Bronn Stone

The Last Jedi (Spoilers): Force-Choke or Tour-de-Force?

305 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Davrum said:

I know Myshkin very, very well, so can confidently claim to speak for him when I answer that the two big mysteries were clearly "Who is going to eat a porg?" and "Who will wield a lighsaber nunchuku?"

Careful. Some spoilers are too potent for even the spoiler thread. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just seen Episode 8. Couple of observations...

1. Empire strikes back is better. Why do they insist on telling the same story is beyond me... I thoight we'll get something new.

2. The script s so forceful. They are trying so much to entertain that it becomes ridiculous. 

3. Overall, Fin was useless and could have easily stayed in coma for the sake of our time.

4. Any news on Leia in Episode 9?

As I said @Ran once about Episode 7, this movie, well now franchise, represents everything that has gone bad in Hollywood in the past 10 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Davrum said:

I know Myshkin very, very well, so can confidently claim to speak for him when I answer that the two big mysteries were clearly "Who is going to eat a porg?" and "Who will wield a lighsaber nunchuku?"

I had been telling people for years that the answer to both would be Chewie. You can imagine how excited I was when it seemed the movie was about to confirm at least one of my theories, and how disappointed I was when they pulled the rug out from under me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Risto said:

4. Any news on Leia in Episode 9?

Shorty after Fisher's death someone at Disney said they wouldn't CGI her into the movies (other than Rouge One which was already done.) I've seen a lot of people suggest that IX could open at her funeral / memorial. Or take place five to ten years after VIII and have her cause of death be a minor mystery that is eventually explained in dialogue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

I had been telling people for years that the answer to both would be Chewie. You can imagine how excited I was when it seemed the movie was about to confirm at least one of my theories, and how disappointed I was when they pulled the rug out from under me.

I admit the odds on your answer were better than the odds on mine (that both would be C3PO), but I share your wrongness pain nevertheless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

You...think this was an Empire retread?

I think they overplayed the narrative similarities between this and original franchise. At some point, new story would be really nice. So far, I feel as if the differences are not as substantial as one would like. I understand nostalgia, but this is becoming borderline annoying.

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Shorty after Fisher's death someone at Disney said they wouldn't CGI her into the movies (other than Rouge One which was already done.) I've seen a lot of people suggest that IX could open at her funeral / memorial. Or take place five to ten years after VIII and have her cause of death be a minor mystery that is eventually explained in dialogue. 

Well, I think that the explosion would have been a good exit, if there will be no exit. I would have preferred Leia to die and others pick up the pieces, than to have some sort of exposition about her death in Episode 9. 

That said, recasting Leia... I am not sure how I feel about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that's the first time I've heard the nostalgia complaint in regards to 8. Most people seem to think it went out of it's way too much to avoid nostalgia.

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I believe they have stated they won't recast Leia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:

Well, that's the first time I've heard the nostalgia complaint in regards to 8. Most people seem to think it went out of it's way too much to avoid nostalgia.

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I believe they have stated they won't recast Leia.

I think the narrative skeleton is basically the same as in ESB. The bad guys have advantage now, while the hero is stuck far away with the Jedi master being taught the secrets of Jedi, only to face the Emperor and his lackey Jedi alone. The lackey Jedi kills the Emperor to protect the loved one. In the meantime, we have a rebellious guy who defies orders. We also have dog robots and some extra stuff (Finn story) which proved to be THE MOST USELESS storyarc I have ever seen on big screen. The guy could have stayed in coma, for all the impact he had in this movie.

The thing is... I believe they wanted to avoid nostalgia, but I am afraid they haven't had an original thought to do so.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly feel like you didn't watch the movie.

And uh, dog robots?

 

Edit: watch, not want

Edited by Darth Richard II

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The actions of Rose and Finn on Canto Bight didn’t help the Resistance (if anything it harmed them in terms of brining DJ into the mix) but they did serve to hammer home the message about lighting the spark of rebellion among the oppressed. Now you can argue about how well that was executed but it would be incorrect to say they had zero impact.

I personally thought the sequence itself was not as bad as everyone makes out, although it felt forced into this particular film because of the timeframe that was being used (18 hours I believe). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I honestly feel like you didn't want the movie.

And uh, dog robots?

Isn’t that Black Mirror?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Isn’t that Black Mirror?

that should say watch, and yeah i uh..dog robots? what?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

The actions of Rose and Finn on Canto Bight didn’t help the Resistance (if anything it harmed them in terms of brining DJ into the mix) but they did serve to hammer home the message about lighting the spark of rebellion among the oppressed. Now you can argue about how well that was executed but it would be incorrect to say they had zero impact.

I personally thought the sequence itself was not as bad as everyone makes out, although it felt forced into this particular film because of the timeframe that was being used (18 hours I believe). 

Not only did Finn and Rose not help but it directly led to the deaths of hundreds. If they had not brought DJ (i assume) into it and told him the escape plan then he wouldn't have told the 1st order about the cloaked ships leaving the main one. All of those people and Luke died because of the Casino plot. The ships would have reached the planet undetected and Luke wouldn't have needed to sacrifice himself to stall Kylo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Risto said:

only to face the Emperor and his lackey Jedi alone. The lackey Jedi kills the Emperor to protect the loved one.

My complaint here is that this portion was extremely reminiscent of ROTJ, not ESB - except Vader lives this time.  When Kylo and Rey are going up the elevator it's almost the exact same conversation Luke and Vader have outside of Rey telling Kylo "then my Ren is truly dead" at the end.

