The Fattest Leech Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 53 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: @AlaskanSandman I'm glad to find your thread back in the general ASOIAF instead of show section (don't let Dorian the Difficult dissuade you from your metaphorical task ) Reveal hidden contents (...although I'll never understand the pedantic hoopla about keeping the show and book separate as if 'never the twain shall meet..,' when clearly that 'virginity' was lost long ago! Of course the two tellings influence each other reciprocally and therefore analysis of the show's choices can definitely shed light on GRRM's thinking and vice versa. It makes more sense to analyze D&D's script than to seek for clues to foreshadowing in Norse mythology and the like -- whether one likes it or not, GRRM has directly confided key plot and symbolic elements to the fools, although he's not responsible for the contorted writing they sometimes come up with to account for these appointed milestones; so be it). It's a pity the following observations were edited away in your original post; I think it's a great catch! As you've correctly interpreted, saying the NK is 'no more likely' to exist than BtB is the same thing as saying they're 'just as likely' to exist as each other, suggesting that their respective 'existences' may be more equivalent than we think, perhaps even literally equivalent, because they're just two aspects of the very same person, LOL! The Targaryeans may not be the only ones with two faces to the coin, a 'taint' in the gene pool, and a moral taboo at the heart (pun intended) of their power: 'How it will land' after being 'tossed into the air'... As the wonderful @evita mgfs once pointed out, Bran like his forbear and namesake is the 'fallen star(k)'. I think he turned her into an Other; he's a villain not a hero (or perhaps, more accurately, he's a fallen hero); and I think he raped/murdered her (euphemistically referred to as 'chasing and stealing' her), just as we saw demonstrated by the Varamyr-Thistle interaction in the ADWD Prologue. He did not forge Lightbringer 'for love', just as the motive for Petyr chucking Lysa out the moondoor into the 'bloody blue' had nothing to do with love. At its essence, the 'Lightbringer forging' requires the face-to-face murder of a spouse (basically, a kinslaying) at point-blank range (Dany's snuffling-out of sorcerously-lobotomised Drogo via pillow is another example, though it make me unpopular to voice the glaring parallel). The subtext indicates AA/BtB was a greenseer who abused his power, committing abominations. The principal challenge of Bran's arc is to avoid the temptation of walking in the footsteps of his ancestor, as he crosses the perilous narrow bridge across that abyss. If you think of the transformation in question as being analogous to 'Snow White' in suspended animation merely 'sleeping' in her glass coffin under a spell, as suggested by @GloubieBoulga (as we expect will be the case for Jon Snow preserved in his ice cell, as foreshadowed in Bran's so-called 'coma dream'); then I suppose it's conceivable that the spell may be reversed and the prisoner liberated from his/her incarceration intact. If, however, your model of the 'frozen fire' or 'burning ice' implies a cost, as in the Varamyr 'plunging bodiless into the ice-cold lake' having suffered a 'true death,' which means that he can never return to his own human form, that dead flesh having fallen away forever irretrievably; then it's not possible to truly convert the 'undead' back to the 'living' side of the equation. Being 'immortal' is not the same thing as being 'alive'. Let that sink in for a moment! That's also an excellent catch! If the 'giant's ribs' are a metaphor for the weirwood/weirnet (like the 'ribs of Nagga'), then what do you think the presence of obsidian or frozen fire in their midst signifies? There is a lot of craziness in this post that is like an opposite RR. Were you hacked? Or hawked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: There is a lot of craziness in this post that is like an opposite RR. Were you hacked? Or hawked? We don't always have to prove everything. Sometimes we can free-associate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Look at it like this Dorian. The Others never are mentioned before the Long Night. Meaning, they did not exist before the Long Night. This is incorrect well before the blood stone emperor who was AA and who started the first long night by doing a whole lot of bad stuff the i believe it was the opal emperor who had the five forts built to defend against the lion of night and his demons. The five forts are in the north estern corner of esose where i think it connects to the lands of always winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 1/3/2018 at 6:38 PM, AlaskanSandman said: This has in large part (If you look at my Family Tree thread.) to do with merging the many legends the GRRM has laid down. Part of it comes from merging the Empire of the Dawn family to Garth's Family tree. In doing so, there becomes a possible over lap on characters. The eldest of the God on Earths (Garth's) children, would then be, Garth Gardener, the Pearl Emperor. Brandon of the Bloody Blade, who is possible father