Rises in the West

[Bastard of Starfall]

Alright, so I got a half-baked one, but I still think it might be significant. And I'm not sure whether I can claim credit for it, because although I don't think I've ever seen it before I "came up with it", I can't be certain.

I think that the prophecy/curse of Mirri Maz Duur is coming to a close.

To recap: after Dany has the godswife save Khal Drogo's life only for him to end up in a coma, Daenerys asks, "When will he be as he was?", to which follows:

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Now, needless to say, Mirri is more than just a healer. She performs blood magic before our very eyes, and she claims to have learned westerosi healing arts from none other than Maester Marwyn, who is so learned in everything mystical that he's got Valyrian steel " mask and ring and rod" and has "the Mage" as a nickname. I believe Mirri, perhaps unwittingly, made a sort of prophecy.

The line that has me convinced is the one about the sun. I find it sort of transparent that it refers to Quentyn Martell. He hails from Dorne in Westeros, travels east to Meereen, and promptly gets himself killed. I believe this qualifies as "rises in the west and sets in the east". Coincidences may be a real thing in the real world, but not in literature, definitely not in THIS literature. Now, as for the rest, that's why I say my theory is half-baked - my ideas are as vague as they come. "The seas go dry" could refer to the Ironborn, who are getting increasingly significant, or perhaps to the arid Dothraki Sea, or to something else entirely. "The mountains blow in the wind like leaves" point me to the Mountain, who may or may not already be sort of dead, and may or may not be set up for a second death. Or it might mean some literal mountains getting destroyed, which Euron Greyjoy's supposed prepared blood magic sacrifice cataclysm shenanigans can easily cause. And the last two lines, the one about wombs and children and the one about Drogo returning, confound me utterly. It could mean the dragons, or literal children which we are yet to see. It could mean a metaphorical return, something spiritually significant for Dany. Or something else which I hope you fellows can spot where I haven't. Or it might be the loose thread that causes this whole theory to unravel.

Thoughts?

[divica]

33 minutes ago, Bastard of Starfall said:

Alright, so I got a half-baked one, but I still think it might be significant. And I'm not sure whether I can claim credit for it, because although I don't think I've ever seen it before I "came up with it", I can't be certain.

I think that the prophecy/curse of Mirri Maz Duur is coming to a close.

To recap: after Dany has the godswife save Khal Drogo's life only for him to end up in a coma, Daenerys asks, "When will he be as he was?", to which follows:

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Now, needless to say, Mirri is more than just a healer. She performs blood magic before our very eyes, and she claims to have learned westerosi healing arts from none other than Maester Marwyn, who is so learned in everything mystical that he's got Valyrian steel " mask and ring and rod" and has "the Mage" as a nickname. I believe Mirri, perhaps unwittingly, made a sort of prophecy.

The line that has me convinced is the one about the sun. I find it sort of transparent that it refers to Quentyn Martell. He hails from Dorne in Westeros, travels east to Meereen, and promptly gets himself killed. I believe this qualifies as "rises in the west and sets in the east". Coincidences may be a real thing in the real world, but not in literature, definitely not in THIS literature. Now, as for the rest, that's why I say my theory is half-baked - my ideas are as vague as they come. "The seas go dry" could refer to the Ironborn, who are getting increasingly significant, or perhaps to the arid Dothraki Sea, or to something else entirely. "The mountains blow in the wind like leaves" point me to the Mountain, who may or may not already be sort of dead, and may or may not be set up for a second death. Or it might mean some literal mountains getting destroyed, which Euron Greyjoy's supposed prepared blood magic sacrifice cataclysm shenanigans can easily cause. And the last two lines, the one about wombs and children and the one about Drogo returning, confound me utterly. It could mean the dragons, or literal children which we are yet to see. It could mean a metaphorical return, something spiritually significant for Dany. Or something else which I hope you fellows can spot where I haven't. Or it might be the loose thread that causes this whole theory to unravel.

Thoughts?

There are a lot of theories about this. Like the sea refers to the dothriaki sea and the mountain to the piramids of meereen or something like that...

In my opinion mirri was just using an artistic way of say NEVER! I don t think it was a profecy or curse...

[aryagonnakill#2]

She certainly wasn't trying to, and Drago obviously isn't coming back, but ya I do think that everything she said is happening.  Perhaps that means Dany is not long for this world, as that's the only way she would see him again.

[Megorova]

"When the seas go dry" - frozen water? seas covered in ice?