12 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Not only did Finn and Rose not help but it directly led to the deaths of hundreds. If they had not brought DJ (i assume) into it and told him the escape plan then he wouldn't have told the 1st order about the cloaked ships leaving the main one. All of those people and Luke died because of the Casino plot. The ships would have reached the planet undetected and Luke wouldn't have needed to sacrifice himself to stall Kylo.

Yup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Risto said:

I think the narrative skeleton is basically the same as in ESB. The bad guys have advantage now, while the hero is stuck far away with the Jedi master being taught the secrets of Jedi, only to face the Emperor and his lackey Jedi alone. The lackey Jedi kills the Emperor to protect the loved one.

Yeah, it takes a lot from ESB. The main plot is basically the assault on Hoth, but mostly taking place on spaceships and stretched out across the whole movie, and with far, far higher rebel casualties before the rest escape. Meanwhile Rey is on Dagobah Island, seeking training from a Jedi master (though she doesn't get any to speak of) and visiting a dark side cave (though what the vision is supposed to mean is far less clear) before going off to face Vader's grandson, getting a revelation about her family and failing in her goal (though this confrontation obviously borrows a great deal from RotJ as well). And the final fight is strongly reminiscent of Kenobi vs Vader in ANH. The Canto Bight section is the most original part, though DJ's role is a bit Lando-ish minus the redemption. It lacks any equivalent of the main characters interacting with each other on Hoth, and again on Bespin, instead keeping Rey's story entirely independent which I think is a serious flaw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Risto said:

I think the narrative skeleton is basically the same as in ESB.

Your summary is basically the middle book/film/other section of any trilogy ever. That's how they're structured: in part 2 the bad guys are ascendant and the good guys are struggling to survive. They achieve some minor victories to stave off total defeat and regroup to come back in part 3.

Edited by mormont

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I honestly feel like you didn't watch the movie.

And uh, dog robots?

Unfortunately, I did... And this is what I call dog robots (why I do that, I have no idea)

11 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

The actions of Rose and Finn on Canto Bight didn’t help the Resistance (if anything it harmed them in terms of brining DJ into the mix) but they did serve to hammer home the message about lighting the spark of rebellion among the oppressed. Now you can argue about how well that was executed but it would be incorrect to say they had zero impact.

I personally thought the sequence itself was not as bad as everyone makes out, although it felt forced into this particular film because of the timeframe that was being used (18 hours I believe). 

Well, I was more pissed that Finn didn't run into that Mini-DeathStar, because that would be kinda awesome (for former Stormtrooper to hit at least once). I understand your point, but for me, it seems that they literally did nothing.

10 hours ago, dmc515 said:

My complaint here is that this portion was extremely reminiscent of ROTJ, not ESB - except Vader lives this time.  When Kylo and Rey are going up the elevator it's almost the exact same conversation Luke and Vader have outside of Rey telling Kylo "then my Ren is truly dead" at the end.

Yeah, they all fused into one for me. It's been couple of years since I watched the original trilogy. That said, for those arguing that Kylo and Vader are different, are we sure that Vader would do differently if he was relatively healthy and his powers preserved?

1 hour ago, mormont said:

Your summary is basically the middle book/film/other section of any trilogy ever. That's how they're structured: in part 2 the bad guys are ascendant and the good guys are struggling to survive. They achieve some minor victories to stave off total defeat and regroup to come back in part 3.

You got me there. For so many reasons, this movie just didn't work for me. Even FA with all its nostalgia was entertaining, this one, simply wasn't. They tried so hard and achieved nothing (with me at least). Well, I stand corrected. I enjoyed Laura Dern's role. For me, the entire movie is written like one big attempt to create a quotable line and every dialogue, every uttered sentence fought to be that line. I know many will consider this blasphemy, but the dialogue reminded me of Season 6/7 of GoT. And Poe being the new Solo annoyed me as hell.

Oh, and I forgot. This is something related to Serbian translation. "The Last Jedi" refers to one person - Luke (I suppose) or more people (Luke and Rey). Because in Serbian cinemas, the "Jedi" in movie's title was translated as plural, not singular. 

And I forgot to say that those Sith had the coolest weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Risto said:

Unfortunately, I did... And this is what I call dog robots (why I do that, I have no idea)

Well, I was more pissed that Finn didn't run into that Mini-DeathStar, because that would be kinda awesome (for former Stormtrooper to hit at least once). I understand your point, but for me, it seems that they literally did nothing.

Yeah, they all fused into one for me. It's been couple of years since I watched the original trilogy. That said, for those arguing that Kylo and Vader are different, are we sure that Vader would do differently if he was relatively healthy and his powers preserved?

You got me there. For so many reasons, this movie just didn't work for me. Even FA with all its nostalgia was entertaining, this one, simply wasn't. They tried so hard and achieved nothing (with me at least). Well, I stand corrected. I enjoyed Laura Dern's role. For me, the entire movie is written like one big attempt to create a quotable line and every dialogue, every uttered sentence fought to be that line. I know many will consider this blasphemy, but the dialogue reminded me of Season 6/7 of GoT. And Poe being the new Solo annoyed me as hell.

Oh, and I forgot. This is something related to Serbian translation. "The Last Jedi" refers to one person - Luke (I suppose) or more people (Luke and Rey). Because in Serbian cinemas, the "Jedi" in movie's title was translated as plural, not singular. 

And I forgot to say that those Sith had the coolest weapons.

When the title was revealed, its translation in other languages was done in plural, leading to much speculation. I think the movie makes it clear, though.

And those "Sith" were called Praetorian Guards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

When the title was revealed, its translation in other languages was done in plural, leading to much speculation. I think the movie makes it clear, though.

And those "Sith" were called Praetorian Guards.

Thanks... It also caused a bit of discussion here in Serbia. For me, at least, it is rather clear what the title is referring to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now