Bloodstone Emperor Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I know that this theory has already been created, but I couldn’t find any really good ones and wanted to hear what you think. I reread the chapter when Winterfell was burning and how Bran saw from Summer a winged snake with breath of fire over Winterfell for a second. Winterfell has hot springs that could be a cause of the dragon and the fire could have birthed it similar to the way Daenerys birthed hers. I also find it interesting that Bran didn’t see it but Summer did so it may be mistaken and something else and that Summer only saw it for a second. Tell me what you think about this theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 After building Winterfell Bran the Builder realized it was too cold to live in the Castle during winter. So he and a group of brave men and women went to Valyria and captured a dragon. Using spells and magics he locked the dragon under the Castle to warm it. As long as at least one Stark always stayed in Winterfell the dragon would forever be locked below it. When Bran and Rickon had to flee it left Winterfell Stark-less and the dragon left to fly back home to Valyria. That's why there always had to be a Stark in Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: After building Winterfell Bran the Builder realized it was too cold to live in the Castle during winter. So he and a group of brave men and women went to Valyria and captured a dragon. Using spells and magics he locked the dragon under the Castle to warm it. As long as at least one Stark always stayed in Winterfell the dragon would forever be locked below it. When Bran and Rickon had to flee it left Winterfell Stark-less and the dragon left to fly back home to Valyria. That's why there always had to be a Stark in Winterfell. Or BtB decided to build Winterfell where he did (far from the sea and rivers etc) exactly because of the hot springs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Quote A Clash of Kings - Prologue Shireen was unconvinced. "What about the thing in the sky? Dalla and Matrice were talking by the well, and Dalla said she heard the red woman tell Mother that it was dragonsbreath. If the dragons are breathing, doesn't that mean they are coming to life?" The red woman, Maester Cressen thought sourly. Ill enough that she's filled the head of the mother with her madness, must she poison the daughter's dreams as well? He would have a stern word with Dalla, warn her not to spread such tales. "The thing in the sky is a comet, sweet child. A star with a tail, lost in the heavens. It will be gone soon enough, never to be seen again in our lifetimes. Watch and see." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiSt Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Off the top of my head, I think Bran is seeing himself leaving winterfell as a projection onto the mind of Summer. As it's the exact moment when there's no longer a Stark in winterfell, it's certainly no small detail. We see Bran later as a weirwood in Jon's wolf dream through Ghost, so why not as a dragon /winged snake through the mind of Summer? Direwolves are magic after all, so who knows what knowledge they may have? It likely implies a valyrian ancestry for house Stark (as do the gargoyles on the first keep etc), may explain the smallfolks tale of a dragon beneath winterfell, imply something about the protective function of having a "Stark in winterfell" and the crypts etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Bran is a warg, skin changer, necromancer and...and...what is the word for dream speaking? Point is he's a powerful psychic. As Bran has this vision as Summer, I tend to agree with @LynnShere. Summer sees the comet and cannot adequately describe it in human words. Bran doesn't seem to be particularly bothered by this. Now I would be extremely bothered if someone like Jojen told me he had a dream of my bondage in chains with the star of my dreams, a 3EC, pecking at those chains. Again, Bran is not. It's entirely possible we are strictly given Summer's description without Bran's interpretation because Bran understands what Summer saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Arya has a similar experience... and she survives this experience also while being underground. Foreshadowing for a future event? Maybe , but that would probably be more the pervasive fight for life that all will experience. I agree with @LynnS 's quote in this case. Foreshadowing for a dragon under Winterfell? Sadly, probably not, even though I think that would be really cool. A Clash of Kings - Arya IV And then a wheel was looming over her. The wagon jumped and moved a half foot when Biter threw himself against his chains again. Jaqen saw her, but it was too hard to breathe, let alone talk. She threw the axe into the wagon. Rorge caught it and lifted it over his head, rivers of sooty sweat pouring down his noseless face. Arya was running, coughing. She heard the steel crash through the old wood, and again, again. An instant later came a crack as loud as thunder, and the bottom of the wagon came ripping loose in an explosion of splinters. Arya rolled headfirst into the tunnel and dropped five feet. She got dirt in her mouth but she didn't care, the taste was fine, the taste was mud and water and worms and life. Under the earth the air was cool and dark. Above was nothing but blood and roaring red and choking smoke and the screams of dying horses. She moved her belt around so Needle would not be in her way, and began to crawl. A dozen feet down the tunnel she heard the sound, like the roar of some monstrous beast, and a cloud of hot smoke and black dust came billowing up behind her, smelling of hell. Arya held her breath and kissed the mud on the floor of the tunnel and cried. For whom, she could not say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Jazzy Joff Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 42 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: Summer sees the comet and cannot adequately describe it in human words. Not so sure this is the case - the comet appears early in the year, right after Ned's death. Theon's taking of Winterfell occurs ~6-8 months later, and there have been no mentions of the comet still being visible for some time, many months. Although it did hang around in the sky for a good long while, I don't believe it was still present as Winterfell burned - whatever Summer saw, it wasn't the comet (or at least not THAT comet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, DJ Jazzy Joff said: Not so sure this is the case - the comet appears early in the year, right after Ned's death. Theon's taking of Winterfell occurs ~6-8 months later, and there have been no mentions of the comet still being visible for some time, many months. Although it did hang around in the sky for a good long while, I don't believe it was still present as Winterfell burned - whatever Summer saw, it wasn't the comet (or at least not THAT comet). I'm pretty sure your right. Summer is describing a belch of flames. coming up from the castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 48 minutes ago, DJ Jazzy Joff said: Not so sure this is the case - the comet appears early in the year, right after Ned's death. Theon's taking of Winterfell occurs ~6-8 months later, and there have been no mentions of the comet still being visible for some time, many months. Although it did hang around in the sky for a good long while, I don't believe it was still present as Winterfell burned - whatever Summer saw, it wasn't the comet (or at least not THAT comet). 