently, it doesn't seem that important. 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Stannis took a loan for money for his war effort, not to stabilize an economy.

I know. Point is he partook in an economic activity. Like Jon. I also place Jon above Robb and Joffery. For the same reason. I'm also not going to place some random character above Stannis militarily, since the random character hasn't actually performed any militaristic feats, but hey, they might actually know more! 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

The only real instance we can point of him doing something with relation to buisness, is banning a very lucrative one.

All kinds of lucrative things are banned. Doesn't mean the economic consequences haven't been taken into account. For example, cannabis. Imagine the tax income! 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 Honestly, it's woefully unfair Stannis is the best in regards to economics when we hadn't actually seen what the other 3 were capable of and the only thing we see of Stannis was something that would obviously hurt the economy.

I'd allow Renly. Joffery, who hasn't done anything other than benefit from the golden spoon inserted into his mouth? Nah. Robb who hasn't actually done anything other than campaigning? Nah. They need to have actually done something. Or at least have ruled a region long enough so that we can confer experience. 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Dany is a queen. Sorry that's playing semantics. A lord is given his power power because of his place in the family to which he is from.

Succession. You're thinking of succession. I pointed out that your place in a family is not where authority comes from. For example, Warden of the East. 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Yes there are a handful (I do mean you could literaly count them on you fingers), of lords who were elevated toward their position because some valor service, but for the rest they were given this right for no other reason than the position they have from the family they are from.

Yes, though it can be removed. Like we have seen in the books. 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

A violation of law.

A king directing who his successor will be? 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

That could be due to his status as a minor no? If not, Joffery would still have the authority to dismiss the council and put in place sychopant-bigger sychopants

Removing someone from a council position, especially if that someone happens to be fairly important, carries about the same amount of weight as granted them a council position. Recall in Dance how Kevan granted the Reach lords council positions to help alleviate conflict. No one would care about the position if it was simply an advisory body. 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

In a few extremely rare cases a peasant having commited a tremendous service to the liege lord of his realm had been granted the title of lord.

Still an example! 

On 1/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

The other 99.9999999999% got it because of their position in the family to which they are from. Joffery was not granted his kingship (and all the rights that go along with it), because of anything he personally did he was granted it because he seemed to be the oldest living trueborn son of Robert Baratheon.

Well, that's obvious enough. This is how monarchies with primogeniture work. Oldest daughters may also inherit in monarchies (Dorne). You also have elective monarchies (Iron Islands). Law decides how this works. And people change the law, specifically the monarch and/or a council. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Seeeyeare said:

ight, it does not. It does contribute to the fact that Stannis's policies did not bankrupt even one of the poorest regions. For a business as lucrative as prostitution, apparently, it doesn't seem that important. 

Again. We don't know how badly it actually effected the economy. Doubtless anyone would suggest reinstating to solve some of the finacel woes knowing Stannis's feelings regarding it.

 

2 hours ago, Seeeyeare said:

I know. Point is he partook in an economic activity. Like Jon. I also place Jon above Robb and Joffery. For the same reason. I'm also not going to place some random character above Stannis militarily, since the random character hasn't actually performed any militaristic feats, but hey, they might actually know more! 

Quote

Borrowing money to fund his war.

Just doing anything involving money isn't a count of actual experience.

Doudbtless Robb was loaned money as an allowance getting someone to donate money to you is not a point in favor towards you knowing how to use it. I'm not going place a drunken literate peasant above by virtue of having taken a loan to buy more alcohol.

2 hours ago, Seeeyeare said:

A king directing who his successor will be? 

Apologies I misread the statement. Of course a king can name his heir-that doesn't mean another could not be seen to have a superior claim based on the position in their family. A first true born son can still be seen as having precedent over a daughter even if picked. 

2 hours ago, Seeeyeare said:

Yes, though it can be removed. Like we have seen in the books. 

Yes, still doesn't change the fact they were only really granted in the first place because of their place in their family.

 

2 hours ago, Seeeyeare said:

Succession. You're thinking of succession. I pointed out that your place in a family is not where authority comes from. For example, Warden of the East. 

Quote

Yes, primogeniture is how a noble family decides which son is the lit'd of their house. They aren't picked for any other reason.

 

2 hours ago, Seeeyeare said:

e from a council position, especially if that someone happens to be fairly important, carries about the same amount of weight as granted them a council position. Recall in Dance how Kevan granted the Reach lords council positions to help alleviate conflict. No one would care about the position if it was simply an advisory body. 

Quote

That doesn't really have any relevance to what I said. I mean if it just an advisorey position it still a great honor to be hand selected to help the king govern the entire realm, and places you in a position of having direct influence with him. But the question whether or not Joffery can simply replace the small council with people who will always agree with him even as a minor; apparently yes? Would it be wise? Not really. Could he legally do it? Perhaps.

bvious enough. This is how monarchies with primogeniture work. Oldest daughters may also inherit in monarchies (Dorne). You also have elective monarchies (Iron Islands). Law decides how this works. And people change the law, specifically the monarch and/or a council. 

