lAPPYc

Is Jon Snow going to get a dragon?

22 posts in this topic

In ADWD, Jon has a dream:

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Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist...

 

So we can assume that Jon is going to wield a burning sword. So now imagine our hero soaring high above the battlefield, finally in his rightful place; atop a dragon(assuming that R+L = J). It is the moment of judgment, and Westeros has united behind its rightful king in its last desperate claim to life. In the battle for dawn, Jon's dragon is breathing fire and melting the creatures of Winter to dew wherever it can find them. The sight of their king in the sky is giving his soldiers courage, and they are screaming "For Winterfell" as they kill the Other's and seek out their mothers. Jon's blade is burning red hot in his fist, the flames whipping as his dragon challenges the winds of winter, and he is cutting down the wights and setting them afire left and...

Yeah. You see the problem? This whole charade that introduces the burning swords to us falls upon its face from dragonhigh if Jon ever gets a dragon. That sword is no use to him from the sky unless he can use it as a boomerang. Of course, he could land the dragon, but the dragonriders strap themselves on the saddles of the dragons, so if Jon starts unstrapping himself in the midst of the battle, half the battle will be over by the time he dismounts. And even when he dismounts before the kingdom gets overrun by the ice spiders, an Other simply needs to stand below where he is jumping, its spear upraised, pointy end first so it will get stuck where the sun don't shine. I know what you're thinking, Jon will just dive headfirst, holding his awesome, burning sword before him. But that will probably only result in the flames from the swords burning his face off as they whip upwards. But even if this doesn't happen, our guy is no gymnast, and he will need time to get up, and that's a guaranteed death in a battlefield. Worst case scenario being that his dragon itself tramples him to death.

And even if all of this doesn't happen, and he dismounts without an ice spider swallowing him midjump, and gets up quickly with some badass moves, what was the point of the dragon if he just meant to dismount? What will the dragon do now? Grab a popcorn? A dragon cannot eat popcorn, it is known. The corns will just burst with heat. It militarily stupid to give a lightbringer wielding man a dragon.

Edited by lAPPYc

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The dragons could be the lightbringer themselves...

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Xaro went on, "... When your dragons were small they were a wonder. Grown, they are death and devastation, a flaming sword above the world."

Daenerys III, Dance 16

The mother of dragons will die, and Jon will ride Balerion come again...

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Robb looked relieved. ... "The next time I see you, you'll be all in black."

Jon forced himself to smile back. "It was always my color."

Jon II, Game 10

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15 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The dragons could be the lightbringer themselves...

Interesting. I have always held that the conception of the Night's Watch was supposed to be the replacement for the single burning sword of the last hero - you know, all 'I am the sword in the darkness... I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn,' - and we will all get a laugh at Melisandre's foolishness in the end(not like we aren't already laughing at her)

If the dragons are lightbringer however, then as I pointed out, all this charade of hyping the literal burning swords like the one Beric has goes belly up. But knowing GRRM, all that might have just been a misdirection tool. He had to revive Beric to foreshadow Jon's rebirth, so he decided to give him a burning sword as well...

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I am utterly convinced that he'll get hold of a dragon and that he and Danaerys will fight the second Dance of the Dragons after the Others have been defeated.

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6 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Interesting. I have always held that the conception of the Night's Watch was supposed to be the replacement for the single burning sword of the last hero - you know, all 'I am the sword in the darkness... I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn,' - and we will all get a laugh at Melisandre's foolishness in the end(not like we aren't already laughing at her)

If the dragons are lightbringer however, then as I pointed out, all this charade of hyping the literal burning swords like the one Beric has goes belly up. But knowing GRRM, all that might have just been a misdirection tool. He had to revive Beric to foreshadow Jon's rebirth, so he decided to give him a burning sword as well...

When I read Storm the first time I was quite convinced that Beric was Azor Ahai reborn until I read the Epilogue. 

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1 hour ago, LionoftheWest said:

I am utterly convinced that he'll get hold of a dragon and that he and Danaerys will fight the second Dance of the Dragons after the Others have been defeated.

And the third? 

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26 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

And the third? 

The third dragon? I have no idea but perhaps it will be Tyrion, as many expect, who will have to pick between the reborn Blacks and Greens, as he'll have ties with both Jon and Danaerys.