to Brandon the Builder, becomes the Opal Emperor. Father to the Bloodstone Emperor and the Amethyst Empress. The Mother to Bran the Builder, could possibly be Rose of Red Lake, the Last of the Fisher Queens. Both associated to water and both linked possibly to Bran the Builder, Azor Ahai. Red Lake was once, Blue Lake, implying a change. Brandon of the Bloody Blade may also be the Grey King, who lived for only 1007 years, the amount of time the God on Earth's children lived. The God on Earth lived for 10,000 years, so it's not him. Since the Grey King became grey over his long rule, it sounds like he activated the curse on the barrow of the first king, Garth the Green. So. Brandon of the Bloody blade turned into an other per the curse possibly. And by proximity and legend, is tied to Rose of Red Lake. Now, Azor Ahai legend come from Asshai, where they speak of Nissa Nissa also. Well this legend comes from the lands once part of the Empire of the Dawn. So, Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa may be the Bloodstone Emperor and the Amethyst Empress, his sister. These two siblings are the children of the Opal Emperor, Brandon of the Bloody Blade. Well Azor Ahai sounds almost exactly like Huzhor Amai. Well if they are the same then we know who Azor's mother was based on Eastern legend and western legend. So the Last Fisher Queen and Rose of Red Lake with their water connections is the mother to Azor- Huzhor- Brandon the Builder- The Bloodstone Emperor. Note also that Brandon of the Bloody Blade has a brother, Owen Oakenshield who has a castle on the wall. I think this is due to the og castle being made of stone, the one that is now the foundation to the ice wall built by Bloody Brandon's son, Brandon the Builder. Bloody Brandon is an Other by the end though. So we know Brandon the builder built the wall after the Last Hero met with the Children of the forest. Many have speculated about Bran the Builder being the Night's King, and i think he was too. The Corpse Queen, would be Nissa Nissa, who was either fire turned to ice, or ice turned to fire. Take your pick based on the tree and events so far. But Brandon the Builder, Azor Ahai, and his sister, the Corpse Queen, Nissa Nissa, were brought down by Brandon the Builders brother, Brandon the Breaker. Likely in an alliance with the other fire sides remaining in westeros. In my other thread i go through much of this with quotes showing that this is all based off textual evidence and merging what they say into a cohesive narrative. To which i think GRRM did provide enough information to to figure out. Some things are clued to me by the current narrative or more recent past. Like the Great Bastards story line i think plays into the past also. Explaining the Crow and the Raven. Some thing i talk more about in my Bloodraven is not the Three Eyed Crow thread. In which the idea of Bran and Sweet Robin is introduced as opposites and the raven and the crow. Cousins. Now if the Crow and Raven are cousins, and both black and misunderstood. Then they also sound like the great bastards, Bloodraven and Bittersteel. Bittersteel who was a supporter of the Blackfyre cousin branch to the Targaryens, where as Bloodraven supported the legit Targaryen half. All of this i think played out in the past too. With there being three heads of the dragon back then too, but three heads of the dragon to both Ice and Fire, which are also cousin branches. It's the Empire of the Dawn family that represents the life, death, and fertility aspects of the God on Earth, Garth the Green. Here is the tree Key to tree I - Descends down to I------I------I - Siblings, except under Rhaegar and Joanna, where it shows who they had kids with I--------I - moving a branch over for space sake. ========= - Had children with, Curse on Barrow of the First King Garth the Gardener God on Earth – 10,000 years House Dayne? I I The Dawn Age Gardeners, Targaryen branch? I Starks, crow branch Lannister, Raven Branch Legit Legit Bastard Bastard Bastard I---------------------------I----------------------------I ****---------------------------------------I---------------------------I Garth gardener. Rose Of The Grey King- =========== Florys or Rowan Owen Pear Emperor. == Red Lake. ======= Opal Emperor.1000 years I Oakenshield House I Last of the Brandon of the Bloody Blade. House Gardener I Fisher Queens . (Activated curse of Barrow king) Lannister I (3000 years ago) I I I House Stark I House I I-----------------------------I Targaryen? I I I--------------------I------------------------I I-------------------------I---------------------------I I Garth V?