 

Yes. 
 

  •  
Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Renly certainly had the charisma and understood how people worked and how to use politics to get what he wanted. Though by his admission his claim was based on nothing more than a selfish desire for power, rather than any lawful merit or moral right. I think that attitude would've bled over into his rule, and he had the potential to become a different version of Robert. Honestly, part of me just thinks he concocted the scheme with Loras so they could be together. Corruption would seem to be destined to flourish under his rule as it did Robert's. His military instincts didn't seem to be all that great either, despite his overwhelming force he never was able to bring it to fully bear against anyone.

Why do people keep saying this? We're literally told his motivation in the book and its confirmed by Cersei:

Lord Renly took a step back, taut as a bowstring. "Every moment you delay gives Cersei another moment to prepare. By the time Robert dies, it may be too late … for both of us."
"Then we should pray that Robert does not die."
"Small chance of that," said Renly.
"Sometimes the gods are merciful."
"The Lannisters are not." Lord Renly turned away and went back across the moat, to the tower where his brother lay dying.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"He was old, yes, but a good man still. I hope he has not come to harm. The Lannisters are great fools." They climbed a few more steps. "On the night of Robert's death, I offered your husband a hundred swords and urged him to take Joffrey into his power. Had he listened, he would be regent today, and there would have been no need for me to claim the throne."
"Ned refused you." She did not have to be told.
"He had sworn to protect Robert's children," Renly said. "I lacked the strength to act alone, so when Lord Eddard turned me away, I had no choice but to flee. Had I stayed, I knew the queen would see to it that I did not long outlive my brother."
-------------------
His meddling had forced her (Cersei) to rid herself of Robert sooner than she would have liked, before she could deal with his pestilential brothers.
 
He tries two different ways to force Cersei out before she kills him that don't involve increase to his power or becoming king and then finally declares himself king because it's the best way to protect himself from Cersei and the Lannisters. Joff hates him too.
 
And for military tactics, but letting his opponents batter each other down and making them easier to fight seems like decent strategy to me (and classic tenets of war). If you speak of SE, well I can see the small elements he gives up from a tactics standpoint (fighting into the sunlight, not waiting for infantry, et al) but occasionally smashing something with a large hammer is useful from an strategic and political standpoint. Personally I would have sent Tarly or someone to relieve SE while I continued my march to KL but, minus a shadow baby which was heretofore unknown in Westeros, the plan was going to work. Stannis had neither the defensive positioning nor the fortifications to withstand a force 4x - 5x times bigger and better armed and armored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2018 at 10:37 AM, Light a wight tonight said:

A smith has more to do than forge weapons. 

Copper is the major component in bronze, one of the more useful materials then and now. Iron may be soft for weapons but it has a lot of other uses. A smith should know that, and certainly not conflate cast iron with iron in its more malleable form.

This is just one more of GRRM's slips, like calling a bird a hawk and a falcon in the same paragraph.

Absolutely! Smiths have other tasks as well, but Noye was the castlesmith of Storms End. A castlesmith is a specific profession which is responsible for the weapons and armor of his lord and his men-at-arms.

And as for copper, yes it is a main component in bronze. But let's see the main uses of bronze in medieval times: coin, and mint; Mirrors; Sculptures. These are pretty specific uses, of which I believe none are one of Noye's tasks. 

Brass bronze (copper and zinc) is often used as a decorative metal. Funts and fountains used by churches use brass, and exquisite pitchers. While I concur that it adds to the monetary value of the metal, it still has little value to a weaponsmith as Donal Noye. 

Sorry for the delayed answer btw, been busy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2018 at 8:16 PM, Ascension of the Metatron said:

They let their own personal ambition tear the kingdom apart.  All of them can be blamed but let me pick on Robb to use an example.  Robb rebelled against his king because he felt Dad got the shaft.  That's not a good reason to march an army south just to protect one Stark.  Robb should have crawled to King's Landing to make peace with his king even if it meant risking his life and his family.  I will grant that it is easy for me to say this because I don't care for the Starks.  The life of the Starks is not worth going to war over.   

It was partly to defend the Tullys against the Lannister raiders but Cat was partly to blame for that.  Cat risked war to get justice for her son, Tywin started a war to get his son back.  I don't even think Tywin cared at all about Tyrion's guilt.  He would have done it even if Tyrion killed all of the Stark children.  Two sons is not worth the number of lives it costs but that's how they think.  It's stupidity but they all do that.  Going years back to Brandon and Lyanna.  Brandon would behave as he did partly to save face even if Lyanna had gone along willingly with who he thinks she did, in this case he thinks Rhaegar.  It's a really bad philosophy but it is the result of being too proud.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now