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20 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

The third dragon? I have no idea but perhaps it will be Tyrion, as many expect, who will have to pick between the reborn Blacks and Greens, as he'll have ties with both Jon and Danaerys.

And all three of them will join forces to fight the Others? Will there be any other riders, or will those three be the first and the last? Is that what, "The dragon has three heads," is all about? 

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7 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

And all three of them will join forces to fight the Others? Will there be any other riders, or will those three be the first and the last? Is that what, "The dragon has three heads," is all about? 

All three of them will join against the Others, but there will strains which will break loose after the Others are vanquished. I believe those will be the only three riders but that only a single rider, if anyone, will remain at the end of the books.

So yes, I will say that they are three heads of the dragon, and I can see Danaerys actually entrusting them with dragons, before the heads of the dragon will tear each other apart like they so often have.

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59 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

And the third? 

Stannis will take the third and go fight the Long Night while Dany and Jon fight it out between them and die Aemond and Daemon style, you know uncle to nephew then and aunt to nephew now.

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24 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

All three of them will join against the Others, but there will strains which will break loose after the Others are vanquished. I believe those will be the only three riders but that only a single rider, if anyone, will remain at the end of the books.

So yes, I will say that they are three heads of the dragon, and I can see Danaerys actually entrusting them with dragons, before the heads of the dragon will tear each other apart like they so often have.

So the second dance of the dragons will follow the coming war for the dawn? 

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1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So the second dance of the dragons will follow the coming war for the dawn? 

That's what I think, yes.

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3 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

That's what I think, yes.

Who takes out Cersei and her cubs? How do Stannis, Euron, and Aegon fit into the end game? 

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If we're going with a majority view then Aegon will take care of the dirty work and kill Cersei and his kids before being taken out by Danaerys who won't have to dirty her hands while Stannis is killed by Ramsay in the North.

Euron will be one of the powers that takes a side in the Second Dance of Dragons.

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I think that Jon will eventually become dragonrider. And his dragon will be Viserion.

My posts on topic of dragons/three dragon heads from another thread:

 

AGOT, chapters of Daenerys, where dragons or eggs are mentioned/present (the text in bold is important part of them):

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Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. “Khaleesi,” Jhiqui said, “what is wrong? Are you sick?”

“I was,” she answered, standing over the dragon’s eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shell. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers…or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously.

 

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Dany gave the silver over to the slaves for grooming and entered her tent. It was cool and dim beneath the silk. As she let the door flap close behind her, Dany saw a finger of dusty red light reach out to touch her dragon’s eggs across the tent. For an instant a thousand droplets of scarlet flame swam before her eyes. She blinked, and they were gone.

Stone, she told herself. They are only stone, even Illyrio said so, the dragons are all dead. She put her palm against the black egg, fingers spread gently across the curve of the shell. The stone was warm. Almost hot. “The sun,” Dany whispered. “The sun warmed them as they rode.”

 

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“I’m not hungry,” Dany said sadly. She was suddenly very tired. “Share the food among yourselves, and send some to Ser Jorah, if you would.” After a moment she added, “Please, bring me one of the dragon’s eggs.”

Irri fetched the egg with the deep green shell, bronze flecks shining amid its scales as she turned it in her small hands. Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside.

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her…as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. “You are the dragon,” Dany whispered to him, “the true dragon. I know it. I know it.” And she smiled, and went to sleep dreaming of home.

 

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“Bring me…egg…dragon’s egg…please…” Her lashes turned to lead, and she was too weary to hold them up.

When she woke the third time, a shaft of golden sunlight was pouring through the smoke hole of the tent, and her arms were wrapped around a dragon’s egg. It was the pale one, its scales the color of butter cream, veined with whorls of gold and bronze, and Dany could feel the heat of it. Beneath her bedsilks, a fine sheen of perspiration covered her bare skin. Dragondew, she thought. Her fingers trailed lightly across the surface of the shell, tracing the wisps of gold, and deep in the stone she felt something twist and stretch in response. It did not frighten her. All her fear was gone, burned away.

 

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She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs.

First dragon egg that became alive - black and scarlet. Black dragon came to Dany in her dream, and from then on black egg became hot. She placed black egg near Drogo's heart, and later black dragon that hatched from it, she named Drogon. She bonded with this dragon, and eventually became his rider.