[AlaskanSandman]

4 hours ago, Bastard of Starfall said:

Alright, so I got a half-baked one, but I still think it might be significant. And I'm not sure whether I can claim credit for it, because although I don't think I've ever seen it before I "came up with it", I can't be certain.

I think that the prophecy/curse of Mirri Maz Duur is coming to a close.

To recap: after Dany has the godswife save Khal Drogo's life only for him to end up in a coma, Daenerys asks, "When will he be as he was?", to which follows:

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Now, needless to say, Mirri is more than just a healer. She performs blood magic before our very eyes, and she claims to have learned westerosi healing arts from none other than Maester Marwyn, who is so learned in everything mystical that he's got Valyrian steel " mask and ring and rod" and has "the Mage" as a nickname. I believe Mirri, perhaps unwittingly, made a sort of prophecy.

The line that has me convinced is the one about the sun. I find it sort of transparent that it refers to Quentyn Martell. He hails from Dorne in Westeros, travels east to Meereen, and promptly gets himself killed. I believe this qualifies as "rises in the west and sets in the east". Coincidences may be a real thing in the real world, but not in literature, definitely not in THIS literature. Now, as for the rest, that's why I say my theory is half-baked - my ideas are as vague as they come. "The seas go dry" could refer to the Ironborn, who are getting increasingly significant, or perhaps to the arid Dothraki Sea, or to something else entirely. "The mountains blow in the wind like leaves" point me to the Mountain, who may or may not already be sort of dead, and may or may not be set up for a second death. Or it might mean some literal mountains getting destroyed, which Euron Greyjoy's supposed prepared blood magic sacrifice cataclysm shenanigans can easily cause. And the last two lines, the one about wombs and children and the one about Drogo returning, confound me utterly. It could mean the dragons, or literal children which we are yet to see. It could mean a metaphorical return, something spiritually significant for Dany. Or something else which I hope you fellows can spot where I haven't. Or it might be the loose thread that causes this whole theory to unravel.

Thoughts?

I have pondered this before too and agree. 

Sun setting in the west= Quentyn

Sea's go dry== the silver sea is dry. Ghis used to be fertile.

The mountains blowing= the pyramids of meereen and yunkai etc. 

Womb Quicking again= Happens in the Dothraki sea in her last chapter.

Drogo will return= Really not drogo probably, really probably "The Stallion Who Mounts the World". IMO. Dany's child will be the Stallion who Mounts the World. But Rhaego and Drogo are dead.

Yet, there are some other people that seem hell bent on getting children. The Others. 

I think this ties into what the Great Other or Night's King really wants.

Jon is dead, but will be revived we all know. 

I think him and Dany will have a child. But since Jon is already dead. The child will be "Never Born" with out a soul to resist a take over or, 2nd life. Something we know skinchangers have. What is the Great Other or Night's King if not skinchanging the armies of the Dead. He controlled the Night's watch through necromancy. He was likely a warg and greenseerer. 

This is how i think he means to break the curse on him via the curse on the Great Barrow.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

4 hours ago, divica said:

In my opinion mirri was just using an artistic way of say NEVER! I don't think it was a profecy or curse...

I agree with this.  I've heard a lot about Quentyn being the sun rising in the west and setting in the east, and I think GRRM had this in mind as something people will interpret at the time he wrote it and possibly wanted folks to consider and debate, but its not what was really intended.  I'm sure it doesn't actually matter as TWOW will never be released.

[Damon_Tor]

5 hours ago, Bastard of Starfall said:

. And the last two lines, the one about wombs and children and the one about Drogo returning, confound me utterly. It could mean the dragons, or literal children which we are yet to see. It could mean a metaphorical return, something spiritually significant for Dany. Or something else which I hope you fellows can spot where I haven't. Or it might be the loose thread that causes this whole theory to unravel.

For one, note what she says. She's making a statement that follows a question, but we shouldn't necessarily infer that she's answering the question being asked. "Only then will he return". "He" not "Drogo". For my money, she's talking about Rhaego. Whose birth had no witnesses except MMD and whose body was disposed of before anyone reliable could look at it. Rhaego isn't dead.

[Curled Finger]

40 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I have pondered this before too and agree. 

Sun setting in the west= Quentyn

Sea's go dry== the silver sea is dry. Ghis used to be fertile.

The mountains blowing= the pyramids of meereen and yunkai etc. 

Womb Quicking again= Happens in the Dothraki sea in her last chapter

Most of that fits.  When a woman's womb quickens she is pregnant. Quickening is feeling a fetus move.  Dany's not pregnant.   She's only bleeding.  Could be natural moon cycle, could be miscarriage.   Either way there is no quickening here, friend.   Could it be there is a chronology to this and these prophesied events happen in the manner spoken?  That would require a volcano or other catastrophe (or just war in Mereen) then we should look for Dany to become pregnant.   Just a thought. 