==Daeryssa ===Serwyn of Uthor of Hightower == Nissa Nissa==Brandon Breaker I Mirror Shield Hugor of the hill I Amethyst Defeats his I I Huzhor Amai I Empress brother night’s king I I Azor Ahai- I--------------I I I Brandon the Builder I I I Bloodstone Emperor I-----------I------------I I I Night’s King Stark==Stark==Ser Artys Arryn? I I 2000 years ago. I I I I Forges Dawn? Or Ice? I House Arryn? I Tullys? - Builds Ice Wall I I I I I--------------------I I I I I I I I I-------------I-----------I I---------I---------I I I I Brandon I Eddard == Caitlynn Brynden Lysa ===Jon Arryn I I I I Tully Tully Tully I I I I I I I I I Brandon Stark Sweet Robin Arryn I I I The Crow and his cousin The Raven I I I I Rhaegar Tagaryen I Joanna Lannister I I I I-----------------------------------I-------------------------------------I vs I-------------------------I-----------------------I Elia Martell Ashara Dayne Lyanna Stark Aerys II? Tywin Twyin I I I I I I Aegon Vi Daenerys Targayen Jon Snow Tyrion Lannister Cersei Jamie -garths-empire-of-the-dawn-family/ Quotes provided in above thread. Wow. This is a lot to chew on. How is this related to Bringing an Other back to humanhood with fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 23 hours ago, Yet Another ASOIAF Fan said: Brand does not experience everything Hodor does in the same way he experiences the wolves. When skinchanging the direwolves, the skinchanger 'merge' with the direwolf, resulting in the skinchanger sharing thoughts and feelings with the direwolf. An example of this is that while skinchanging Bran refers to castles as caves1, armor as hardskin2, and weapons as man-claws. Another example would be when Jon felt Ghost's hunger3. On the other hand, while Bran does have complete control over Hodor's body, Hodor's mind and thoughts hide from Bran4. 1.Bran VI-ACoK 2.Bran VII-ACoK 3.Jon XII-ASoS 4.Bran III-ADwD Yes, and when bran is in the mind of an adult human, he sees and experiences things as a human. Hodor can understand plenty. He just doesn't say much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Well that's what we're first told yes. But it also possibly works into other clues he has laid in the books. but since we have never read anything about obsidian being used as a magic tool to make ice demons, there is no reason to speculate about it unless you have seen the show 4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: And that would be a matter of opinion really. Obviously if people were theorizing it years before, then there must have been sufficient evidence to them to suspect as much. Zero Text in the books is not a matter of opinion. 4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: No it's not. Cause the entire set up and situation i talk about is not at all possible in that show. Its just not. The show cut out wayyyy to much for them to even be the same. What im saying about the books involves three generations of people and involving one being cursed while it effected the next generations. Not just some guy strapped to a pole and turned. Way different. Well, it looked enough like a show inspired thread that a mod moved it. What they say goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Look at it like this Dorian. The Others never are mentioned before the Long Night. Meaning, they did not exist before the Long Night. So what. The humans are a recent arrival compared to the other sentient magical races we have seen in the books. Since neither the children nor the giants had writings, only bran will know. 4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: So, they either created them out of nothing, or they used a pre-existing something (humans) and used magic to turn them. It's really not a hard logical leap and yes the evidence is in the books. Not every things needs to be spelled out word for word that this is indeed what happened. What would be the fun even in a book like that? Or, they were the ancient enemy of warmth and life, and their rise was cyclical, but as terrible as they are, they are easily vulnerable to the weapons the children carried, so they were always defeated, until humans arrived, killed the children and forgot their magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, divica said: It isn t that easy. Don t Forget that the others also attacked essos. And If the others could use boats I think the Wall would be useless... (this sounds so ridiculous lol) However, even if they can use boats. Why would they go to essos before conquering westeros? Or, the tale of the long night was told and retold and slightly changed over thousands of years and thousands of leagues to the different regional stories they are today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: Wow. This is a lot to chew on. How is this related to Bringing an Other back to humanhood with fire? Well it plays into my theory as it shows when and where the curse fell, when and where and who activated it, and who ended up winning the war. Three generation within a family. Which is why it is no where's close to a show theory. People of the show would only be confused more than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: but since we have never read anything about obsidian being used as a magic tool to make ice demons, there is no reason to speculate about it unless you have seen the show Zero Text in the books is not a matter of opinion. Well, it looked enough like a show inspired thread that a mod moved it. What they say goes. Ive never understood your stance on stuff like this, which is why i dont care to usually explain my self to you or the other person. It's not a matter of convincing you as you cannot be convinced. You simply refuse to look at stuff the same unless it's spelled out already verbatim in the text. Which is silly from a story telling aspect to give away your twist so openly before the end of the book. Where you would properly put the plot twist. Why