Darth Richard II Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, Corvinus said: And he should never have started his story as a kid. Teenager would have been better in TPM, show that maybe he has dark moods from the beginning. And it would not have made the Council's stance that he is "too old" so ridiculous. Are the Jedi taking babies from the cradle to train them? Er actually yes, they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, Corvinus said: And he should never have started his story as a kid. Teenager would have been better in TPM, show that maybe he has dark moods from the beginning. And it would not have made the Council's stance that he is "too old" so ridiculous. Are the Jedi taking babies from the cradle to train them? I agree, that would have been better. I think that perhaps what pisses me off the more than anything in the prequel trilogy was just what an incredible missed opportunity they were. There are just enough glimmers of a great story there (particularly in Ep. 3), but they are just overwhelmed by strange plot decisions, bad dialogue and quickly outdated CGI. Great ideas they hint at and could have explored: - The Jedi Council and Yoda were a failure. They failed to identify the threat to the Republic and their insistence on repressing your emotions pushed Anakin to the dark side. - The Jedi Council (perhaps with the best intentions) had become political players in the Republic. Windu wanted to assassinate the elected leader of the Republic because he didn't trust the institutions in place to try him fairly. That's...not acceptable, and Anakin killing Windu was not the "moral event horizon" it is portrayed. - This could give the confrontation between Obi-Wan and Anakin actual meat, instead of a boring good vs evil showdown. Anakin's line "from my perspective the jedi are evil!" is SOOO bad, but that sentiment could have made ep. 3 great if they'd executed it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 28 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Er actually yes, they do. Well that's just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Corvinus said: Well that's just dumb. But could have been worked into the plot if well executed. Taking young children from their families and teaching them to sever all emotional ties and stop being such whiny emotional cry babies isn’t exactly a good approach. And with Anakin, leaving his mother behind in slavery could have been explored far more as a motivation but instead we got some botch job on Tatooine in Episode II which I always tune out for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/17/2018 at 6:14 PM, Davrum said: Neeson was the best of the actors playing good guys for sure, but the MVP of the PT is Ian McDiarmid without a shadow of a doubt. Loved him up until the big reveal in Ep 3. It goes downhill real quick from there. And who the fuck did his makeup after that? He looks drastically different than the OT, which is one of the big draws of getting the same actor to play the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, aceluby said: Loved him up until the big reveal in Ep 3. It goes downhill real quick from there. And who the fuck did his makeup after that? He looks drastically different than the OT, which is one of the big draws of getting the same actor to play the role. Wasn't the initial Palpatine hologram (the creepy, bug-eyed one) in TESB played by a woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowKnight Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 47 minutes ago, Astromech said: Wasn't the initial Palpatine hologram (the creepy, bug-eyed one) in TESB played by a woman? Yeah, it wasn't Ian McDirmid in ESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, GallowKnight said: Yeah, it wasn't Ian McDirmid in ESB. Yeah, they went back and edited those in with the shitty makeup version at the end of Ep 3 for the DVD release. That's also when we got Hayden Christensen in ROTJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, aceluby said: Yeah, they went back and edited those in with the shitty makeup version at the end of Ep 3 for the DVD release. That's also when we got Hayden Christensen in ROTJ Haha, the original theatrical releases are the only films that exist. Han shot first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 38 minutes ago, Astromech said: Haha, the original theatrical releases are the only films that exist. Han shot first. Still own my VHS versions of the original and special editions, though I don't own a VHS player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 21 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said: But could have been worked into the plot if well executed. Taking young children from their families and teaching them to sever all emotional ties and stop being such whiny emotional cry babies isn’t exactly a good approach. And with Anakin, leaving his mother behind in slavery could have been explored far more as a motivation but instead we got some botch job on Tatooine in Episode II which I always tune out for I think this gets to the heart of the problem with the prequels. They’re supposed to be the story of how Vader became Vader, but instead of getting a thoughtful look at how the Chosen One could have become the greatest villain in the galaxy we got a handful of melodramatic scenes that mostly didn’t make much sense from the perspectives of the characters involved. Lucas never showed us why Anikin was so petulant, arrogant, and angry; never showed us why Obi-wan cared so deeply about him; and certainly never showed us why Padme would ever have any romantic interest in him whatsoever. Guess there just wasn’t enough room for character development what with all the cool CGI fights that needed to be in the films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, Myshkin said: Lucas never showed us why Anikin was so petulant, arrogant, and angry; I can see why he would be harbouring some anger, having been a slave all his life then leaving his mother behind in slavery, never knowing what became of her. Maybe he was angry at himself for not being able to free her. In terms of arrogance, maybe if he had people talking of how he had the highest count of midi-chlorians anyone had ever seen, or had people telling him how he was so strong, despite starting his Jedi training ‘late’, he probably would develop a bloated head. IIRC, in AotC, Palpatine tells Anakin that he thinks he will become the strongest Jedi of all time. All that praise coming at him is likely to have caused the arrogance, while the lack of praise coming from Obi-Wan could have caused the petulance and the need to