Second egg that became alive - green with bronze. The child in her belly reacted to that egg. They bonded (Rhaego and Rhaegel). Dany placed that egg near Drogo's head, and coiled his braid around it - probably there's some sort of symbolism in this gesture, some sort of connection between Drogo never being defeated, his braid never being cut, and his son being prophesied to become the stallion who mounts the world. She named green and bronze dragon Rhaegel, same as her son Rhaego, in honor of her brother Rhaegar.

Third egg became alive after Dany lost her family (Drogo became catatonic, and Rhaego was kidnapped <- it's my theory, not a fact) - white, gold and bronze. She placed this egg between Drogo's legs. This dragon she named Viserion, in honor of her brother Viserys, who thought that he was rightful King of 7K, and last Targaryen dragon. Combination of egg's coloring, dragon's name, egg's placement in funeral pyre, and that dragon's placing after it hatched, indicate that third dragonrider will be of First Men origin (bronze), real rightful King of 7K (gold), and Snow (white), and he will also become Dany's lover or husband (because that egg was placed between Drogo's legs, and the dragon that hatched from it, was the first to hatch (same as Jon was born first, prior Dany and Rhaego), and this dragon (the white one) after hatching was suckling at her left breast, i.e. near her heart. The dragon that hatched from first (placed first on funeral pyre) egg, black dragon, she placed that egg near Drogo's heart, and later the dragon that hatched from it, she named Drogo, and this dragon was always the most dear to her).

Thus third head of the dragon is Jon Snow, who is actually son of Rhaegar Targaryen.

Dany, Rhaego and Jon are three heads of the dragon.

 

Rhaegar said in Dany's vision, that there should be one more. Was it actually said anywhere in the books, that first head is Rhaenys?

Rhaegar did said that Aegon is second. Though it doesn't mean that first head is Rhaenys. Could be that Rhaegar thought, that he himself was first head. And third is Jon.

Aemon said that Rhaegar used to think, that he was the Prince that was promised, but later he changed his mind. Which doesn't mean that he also thought, that he is not one of dragon heads. We see in Dany's vision, that Rhaegar thought, at that point in time, that his son Aegon was one of dragon heads, second, AND the Prince that was promised.

Thus there should be three "Targaryens", three heads of the dragon, but one of them, the middle one, will also be the Prince that was promised. One of them will be BOTH things - dragon's head and Prince. And Rhaegar thought that it was Aegon. Though he was wrong. He was wrong about both things - him being first head, and Aegon being the second and the Prince. Though he was correct about one thing - the third head is his son Jon Snow.

And first head is actually Dany.

In the same vision she saw Rhaegar in his ruby armor, and when she lifted his helm's visor, she saw there her own face. Which means that Dany herself is first head of the dragon. Not Rhaegar, she is first. And not Rhaegar's son is the second and the Prince. It's Dany's son. Rhaego. The Prince that was promised, and the stallion that will mount the world. And third head is still Jon.

Also the timing of that vision is also a hint - Dany gave birth to her son Rhaego, and after that in her vision Rhaegar told her - there must be one more. That part of vision wasn't from the past, it was from present time. Rhaegar didn't said in the past, that there should be one more, i.e. he is first, his son Aegon is second and the Prince, and there should be third. Actually it meant that Dany is first, she gave birth to her son, who is second and the Prince, and Rhaegar in her vision was speaking to her in the PRESENT, saying to her that there should be one more AFTER Rhaego.

Jon is third head of the dragon, even though he was born before Dany and before Rhaego. But prior his death he was a Snow and Stark, and he will become Targaryen only when he will be revived. He will be reborn as Targaryen, his dragon life will begin only after that. So even though he was born first, the dragon's head he will become the last.

Viserion's egg hatched first:

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She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking.

The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall Dany heard women shriek and children cry out in wonder.

Only death can pay for life.

And there came a second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror, and Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don’t you see? Don’t you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world.

When the fire died at last and the ground became cool enough to walk upon, Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion. She was naked, covered with soot, her clothes turned to ash, her beautiful hair all crisped away…yet she was unhurt.

The cream-and-gold dragon was suckling at her left breast, the green-and-bronze at the right.

Her arms cradled them close. The black-and-scarlet beast was draped across her shoulders, its long sinuous neck coiled under her chin. When it saw Jorah, it raised its head and looked at him with eyes as red as coals.