would you just blatantly write out the twist? And yea well, that was corrected and it's back where it properly belongs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: So what. The humans are a recent arrival compared to the other sentient magical races we have seen in the books. Since neither the children nor the giants had writings, only bran will know. Or, they were the ancient enemy of warmth and life, and their rise was cyclical, but as terrible as they are, they are easily vulnerable to the weapons the children carried, so they were always defeated, until humans arrived, killed the children and forgot their magic. No, not so what, it proves my point. These ideas and concepts are right there in the books with out having to be spelled out. Right from book one. All derivable from the book as people have done years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: Or, the tale of the long night was told and retold and slightly changed over thousands of years and thousands of leagues to the different regional stories they are today That's not clearly stated in the books though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Sensenmenn said: This is incorrect well before the blood stone emperor who was AA and who started the first long night by doing a whole lot of bad stuff the i believe it was the opal emperor who had the five forts built to defend against the lion of night and his demons. The five forts are in the north estern corner of esose where i think it connects to the lands of always winter. Well thats actually a matter of opinion. Your assuming they lived at different times. I dont. I believe they were all children of the God on Earth. One is for sure known to be. With the Amethyst Empress and Bloodstone Emperor coming from one of these siblings, the Opal Emperor. Also, it was the Pearl Emperor who built them, not the Opal Emperor. So if you look at my tree above, it would make sense. The Pearl Emperor was the first born son of the God on Earth, Garth the Gardener, first born son to Garth the Green. Who helped to protect the world from his nephew the Bloodstone Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 23 hours ago, ravenous reader said: @AlaskanSandman I'm glad to find your thread back in the general ASOIAF instead of show section (don't let Dorian the Difficult dissuade you from your metaphorical task ) Reveal hidden contents (...although I'll never understand the pedantic hoopla about keeping the show and book separate as if 'never the twain shall meet..,' when clearly that 'virginity' was lost long ago! Of course the two tellings influence each other reciprocally and therefore analysis of the show's choices can definitely shed light on GRRM's thinking and vice versa. It makes more sense to analyze D&D's script than to seek for clues to foreshadowing in Norse mythology and the like -- whether one likes it or not, GRRM has directly confided key plot and symbolic elements to the fools, although he's not responsible for the contorted writing they sometimes come up with to account for these appointed milestones; so be it). It's a pity the following observations were edited away in your original post; I think it's a great catch! Quote Yea all of this was more than i should've had to go through haha and the two of them i usually just end up ignoring for clearly just hitting up threads to argue with people they already know they disagree with (took out simplified word explaining same concept. Be throwing people off the point, that is my bad, sorry). This time i needed my thread back in the right spot though hahah all is well And yea i dont get why people can't speculate between them both sometimes, but then i see how people get with just the books and im just like, yea never mind haha 23 hours ago, ravenous reader said: It's a pity the following observations were edited away in your original post; I think it's a great catch! Yea i didn't know how to go about getting it on the right thread haha my bad 23 hours ago, ravenous reader said: 'How it will land' after being 'tossed into the air'... As the wonderful @evita mgfs once pointed out, Bran like his forbear and namesake is the 'fallen star(k)'. ha, that's a nice catch haha 23 hours ago, ravenous reader said: I think he turned her into an Other; he's a villain not a hero (or perhaps, more accurately, he's a fallen hero); and I think he raped/murdered her (euphemistically referred to as 'chasing and stealing' her), just as we saw demonstrated by the Varamyr-Thistle interaction in the ADWD Prologue. He did not forge Lightbringer 'for love', just as the motive for Petyr chucking Lysa out the moondoor into the 'bloody blue' had nothing to do with love. At its essence, the 'Lightbringer forging' requires the face-to-face murder of a spouse (basically, a kinslaying) at point-blank range (Dany's snuffling-out of sorcerously-lobotomised Drogo via pillow is another example, though it make me unpopular to voice the glaring parallel). The subtext indicates AA/BtB was a greenseer who abused his power, committing abominations. The principal challenge of Bran's arc is to avoid the temptation of walking in the footsteps of his ancestor, as he crosses the perilous narrow bridge across that abyss. Im torn still but leaning that way haha but still torn. I have another thread im gonna do trying to look at this from another angle using different references and such. And yea ive never understood though why people go out of their way to attack things they disagree with. This site used to have alot more open thinkers. It seems they were all scared away by the group that see's the book only for what the basics are at face value, and would rather discuss hypothetical stuff like what if this happened instead of this, or just more character based stuff like incentive or such. All good and dandy, but let the others who wanna go deeper go deeper with out the constant harassment. And hmmm, that's interesting. So you dont think he'll make the plunge? 