Bronn Stone

The Last Jedi (Spoilers): Force-Choke or Tour-de-Force?

313 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, dbunting said:

I think they force fed the movie to hook little kids too much and in doing so couldn't, or wouldn't do what would have really worked. Had they included a couple scenes into TPM showing Anakin using his powers without realizing it, when angry or tense, it would have helped us believe his turn. I mean they had his life of slavery and such to get his character to be jealous and angry but chose to show him as a happy go lucky kid instead. One time, had they maybe had him get angry and say a crack appeared in a wall...or while pod racing, had the person who was bumping him crashed after Anakin made an angry scowl at him or a "force" hand gesture then maybe it would have been an easier transition. But no, they chose to do a blood test, a freaking blood test to tell us how powerful he was.

I mean, FFS you use CGI for everything in that POS movie and instead of showing us his force abilities you used the Maury Povich meathod...to Anakins assumed dad, "The results are back and you are not the father!!! Anakin is instead an immaculate inception!!!..." cut to a scene of the dad either dancing or crying...

 

And he should never have started his story as a kid. Teenager would have been better in TPM, show that maybe he has dark moods from the beginning. And it would not have made the Council's stance that he is "too old" so ridiculous. Are the Jedi taking babies from the cradle to train them?

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16 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

And he should never have started his story as a kid. Teenager would have been better in TPM, show that maybe he has dark moods from the beginning. And it would not have made the Council's stance that he is "too old" so ridiculous. Are the Jedi taking babies from the cradle to train them?

Er actually yes, they do.

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14 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

And he should never have started his story as a kid. Teenager would have been better in TPM, show that maybe he has dark moods from the beginning. And it would not have made the Council's stance that he is "too old" so ridiculous. Are the Jedi taking babies from the cradle to train them?

I agree, that would have been better.  I think that perhaps what pisses me off the more than anything in the prequel trilogy was just what an incredible missed opportunity they were.  There are just enough glimmers of a great story there (particularly in Ep. 3), but they are just overwhelmed by strange plot decisions, bad dialogue and quickly outdated CGI.  Great ideas they hint at and could have explored:

 - The Jedi Council and Yoda were a failure.  They failed to identify the threat to the Republic and their insistence on repressing your emotions pushed Anakin to the dark side. 

 - The Jedi Council (perhaps with the best intentions) had become political players in the Republic.  Windu wanted to assassinate the elected leader of the Republic because he didn't trust the institutions in place to try him fairly.  That's...not acceptable, and Anakin killing Windu was not the "moral event horizon" it is portrayed.

 - This could give the confrontation between Obi-Wan and Anakin actual meat, instead of a boring good vs evil showdown.  Anakin's line "from my perspective the jedi are evil!" is SOOO bad, but that sentiment could have made ep. 3 great if they'd executed it well.

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28 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Er actually yes, they do.

Well that's just dumb.

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7 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Well that's just dumb.

But could have been worked into the plot if well executed. Taking young children from their families and teaching them to sever all emotional ties and stop being such whiny emotional cry babies isn’t exactly a good approach. And with Anakin, leaving his mother behind in slavery could have been explored far more as a motivation but instead we got some botch job on Tatooine in Episode II which I always tune out for

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On 1/17/2018 at 6:14 PM, Davrum said:

Neeson was the best of the actors playing good guys for sure, but the MVP of the PT is Ian McDiarmid without a shadow of a doubt.

Loved him up until the big reveal in Ep 3.  It goes downhill real quick from there.

And who the fuck did his makeup after that?  He looks drastically different than the OT, which is one of the big draws of getting the same actor to play the role.

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11 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Loved him up until the big reveal in Ep 3.  It goes downhill real quick from there.

And who the fuck did his makeup after that?  He looks drastically different than the OT, which is one of the big draws of getting the same actor to play the role.

Wasn't the initial Palpatine hologram (the creepy, bug-eyed one) in TESB played by a woman?

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47 minutes ago, Astromech said:

Wasn't the initial Palpatine hologram (the creepy, bug-eyed one) in TESB played by a woman?

Yeah, it wasn't Ian McDirmid in ESB.

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1 minute ago, GallowKnight said:

Yeah, it wasn't Ian McDirmid in ESB.

Yeah, they went back and edited those in with the shitty makeup version at the end of Ep 3 for the DVD release.  That's also when we got Hayden Christensen in ROTJ :ack:

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6 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Yeah, they went back and edited those in with the shitty makeup version at the end of Ep 3 for the DVD release.  That's also when we got Hayden Christensen in ROTJ :ack:

Haha, the original theatrical releases are the only films that exist. Han shot first.

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38 minutes ago, Astromech said:

Haha, the original theatrical releases are the only films that exist. Han shot first.

Still own my VHS versions of the original and special editions, though I don't own a VHS player :)

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21 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

But could have been worked into the plot if well executed. Taking young children from their families and teaching them to sever all emotional ties and stop being such whiny emotional cry babies isn’t exactly a good approach. And with Anakin, leaving his mother behind in slavery could have been explored far more as a motivation but instead we got some botch job on Tatooine in Episode II which I always tune out for

I think this gets to the heart of the problem with the prequels. They’re supposed to be the story of how Vader became Vader, but instead of getting a thoughtful look at how the Chosen One could have become the greatest villain in the galaxy we got a handful of melodramatic scenes that mostly didn’t make much sense from the perspectives of the characters involved. Lucas never showed us why Anikin was so petulant, arrogant, and angry; never showed us why Obi-wan cared so deeply about him; and certainly never showed us why Padme would ever have any romantic interest in him whatsoever. Guess there just wasn’t enough room for character development what with all the cool CGI fights that needed to be in the films.

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16 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Lucas never showed us why Anikin was so petulant, arrogant, and angry;

I can see why he would be harbouring some anger, having been a slave all his life then leaving his mother behind in slavery, never knowing what became of her. Maybe he was angry at himself for not being able to free her.

In terms of arrogance, maybe if he had people talking of how he had the highest count of midi-chlorians anyone had ever seen, or had people telling him how he was so strong, despite starting his Jedi training ‘late’, he probably would develop a bloated head. IIRC, in AotC, Palpatine tells Anakin that he thinks he will become the strongest Jedi of all time. All that praise coming at him is likely to have caused the arrogance, while the lack of praise coming from Obi-Wan could have caused the petulance and the need to act out.

The problem I have is that he is such a nice kid in TPM, and seems so excited by the prospect of becoming a Jedi that it seems so unlikely he would have turned out to be the way he was in AotC. It’s almost as if Lucas realised Anakin in TPM was too likeable to be believable as a young Darth Vader so he tried to completely change his nature to make him easier to dislike, without giving clear reasons why he became that way. All the audience could do was guess why he might have changed so much in ten years. 

 

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