act out. The problem I have is that he is such a nice kid in TPM, and seems so excited by the prospect of becoming a Jedi that it seems so unlikely he would have turned out to be the way he was in AotC. It’s almost as if Lucas realised Anakin in TPM was too likeable to be believable as a young Darth Vader so he tried to completely change his nature to make him easier to dislike, without giving clear reasons why he became that way. All the audience could do was guess why he might have changed so much in ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I finally saw this yesterday in an almost empty cinema. Space penguins and ice foxes are cute. My friend said Chewbacca will probably turn vegetarian now. Still don't understand why some languages had "The Last Jedi" translated as plural. It seems very clear that it refers to Luke as a single person to me. (And the next movie is probably going to prove that "last" wrong with Rey and that random kid with the broom.) C3PO is useless. I don't think his being in the movie had any comsequence that happened. I wonder what they are going to do with Leia in the next movie. Probably going to start with her dead and go from there. I expect a significant time skip between this and the next movie, the Rebellion needs some time to rebuild strength and have more people join them, right? There is not much of an army left, if everybody fits on Millenium Falcon. These kids gushing over Luke need to grow up a bit to be able to do much. The grand ancient Jedi "library" has a grand number of eight books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Quote Wasn't the initial Palpatine hologram (the creepy, bug-eyed one) in TESB played by a woman? In a monkey mask voiced by Clive Revill, yes. On 19/01/2018 at 9:19 PM, Myshkin said: I think this gets to the heart of the problem with the prequels. They’re supposed to be the story of how Vader became Vader, but instead of getting a thoughtful look at how the Chosen One could have become the greatest villain in the galaxy we got a handful of melodramatic scenes that mostly didn’t make much sense from the perspectives of the characters involved. Lucas never showed us why Anikin was so petulant, arrogant, and angry; never showed us why Obi-wan cared so deeply about him; and certainly never showed us why Padme would ever have any romantic interest in him whatsoever. Guess there just wasn’t enough room for character development what with all the cool CGI fights that needed to be in the films. Lucas was terrible at this. It fell to Matt Stover and Dave Filoni to make it work better (in the Ep. 3 novelization and then the Clone Wars TV series). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Buckwheat said: I finally saw this yesterday in an almost empty cinema. Space penguins and ice foxes are cute. My friend said Chewbacca will probably turn vegetarian now. Still don't understand why some languages had "The Last Jedi" translated as plural. It seems very clear that it refers to Luke as a single person to me. (And the next movie is probably going to prove that "last" wrong with Rey and that random kid with the broom.) C3PO is useless. I don't think his being in the movie had any comsequence that happened. I wonder what they are going to do with Leia in the next movie. Probably going to start with her dead and go from there. I expect a significant time skip between this and the next movie, the Rebellion needs some time to rebuild strength and have more people join them, right? There is not much of an army left, if everybody fits on Millenium Falcon. These kids gushing over Luke need to grow up a bit to be able to do much. The grand ancient Jedi "library" has a grand number of eight books? Well, if Rey is going to be a Jedi, or is already considered to be one, but the Jedi order still ends after that, then there's nothing to prove wrong and they could both be considered the last Jedi? It depends on how you interpret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Annara Snow said: Well, if Rey is going to be a Jedi, or is already considered to be one, but the Jedi order still ends after that, then there's nothing to prove wrong and they could both be considered the last Jedi? It depends on how you interpret it. Hmmm I feel like the translators/distributors to different lands should consult with whoever is responsible for the original in this case, and they should give the same answer to all the distributors wherever: either the title is in plural or in singular. It just makes no sense that it is so different in different languages, as that strongly influences how the viewers are going to see it. The way it is, the interpretation by the viewer just hangs on the interpretation of the translator/distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrum Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Buckwheat said: Hmmm I feel like the translators/distributors to different lands should consult with whoever is responsible for the original in this case, and they should give the same answer to all the distributors wherever: either the title is in plural or in singular. It just makes no sense that it is so different in different languages, as that strongly influences how the viewers are going to see it. The way it is, the interpretation by the viewer just hangs on the interpretation of the translator/distributor. I'm with you that there should be consistency, but Luke flat-out explicitly says in this movie that it is not he who is the last jedi. The title is either plural or it refers to Rey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Davrum said: I'm with you that there should be consistency, but Luke flat-out explicitly says in this movie that it is not he who is the last jedi. The title is either plural or it refers to Rey. I thought he said "I will not be the last Jedi." I figured he was the last Jedi in this movie, as Rey is not quite there yet. But he's saying he'll force ghost train Rey (plus she has the books but it's not clear if he knows that) and then she will train others and the order will be reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, RumHam said: I thought he said "I will not be the last Jedi." I figured he was the last Jedi in this movie, as Rey is not quite there yet. But he's saying he'll force ghost train Rey (plus she has the books but it's not clear if he knows that) and then she will train others and the order will be reborn. Or the title refers to Ben Solo as the Last Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Chewbacca is actually the last Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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