23 hours ago, ravenous reader said: If you think of the transformation in question as being analogous to 'Snow White' in suspended animation merely 'sleeping' in her glass coffin under a spell, as suggested by @GloubieBoulga (as we expect will be the case for Jon Snow preserved in his ice cell, as foreshadowed in Bran's so-called 'coma dream'); then I suppose it's conceivable that the spell may be reversed and the prisoner liberated from his/her incarceration intact. If, however, your model of the 'frozen fire' or 'burning ice' implies a cost, as in the Varamyr 'plunging bodiless into the ice-cold lake' having suffered a 'true death,' which means that he can never return to his own human form, that dead flesh having fallen away forever irretrievably; then it's not possible to truly convert the 'undead' back to the 'living' side of the equation. Being 'immortal' is not the same thing as being 'alive'. Let that sink in for a moment! Well im not sure the transformation can or will happen by either of these methods really, but rather a second life. I think he'll do a 2nd life into a never born child, and that will free him from the curse. 23 hours ago, ravenous reader said: That's also an excellent catch! If the 'giant's ribs' are a metaphor for the weirwood/weirnet (like the 'ribs of Nagga'), then what do you think the presence of obsidian or frozen fire in their midst signifies? Well im not sure about that. As far as the arrow heads in the chest. I imagine it's not that simple either to have made the curse. I imagine it took blood magic and some ritual still to preform. So theoretically, you can still just murder some one straight out with an obsidian blade with out turning them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: Wow. This is a lot to chew on. How is this related to Bringing an Other back to humanhood with fire? Also, if you look at the tree youll see Nissa Nissa in red and blue. That is due to her parents being blue. Meaning her father was an other and she was possibly born an Other. So if she was possibly born an other, then she was stabbed to either kill her, or turn her possibly. Simply kill her is a very real possibility too though honestly. Im trying to explore all avenues though which is why i was asking if an Other can be turned in more of a broad sense. This is why Jon and Tyrions name are in red and blue also as they are children of ice and fire, as around that time, they blue marks arent that they are others, but Andals or associated back to the Others. Like the Starks. Its also a working map, so may change slightly depending on deeper clues or conversations with people about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 12 hours ago, ravenous reader said: The Targaryeans may not be the only ones with two faces to the coin, a 'taint' in the gene pool, and a moral taboo at the heart (pun intended) of their power: Just posted something kind of about that. a-cold-sheath-for-a-hot-crystal-sword/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shi Qiang Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 The textbook Others' origins are still a mystery. They can reanimate dead flesh into wights. Can they transform humans to their kind? We don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 9 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Well it plays into my theory as it shows when and where the curse fell, when and where and who activated it, and who ended up winning the war. Three generation within a family. Which is why it is no where's close to a show theory. People of the show would only be confused more than you. I don't follow it but Ok. I see no need to unify every story and mythos on planetos under one grand unified umbrella. Since all the myths in the real world are not connected, why would every single myth in planetos need to be connected? It also forces you to make connections where there are none. 9 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Ive never understood your stance on stuff like this, which is why i dont care to usually explain my self to you or the other person. It's not a matter of convincing you as you cannot be convinced. You simply refuse to look at stuff the same unless it's spelled out already verbatim in the text. Which is silly from a story telling aspect to give away your twist so openly before the end of the book. Where you would properly put the plot twist. Why would you just blatantly write out the twist? And yea well, that was corrected and it's back where it properly belongs All you need to understand is that if