29 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: I'm pretty sure your right. Summer is describing a belch of flames. coming up from the castle. Reread starts TODAY! I will have my eyes open for this again and let you know if I am inspired with any other possibility. A belch of flames...interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Winterfell had a dragon, his name is Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckram Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 According to a SSM, in november 2001, Martin was asked if this sight was "a dragon, a vision of a dragon, or something else entirely, say Summer's misinterpretation of the comet in the sky". GRRM answered: "No comment. I like it to my readers to make sense of signs and portents." "Signs and Portents" is the book of visions written down by Daenys Targaryen (the maiden who predicted the doom of Valyria), which existence and status (thought to be lost) we first heard of in AFFC - The Kraken's Daughter. In november 2001, Martin was already working on AFFC. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 16 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Or BtB decided to build Winterfell where he did (far from the sea and rivers etc) exactly because of the hot springs... poppycock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Most likely it is Summer's misinterpretation of Winterfell's burning by Ramsay. Probably a smoke column was in the shape of a dragon. It could also be a portent of a future dragon, such as one of Dany's (plenty of reasons for her to show up at Winterfell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 It can't be hot springs because there are no warm pools around WF in fact the only pool around WF is ice cold. Also the cripts are beneah WF and there freezing Theon even mentioned that WF isn't as warm as it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 46 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said: It can't be hot springs because there are no warm pools around WF in fact the only pool around WF is ice cold. Also the cripts are beneah WF and there freezing Theon even mentioned that WF isn't as warm as it used to be. Eh, not quite. I know AGOT has been a while for many of us, so here is a reminder. Symbolic on many levels. Game of Thrones - Catelyn II Of all the rooms in Winterfell's Great Keep, Catelyn's bedchambers were the hottest. She seldom had to light a fire. The castle had been built over natural hot springs, and the scalding waters rushed through its walls and chambers like blood through a man's body, driving the chill from the stone halls, filling the glass gardens with a moist warmth, keeping the earth from freezing. Open pools smoked day and night in a dozen small courtyards. That was a little thing, in summer; in winter, it was the difference between life and death. Catelyn's bath was always hot and steaming, and her walls warm to the touch. The warmth reminded her of Riverrun, of days in the sun with Lysa and Edmure, but Ned could never abide the heat. The Starks were made for the cold, he would tell her, and she would laugh and tell him in that case they had certainly built their castle in the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 17 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Or BtB decided to build Winterfell where he did (far from the sea and rivers etc) exactly because of the hot springs... 10 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: Summer is describing a belch of flames. coming up from the castle. 9 hours ago, Fire Eater said: Winterfell had a dragon, his name is Jon. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 23 hours ago, Fire Eater said: Winterfell had a dragon, his name is Jon. This. Jon is the dragon that will be woken from stone. Here we see a dragon waking from the stone of Winterfell, like when Daemon saw a dragon bursting from an egg in the pale white castle of Whaitewalls, which turned out to be Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 1/1/2018 at 4:30 AM, Bloodstone Emperor said: I know that this theory has already been created, but I couldn’t find any really good ones and wanted to hear what you think. I reread the chapter when Winterfell was burning and how Bran saw from Summer a winged snake with breath of fire over Winterfell for a second. Winterfell has hot springs that could be a cause of the dragon and the fire could have birthed it similar to the way Daenerys birthed hers. I also find it interesting that Bran didn’t see it but Summer did so it may be mistaken and something else and that Summer only saw it for a second. Tell me what you think about this theory. The closest thing is a speculation from the court's fool Mushroom, if I recall. He says Vermax pooped some eggs in Winterfell's crypts. I've not the text with me, but if there is no indication of a dragon lurking deep beneath Winterfell at least in lord Stark's POV in AGoT, I doubt we'll see one. When Bran sees through Summer he adopts a animist kind of view. He sees, for instance, the walls of the castle as 'stone men'. If there's a thing flying off the roof of a burning Winterfell (like smoke & fire) I've no doubt the wolf would think that's a fire serpent. I do think that George may have toyed with the concept of a dragon flying away from Winterfell during the wreck, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokKing Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Most likely it was Summer/Bran-in-Summer interpreting some fire of Winterfell burning. Or he/they could be seeing something in the flames, in a manner akin to Red Priests. Or if Vermax did lay a clutch of egg in the crypts, I suppose its possible one hatched at some point, perhaps the same time as Daenerys' dragons, i.e. during the Red Comet, and its been living on rats and scraps all while hiding from men, like Grey Ghost. That would be very interesting and give Jon the possibility of a dragon he wouldn't have to get from Dany, but I would think there would at least be rumors or hints of a dragon in the North by this point in the story; at least something beyond this event alone so it wouldn't seem that this dragon just came from nowhere. As to the potential dragon hatching from the burning of Winterfell at the time, I don't think it likely that it would start flying off and breathing fire so soon after hatching if that was the case. So if it was an actual dragon, I think it would have needed to hatch earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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