Based on placement of dragons, after they hatched, the first one (we know it was white egg, because after first crack, Dany saw broken chunk of its shell) was Viserion (and this dragon was sucking milk from Dany's left breast), next hatched Rhaegel (because this dragon was sucking milk from Dany's right breast), and last hatched Drogon (we know this because when he hatched, both breasts were already occupied ^_^ so the black dragon draped himself across Dany's shoulders. And also black egg was the biggest out of three, so it's logical to assume that its shell was also the thickest, thus it needed the most time and amount of heat to hatch.).

In funeral pyre Dany has placed Drogon's egg on left side of Drogo, close to his heart, and Viserion's egg between Drogo's legs. And the dragon from second egg ended up near her own heart. Which is another clue that Viserion's rider will be Dany's lover/husband.

First was initiated black egg, then green and bronze, and last was pale egg. But last egg hatched first.

Viserion's egg became alive third, but hatched first. So Jon was born first, but will become dragonrider third out of them.

There were also indications that Drogon will be Dany's dragon:

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A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

“…wake the dragon…”

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings.

 

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The black-and-scarlet beast was draped across her shoulders

When it was sitting on her back, it looked like Dany has wings. Black dragon became her wings, nearly literally, because later she became Drogon's dragonrider.

 

There's also connection between:

order in which three dragon egg's became initiated (became alive, hot, something started moving inside) - 1. black, 2. green and bronze, 3. white, gold and bronze;

order in which Dany placed those eggs in funeral pyre - 1. black near Drogo's heart, 2. green and bronze near his head, coiled around by his braid, 3. white, gold and bronze between Drogo's legs;

order in which they hatched - 1. white, gold and bronze, 2. green and bronze, 3. black;

order in which they were born - 1. Jon, 2 Dany, 3 Rhaego;

and order in which they will become dragonriders/three heads of the dragon - 1. Dany, 2. Rhaego, 3 Jon;  or Jon will be second and Rhaego will be third.

Could be that Dany is first head of the dragon, and she is also Nissa Nissa. Her son Rhaego is second head of the dragon, the Prince that was promised, and the stallion that will mount the world. And Jon is third head of the dragon, and Azor Ahai.

Edited by Megorova

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6 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

If we're going with a majority view then Aegon will take care of the dirty work and kill Cersei and his kids before being taken out by Danaerys who won't have to dirty her hands while Stannis is killed by Ramsay in the North.

Euron will be one of the powers that takes a side in the Second Dance of Dragons.

I am not asking about the majority view. I am interested to know your view. :)

Ok, so Ramsay takes out Roose and Stannis in the North, and then Jon takes out Ramsay? And Aegon takes out Cersei and her allies in the south, before Daenerys takes out him in the second dance of the dragons, with Euron aligning with one or the other and probably not surviving? Then Daenerys and her twisted little monkey demon fly north to fight the Others before turning on each other? 

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

and Rhaego was kidnapped <- it's my theory

Can you post a link to this theory? I have read a version of this theory when it was pointing toward Jon being the rider of Viserion, but the Rhaego part I haven't seen. I am essentially confused as to how and when Rhaego will get his dragon, since right now he is barely two years old. When he finished ASoS, GRRM's intentions were to take a few years gap between ASoS and the next book's plot, and this would have been perfectly possible if he had gone in that direction. But he didn't(Which is why he is stuck now, I think), and now I don't see how it will be possible for Rhaego to be old enough before the story ends. Would love to read your theory.

I have always read that Rhaegar considered Rhaenys one of the heads of the dragon(This is the first time I am reading of an order of heads, first, second and third, etc). Just like it is never told in the books that he didn't consider Rhaenys one of the heads, it is never revealed that he considered himself to be one either. Just wanted to point that out, I know that it doesn't really change your theory.

I have never believed that to be a dragon you have to ride a dragon. The Bloodraven tells Dunk that he saw a dragon being born at Whitehalls, while really, Egg never rode a dragon. That didn't make them any less of dragons. Even if Jon is one of the heads of the dragon, I don't think that makes him obligated to ride the dragon. My post was purely from a militaristic point of view. Don't forget that when Daenerys reaches Westeros, she most possibly has Tyrion and Varys as her advisors. And she knows how to listen to her councilors. Her councilors/strategists are sure to point out to her that Jon's burning sword becomes redundant.