[Curled Finger]

13 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

For one, note what she says. She's making a statement that follows a question, but we shouldn't necessarily infer that she's answering the question being asked. "Only then will he return". "He" not "Drogo". For my money, she's talking about Rhaego. Whose birth had no witnesses except MMD and whose body was disposed of before anyone reliable could look at it. Rhaego isn't dead.

You think he's hanging out with Ashara and Lysa's babies?   Actually I don't think I've seen that before, but it is an awfully good point that we don't see Rhaego.   No corpse, no crime.  

[Lost Melnibonean]

OP, you might like this, or not. 

[Bastard of Starfall]

@Lost Melnibonean Yeah man, you've got me convinced alright. Thanks. And can I just say what an honor it is to actually spark a discussion? I'm new to this theorising business and I usually just join in on pointless arguments, but this is a lot more fun TBH.

[AlaskanSandman]

6 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Most of that fits.  When a woman's womb quickens she is pregnant. Quickening is feeling a fetus move.  Dany's not pregnant.   She's only bleeding.  Could be natural moon cycle, could be miscarriage.   Either way there is no quickening here, friend.   Could it be there is a chronology to this and these prophesied events happen in the manner spoken?  That would require a volcano or other catastrophe (or just war in Mereen) then we should look for Dany to become pregnant.   Just a thought. 

Oops, my bad, that's what i meant haha she has her period again, which means she can possibly have a kid again. 

My bad  

[The Lord of the Crossing]

12 hours ago, divica said:

There are a lot of theories about this. Like the sea refers to the dothriaki sea and the mountain to the piramids of meereen or something like that...

In my opinion mirri was just using an artistic way of say NEVER! I don t think it was a profecy or curse...

I concur.  Mirri had a strange way of talking and this is her way of saying "it's not happening"  This conversation also took place before Drogo's funeral fire so even if he had a chance of getting his mind back at the time . . . now there is no coming back from getting cremated. 

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Oops, my bad, that's what i meant haha she has her period again, which means she can possibly have a kid again. 

My bad  

Not bad.   It's an almost colloquial term many people misunderstand.   I don't know if Dany had a cursed womb or not, but it is a very interesting time for her body to resume normal activity.  For my money, I think you're right in that Dany may become pregnant again.   These prophecies and curses are a pain to unravel, so I'm sticking with chronology!  

[AlaskanSandman]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Not bad.   It's an almost colloquial term many people misunderstand.   I don't know if Dany had a cursed womb or not, but it is a very interesting time for her body to resume normal activity.  For my money, I think you're right in that Dany may become pregnant again.   These prophecies and curses are a pain to unravel, so I'm sticking with chronology!  

I think her fate might be tied to this idea i had about Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa mating.

a-cold-sheath-for-a-hot-crystal-sword/\

And yes they are lol but i like puzzles 

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Maybe it's because I've had this on my mind since giving Dany VIII in Game another read, but the descriptions Dany gives of the dancing shadows have me wondering about the lasting effect of MMD's blood magic and how long Dany will feel these effects since she's been in the tent.

If we take Quentyn Martell as the sun rising in the west and setting in the east, then the blood magic might be winding down just now, at the end of ADWD. 

I don't know if this was ever discussed, but it brings me to Patchface's riddle in the Prologue of Clash

Quote

The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord. The shadows come to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord. (ACOK, Prologue)

I wonder if MMD's magic and Patchface's riddle are connected. Dany sees shadows in the tent, she calls them shapes and dancers. She says MMD was dancing, and not alone. Maybe Dany was going to be surrounded with those shadows for a time until the blood magic wore off.

[divica]

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Oops, my bad, that's what i meant haha she has her period again, which means she can possibly have a kid again. 

My bad  

but she didn t have her period before?

I don t remember danny saying that she had stopped having periods.

[AlaskanSandman]

4 minutes ago, divica said:

but she didn t have her period before?

I don t remember danny saying that she had stopped having periods.

Its not, its implied by Dany's thoughts on not being able to birth any more.

[divica]

2 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Its not, its implied by Dany's thoughts on not being able to birth any more.

But she thinks she can t have babies because she was cursed by mirri. We never hear danny lamenting about having lost her period. 

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, divica said:

But she thinks she can t have babies because she was cursed by mirri. We never hear danny lamenting about having lost her period. 

yep