you are writing long drawn out theories with no textual support from the novels other than your personal feelings you are writing fan fic. And the author hates that. you seem to have a wealth of imagination. Try writing your own story 9 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: No, not so what, it proves my point. These ideas and concepts are right there in the books with out having to be spelled out. Right from book one. All derivable from the book as people have done years ago. It doesn't prove anything. That is the point. you are making an assumption that something never existed before humans, a recent arrival, saw them first hand. That is like saying dogs never existed until you saw one as a child. As a philosophical exercise on the nature of reality, that is great, but as a basis for a theory on a story? It sucks. 9 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: That's not clearly stated in the books though It is though. We hear the mythologies of people from westeros to Asshai. So far, only the westerosi version is literal. We have seen and met Others and wights. 8 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Also, if you look at the tree you'll see Nissa Nissa in red and blue. That is due to her parents being blue. Meaning her father was an other and she was possibly born an Other. That is a bold assumption, and like most of those, there is no reason to think there is an ounce of credibility in that assumption. She was a regular human, who was killed by her blacksmith husband and her soul went into the sword. That is actually in the books. Her being an other is your fan fic. 8 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: So if she was possibly born an other, then she was stabbed to either kill her, or turn her possibly. Simply kill her is a very real possibility too though honestly. Im trying to explore all avenues though which is why i was asking if an Other can be turned in more of a broad sense. The problem is that there is nothing in the AA take about her being an other, having cold blue eyes or bringing extreme cold with her. so no, there is no possibility of her as an other. This kind of fan fic should be in the hearsay thread in the dance section. There is lots of fan fic that has nothing to do with the books in there 8 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: This is why Jon and Tyrions name are in red and blue also as they are children of ice and fire, as around that time, they blue marks arent that they are others, but Andals or associated back to the Others. Like the Starks. Jon is the song of ice and fire. Tyrion is the child of neither ice or fire. He is a golden Lion 9 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Yea all of this was more than i should've had to go through haha and the two of them i usually just end up ignoring for clearly trolling. This time i needed my thread back in the right spot though hahah all is well One other thing. The "T" word in not allowed in here. Now, I am not a reporting bitch like some other people that @ravenous reader has seen me spar with, but if the mods get wind of it, they will ban you for a period of time. So heads up with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 19 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: The Grey King would be the son of Garth the Green. Garth sounds to have lived for a verryyyy long time during the Dawn Age. The Grey King lived only 1007 years, like how Durran lived 1000 years. This is like the God on Earth (10,000 years) and his sons who lived 1000 years. I got quite a few hits on the name Garth, but I’m guessing this is what you are referencing. A Storm of Swords - Sansa I "Of course they do. Summer Islanders have no imagination. My son ought to take the puff fish for his sigil, if truth be told. He could put a crown on it, the way the Baratheons do their stag, mayhap that would make him happy. We should have stayed well out of all this bloody foolishness if you ask me, but once the cow's been milked there's no squirting the cream back up her udder. After Lord Puff Fish put that crown on Renly's head, we were into the pudding up to our knees, so here we are to see things through. And what do you say to that, Sansa?" Sansa's mouth opened and closed. She felt very like a puff fish herself. "The Tyrells can trace their descent back to Garth Greenhand," was the best she could manage at short notice. The Queen of Thorns snorted. "So can the Florents, the Rowans, the Oakhearts, and half the other noble houses of the south. Garth liked to plant his seed in fertile ground, they say. I shouldn't wonder that more than his hands were green."