You also make some interesting points, however, about his connection to Viserion. But I still think that Jon himself will not want his burning sword to become redundant. So if Jon gets the dragon, I think he has to be the last possible choice for it.(Unless the dragon itself is lightbringer, like Lost Melnibonean pointed out).

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2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I am not asking about the majority view. I am interested to know your view. :)

Ok, so Ramsay takes out Roose and Stannis in the North, and then Jon takes out Ramsay? And Aegon takes out Cersei and her allies in the south, before Daenerys takes out him in the second dance of the dragons, with Euron aligning with one or the other and probably not surviving? Then Daenerys and her twisted little monkey demon fly north to fight the Others before turning on each other? 

Not really. What I think will happen is just for House Lannister and the Lannisters to make it through in one form or another.

Targaryen Restoration - Given GRRM's love for the Targaryen which I've heard is his favorite House I think that this scenario is the most likely.

Ramsay kills Stannis and then Roose and is then taken out by Zombie Jon. At the same time, roughly give or take, Aegon takes out the Baratheon dynasty and does the dirty deeds of killing Tommen and Myrcelle and killing loads of, to the reader, sympathic characters that would oppose the Targaryen return. Afterward Danaerys shows up and she overtakes Aegon and can capitalize on his actions without gaining the dirt on her hands like he did.

Then the Others breaks through and Jon reaches out to Danaerys. With Tyrion is an mediator the two united against the Others and given sudden revelations about familiarity between the two Jon gets a dragon, and so does Tyrion as he's one of the few with knowledge to tame a dragon. The three of them then goes North to destroy the Others so. But during this fight with the Others I expect the two camps, those pressing for Jon or for Danaerys to become increasingly strained with each other and then strain will gradually reach Jon and Danaerys.

After the threat to human survival in Westeros is removed Jon and Danaerys has nothing binding them together and so are both pushed as well as volunteerily walk into war with each other about the Iron Throne. This war, between Danaerys and Jon, is what will make the Second Dance of Dragons and it is there that Tyrion will decide for the Greens or the Blacks and his choice. Who will win? I have no clue but I think it will be a blast to read. And its here that Euron will make his choice of whom to support.

 

Edited by LionoftheWest
Removed some junk.

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8 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Can you post a link to this theory? I have read a version of this theory when it was pointing toward Jon being the rider of Viserion, but the Rhaego part I haven't seen.

I posted it a few weeks ago, so can't find it now. The main point was that most likely Rhaego is alive, and he was taken to Asshai. Aside from that witch Mirri, no one else saw the baby, after it was born. Even Jorah. And Dany's maids were too afraid to enter that tent, while Mirri was performing there blood magic. And even though Jorah did carryed Dany inside, it's unlikely that he stayed with them in that tent, while Dany was giving birth. Because he's a man, and that wasn't like it is in modern times, when some husbands stay with their wifes thru childbirth. The baby supposedly turned into maggots, and those maggots also vanished. How convinient. No body, no crime. No kidnapping.

After Jorah brought her into Drogo's tent, and she lost consciousness, she saw her son, when he was grown up. He had burning heart, which is symbol of the Prince that was promised (Stannis Baratheon, that thinks that he is Azor Ahai, is using burning heart as his banner/sigil). And fire was coming out of his mouth -> where else do we have characters of ASOIAF with fire in their mouth? -> Red Priests that serve to Lord of Light, to God R'hllor in Temple of Asshai, and they perform fire kiss.

So Rhaego was taken to Asshai by Quaithe. And he was given to Quaithe by Mirri, who in her youth trained in Asshai, to use shadowbinding, and blood magic, and one of her teachers was maester Marwyn, who is currently going to Meereen to Dany.

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She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo’s copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.

“…want to wake the dragon…”

Rhaegel, while he was still in egg (green and bronze), reacted to baby in Dany's belly, and the baby also started to move inside her, when she was lying in bed, holding that egg close to her body.

I think that there's connection/foreshadowing between coloring of dragons/eggs and their future riders.

For example Drogon's colors is colors of Targaryens - black and red (crimson is shade of red. Also some Targaryens used slightly different sigils than one red three headed dragon on black font.)

Viserion's coloring I already explained in previous post.

And Rhaegel's - green is grass, and bronze in this case is symbol of Dothraki - their bronze skin, or bronze aracks.

Quaithe said to Dany, that she will find the truth in Asshai. Could be that she meant that Dany's son is there in Asshai.

8 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

I am essentially confused as to how and when Rhaego will get his dragon, since right now he is barely two years old.

He was born in the end of 298 or in very early 299.

Dany was born in early 284. On the day she turned 14, she was already pregnant, in her first chapter in Clash she is still 14, and when they got to Qarth she's already 15. It's probably close to the end of 300, by the time she gets back to Dothraki Sea. She will get back to Meereen in 301.

For all Dothraki to get to Meeren it will take a lot of time. Distance between Pentos and Vaes Dothrak is 3,000 miles, between Vaes Dothrak and Meereen 1,200 miles. It took over 18 months for Drogo's khalasar to get to Vaes Dothrak, and there was only 40,000 of them. So to get all Dothraki warriors to Meereen, Dany will need 6+ months. And about the same amount of time to sail them to Westeros. So by the time she will arrive to 7K, it will be already year 302+. A year or two prior she will go to The Wall, so by that time it will be 304+. By the time the Others will get on this side of The Wall, and will start their march across 7K, it will be already 305.

Rhaego will be 6 years old.

Rhaenyra Targaryen became dragonrider when she was 7 years old. She was a girl, a royal princess pampered by her parents, and that was in times of peace, and prosperity of Targaryens. But now the war against the Others is near, so Rhaego will start learning how to ride a dragon, as soon as he will learn to walk, because those people that kidnapped him, think that he is the Prince that was promised (Quaithe and Red Priests from Asshai).

For example Duncan the Tall became squire of Arlan of Pennytree, when he was 5 or 6 years old. Dothraki learn to ride horses from early age, when they are 4-5 years old. All ironborn children join shipcrews or become apprentices when they turn 7 years old. And they are not a mix of Dothraki and dragonseed like Rhaego. So his young age is not an obstacle for him to become a dragonrider.

Next - from where will he get a dragon? - He already bonded with Rhaegel, so he will become his rider, when he will reunite with his mother. Also probably people that stole him, have four more dragon eggs. I think that Varys, Illyrio, and Quaithe are either Blackfyres, or their agents/spies. It's possible that the Tragedy at Summerhall was caused by Blackfyres, and they also stole 7 dragon eggs of Targaryens that were there. Three of them they gave as a wedding gift to Dany, thus they have 4 more left, and can give them to Rhaego and to fAegon (who is also their project, "Mummer's Dragon" from Dany's vision in House of Undying).

8 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

1. I have always read that Rhaegar considered Rhaenys one of the heads of the dragon (This is the first time I am reading of an order of heads, first, second and third, etc). 2. Just like it is never told in the books that he didn't consider Rhaenys one of the heads, it is never revealed that he considered himself to be one either. Just wanted to point that out, I know that it doesn't really change your theory.

1. Where have you read it? -> in theories, not in the ASOIAF books.

Also answer to 2. - in next two quotes from AFFC and AGOT:

Quote

On Braavos, it had seemed possible that Aemon might recover. Xhondo’s talk of dragons had almost seemed to restore the old man to himself. That night he ate every bite Sam put before him. “No one ever looked for a girl,” he said. “It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.”

Quote

Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother’s hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. “Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. “What better name for a king?”

“Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked.

“He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. “There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.” He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

In that room there was 1. Rhaegar and his son 2. Aegon, and he told to Dany "There must be 3. one more". There was no Rhaenys there, no one in the books actually said about Rhaenys being one of three, or dragonhead. So if what he said was said in the past, then Rhaegar was first, his son was second, and someone else was supposed to become third. Or if what was said happened in the present, and Rhaegar's ghost was saying those words to Dany, then it means that she is first, her son is second, and there must be one more (so it's either Jon Snow, or the baby of Dany and Jon Snow).

Both Rhaegar and maester Aemon didn't even thought, that the girl/female could be one of dragonheads. So Rhaenys definitely wasn't one of them, at least in their opinion at that time, prior Aemon realised that it actually COULD BE a female.

Also this part:

Quote

“The dragon has three heads,” she sighed. “Do you know what that means, Jorah?”

“Your Grace? 1.1. The sigil of House Targaryen is a three-headed dragon, red on black.”