/ I only got two hits in the 1-5 book saga for the “Grey King” on the search site. Both had to do with the Ironborn and a dragon that fed on krakens and leviathans. A Feast for Crows - The Drowned Man On the crown of the hill four-and-forty monstrous stone ribs rose from the earth like the trunks of great pale trees. The sight made Aeron's heart beat faster. Nagga had been the first sea dragon, the mightiest ever to rise from the waves. She fed on krakens and leviathans and drowned whole islands in her wrath, yet the Grey King had slain her and the Drowned God had changed her bones to stone so that men might never cease to wonder at the courage of the first of kings. Nagga's ribs became the beams and pillars of his longhall, just as her jaws became his throne. For a thousand years and seven he reigned here, Aeron recalled. Here he took his mermaid wife and planned his wars against the Storm God. From here he ruled both stone and salt, wearing robes of woven seaweed and a tall pale crown made from Nagga's teeth. But that was in the dawn of days, when mighty men still dwelt on earth and sea. The hall had been warmed by Nagga's living fire, which the Grey King had made his thrall. On its walls hung tapestries woven from silver seaweed most pleasing to the eyes. The Grey King's warriors had feasted on the bounty of the sea at a table in the shape of a great starfish, whilst seated upon thrones carved from mother-of-pearl. Gone, all the glory gone. Men were smaller now. Their lives had grown short. The Storm God drowned Nagga's fire after the Grey King's death, the chairs and tapestries had been stolen, the roof and walls had rotted away. Even the Grey King's great throne of fangs had been swallowed by the sea. Only Nagga's bones endured to remind the ironborn of all the wonder that had been./ On 1/3/2018 at 5:19 AM, AlaskanSandman said: Can you change an Other (Ice), back to human (Fire)? That was your question under the title Can you bring an Other back to life (Fire)? As I mentioned in a post in this thread Mr. Puddle the Other seamed to melt. A Storm of Swords - Samwell I When he opened his eyes the Other's armor was running down its legs in rivulets as pale blue blood hissed and steamed around the black dragonglass dagger in its throat. It reached down with two bone-white hands to pull out the knife, but where its fingers touched the obsidian they smoked. Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger remained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating. Grenn bent to scoop it up and flung it down again at once. "Mother, that's cold." "Obsidian." Sam struggled to his knees. "Dragonglass, they call it. Dragonglass. Dragon glass." He giggled, and cried, and doubled over to heave his courage out onto the snow./ You have a theory is all fine and good. Just because me or other posters disagree does not make us trolls. To assert such is a way to enforce that lack of theory that you have. On 1/3/2018 at 5:19 AM, AlaskanSandman said: Edited Wednesday at 10:49 PM by Stubby Made it clear that the post was about the books and removed implied criticism from author of post 18 hours ago, ravenous reader said: Difficult dissuade you from your metaphorical task ) Hide contents (...although I'll never understand the pedantic hoopla about keeping the show and book separate as if 'never the twain shall meet..,' when clearly that 'virginity' was lost long ago! Of course the two tellings influence each other reciprocally and therefore analysis of the show's choices can definitely shed light on GRRM's thinking and vice versa. It makes more sense to analyze D&D's script than to seek for clues to foreshadowing in Norse mythology and the like -- whether one likes it or not, GRRM has directly confided key plot and symbolic elements to the fools, although he's not responsible for the contorted writing they sometimes come up with to account for these appointed milestones; so be it). 19 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Really great book honestly, and full of interesting legends, tales, and histories. Its a good read. While the world book may be interesting, and I did check it out from the library like I did with the Kinght of the Seven Kingdoms I deem it supplementary material. My ignorant way of looking at it that if Martin's saga can't stand on its own without purchasing the supplementary material then the masses aren't going to waste their time. Now back to the beginning On 1/3/2018 at 5:19 AM, AlaskanSandman said: Can you change an Other (Ice), back to human (Fire)? On 1/3/2018 at 5:19 AM, AlaskanSandman said: So the curse was placed on Garth by shoving the obsidian possibly into his chest. This only started the curse, NOT THE OTHERSSSSSSSS. Following? Please do if you so do wish to read the Garth and Grey King material I posted above. Please do if you are inclined to do so read the above quote about the Others. Please do not dismiss my disagreement with your ideas as being trollish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: One other thing. The "T" word in not allowed in here. Now, I am not a reporting bitch like some other people that @ravenous reader has seen me spar with, but if the mods get wind of it, they will ban you for a period of time. So heads up with that. Oh, i apologize. And yea i should probably just print it out and tape it next to my screen lol and i wasn't going quite that far but i definitely feel you on that. You and i have spat before and we've been fine hahaha As far as the rest, matter of opinion, in my opinion I also chose to approach this from a different way in another thread. Edit- fixed, Thank you for the heads up and again, apologies to any one "offended". Its like walking on thin emotional ice in here haha and im blunt with out always meaning to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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