“I know that. But there are no three-headed dragons.”

1.2. The three heads were Aegon and his sisters.

1.3. Visenya and Rhaenys,” she recalled. “1.4. I am descended from Aegon and Rhaenys through their son Aenys and their grandson Jaehaerys.

“Blue lips speak only lies, isn’t that what Xaro told you? Why do you care what the warlocks whispered? All they wanted was to suck the life from you, you know that now.”

“Perhaps,” she said reluctantly. “Yet the things I saw . . .”

A dead man in the prow of a ship, a blue rose, a banquet of blood . . . what does any of it mean, Khaleesi? A mummer’s dragon, you said. What is a mummer’s dragon, pray?

“A cloth dragon on poles,” Dany explained. “Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight.”

Ser Jorah frowned.

Dany could not let it go. “His is the song of ice and fire, my brother said. I’m certain it was my brother. Not Viserys, Rhaegar. He had a harp with silver strings.”

Ser Jorah’s frown deepened until his eyebrows came together. “Prince Rhaegar played such a harp,” he conceded. “You saw him?”

She nodded. “There was a woman in a bed with a babe at her breast. 2.1. My brother said the babe was the prince that was promised and told her to name him Aegon.

2.2. Prince Aegon was Rhaegar’s heir by Elia of Dorne,” Ser Jorah said. “2.3. But if he was this prince that was promised, the promise was broken along with his skull when the Lannisters dashed his head against a wall.

“I remember,” Dany said sadly. “2.4. They murdered Rhaegar’s daughter as well, the little princess. Rhaenys, 3.1. she was named, like Aegon’s sister. 3.2. There was no Visenya, but he said the dragon has three heads. What is the song of ice and fire?”

“It’s no song I’ve ever heard.”

“I went to the warlocks hoping for answers, but instead they’ve left me with a hundred new questions.”

3.2. There was no Visenya. And there was also NO RHAENYS there, neither Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys, not Aegon I's sister Rhaenys. So Rhaenys, both of Rhaenyses, is not one of dragon heads.

The idea that Rhaenys was one of dragon heads, is just a concept or misconception created by fans themselves, and there was nothing of the sorts in the books. Even based on Dany's words it doesn't actually seems that Dany thinks that Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys was one of dragon heads.

"They murdered Rhaegar’s daughter as well, the little princess. Rhaenys, she was named, like Aegon’s sister. There was no Visenya, but he said the dragon has three heads." <- it doesn't mean that she considered Rhaenys to be one of dragon heads. She just mentioned that Rhaenys was also killed, and she was named like Aegon's sister. And from previous comment by Jorah it's obvious that Rhaenys was one of dragon heads of Targaryens family sigil.

(Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys, was named like Aegon's sister) + (There was no Visenya) + (He said the dragon has three heads) =/= Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys is one of dragon heads about which vision-Rhaegar was talking.

It's a general misconception.

Also "A dead man in the prow of a ship" - Theon, "a blue rose" - Jon Snow, "a banquet of blood" - Red wedding (in her vision there was sitting a King with wolf's head. It's what they did to Robb - they beheaded him and attached his direwolf's head on his body),  "A mummer’s dragon" - fAegon, "Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight." - mummers - Blackfyres (Varys and Illyrio), follies - attack of Golden Company on Westeros, heroes - people of 7K.

8 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

I have never believed that to be a dragon you have to ride a dragon. The Bloodraven tells Dunk that he saw a dragon being born at Whitehalls, while really, Egg never rode a dragon. That didn't make them any less of dragons.

At those times there was no actual dragons to ride them. But now there are three. So why not to use all resourses at their maximum level? -> And that would be a rider for each dragon, to use their full potential against Undead Army.

8 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Her councilors/strategists are sure to point out to her that Jon's burning sword becomes redundant.

You also make some interesting points, however, about his connection to Viserion. But I still think that Jon himself will not want his burning sword to become redundant. So if Jon gets the dragon, I think he has to be the last possible choice for it.(Unless the dragon itself is lightbringer, like Lost Melnibonean pointed out).

If Jon will become a dragonrider, it isn't equal to his dragon being a Lightbringer. I think that Jon will wield actual burning sword, the Lightbringer (which I think could be the Dawn sword of Daynes, which is according to one of my theories is currently in crypts under Winterfell. And it will become active/blazing again, when dragons will come to Westeros -> same as maeges and fire-tricksters in Qarth, became stronger when dragons came there.), and in addition to that will be a dragonrider.

If the Others have an Ice Dragon, then Jon will have to also become a dragonrider. Old Nan told Starks children about ice dragons. They lived at Shivering Sea and White Waste - both locations are in the far north, beyond The Wall in Westeros, and above Essos. The Others also live there. So could be that they have ice dragon, or maybe even several of them.

It will be three Ice Dragons VS three Targaryen dragons.

Edited by Megorova

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I got a new theory ^_^ If Rhaego wasn't kidnapped by Red Priests, it's possible that he was kidnapped by Dothraki, specifically by Drogo's Ko Pono.

Quote

Mirri Maz Duur was dancing, and not alone.

Dany saw naked fear on the faces of the Dothraki. “This must not be,” Qotho thundered.

She had not seen the bloodrider return. Haggo and Cohollo were with him. They had brought the hairless men, the eunuchs who healed with knife and needle and fire.

“This will be,” Dany replied.

“Maegi,” Haggo growled. And old Cohollo—Cohollo who had bound his life to Drogo’s on the day of his birth, Cohollo who had always been kind to her—Cohollo spat full in her face.

“You will die, maegi,” Qotho promised, “but the other must die first.” He drew his arakh and made for the tent.

Quote

She might have struck downriver for the ports at Meereen and Yunkai and Astapor, but Rakharo warned her that Pono’s khalasar had ridden that way, driving thousands of captives before them to sell in the flesh marts that festered like open sores on the shores of Slaver’s Bay. “Why should I fear Pono?” Dany objected. “He was Drogo’s ko, and always spoke me gently.

“Ko Pono spoke you gently,” Ser Jorah Mormont said. “Khal Pono will kill you. He was the first to abandon Drogo. Ten thousand warriors went with him.

Quote

“We have no time for feasts, my lord,” said Haldon. “Griff means to strike downriver the instant we are back. News has been coming upriver, none of it good. Dothraki have been seen north of Dagger Lake, outriders from old Motho’s khalasar, and Khal Zekko is not far behind him, moving through the Forest of Qohor.”

The fat man made a rude noise. “Zekko visits Qohor every three or four years. The Qohorik give him a sack of gold and he turns east again. As for Motho, his men are near as old as he is, and there are fewer every year. The threat is—”

“—Khal Pono,” Haldon finished. “Motho and Zekko flee from him, if the tales are true. The last reports had Pono near the headwaters of the Selhoru with a khalasar of thirty thousand. Griff does not want to risk being caught up in the crossing if Pono should decide to risk the Rhoyne.”

Where did he got 20 more thousands?

Maybe he defeated other khals and combined their khalasars with his, or maybe other Dothraki joined him, because he got with him the Stallion that will mount the world.

He kidnapped the baby, because Dothraki thought (as seen in that first quote) that Dany was also a maegi, and that she harmed/killed/doomed their Khal. So they couldn't let her to also harm their prommised Prince/Stallion. 

Could be that currently Rhaego is in Vaes Dothrak, or with those Dothraki that found Dany in her last chapter in ADWD. From her dream we know that her son has silver-gold hair and violet eyes. It's not a typical features for Dothraki, so she will recognize him. And will order Drogo to Dracarys those people that kidnapped her baby.

This theory actually doesn't go against my previous theory - Mirri, who was a shadowbinder, and was trained by Red Priests in Asshai, helped to kidnapp Dany's baby. It was a revenge to Dany and Drogo - they were separated from their child. And she couldn't kill the baby, because Quaithe forbade her to do it, because the baby is future champion of R'hllor.

Could be that among those shadows, that Dany saw in tent with Mirri, was Quaithe, that wasn't actually there, she was just using glass candle to communicate with Mirri, and instruct her what to do.

So Rhaego was kidnapped by Dothraki (by Khal Pono, who was Drogo's ko/bloodrider), and later Dany will reunite with him. And when he will be an adult, he will be a Red Priest in Asshai, which was symbolised by his flaming heart, and fire coming out of his mouth, and him disappearing from Dany (because she will marry with Jon, and they will have their own kids, and will live in 7K, and Rhaego will leave them and go to propagate faith of R'hllor).

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