Martell Spy

U.S. Politics: A Wolff In Sheep's Clothing

402 posts in this topic

So annoyed with all the #Oprah2020 shit going around and articles about how she's 'actively considering'.  How about she just actively assist a qualified candidate?  Or actively assist qualified candidates get into local, state and federal seats?  It's all ego for these billionaires to try to be president. We need to hope that this reality show fiasco will end in 2020 or with impeachment, not continue.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mexal said:

She's a pretty amazing, inspiring woman that I'm sure would put the time and effort into learning everything she would need to in order to credibly run.

That being said, I want someone who has held office too. Being president isn't something you can easily learn on the fly.

Not and do the office justice.

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Mexal said:

She's a pretty amazing, inspiring woman that I'm sure would put the time and effort into learning everything she would need to in order to credibly run.


Even if she credibly runs- and honestly, running against Trump, I think she'd have a shot at winning even if she runs the most casual way possible- the problem I'm seeing is after she's done, what then? Right now, from where I'm sitting (admittedly, a long way away), there's at least some movement from people realising there are serious entrenched problems with the Democratic party that need resolving. If Oprah runs I can see much of that movement dissolving, setting everything back to square one once she's finished because if we think the GOP went mental during Obama's tenure, how do we think they're gonna react to Oprah? They're gonna united in shitheadedness even more if that's possible.

Like Dr. Pepper says, she should put her time and energy into getting someone elected who is actually somewhat qualified to do the job.

Edited by polishgenius

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I don't even know where Oprah has official residency.  Why wouldn't she at least run for local office, or hell, even for a congressional seat?  It's pure laziness and ego on her part to even think she deserves something better right out of the starting gate.  

Trump feels like a killing blow to America.  It's all downward slide from here.  An Oprah presidency would be part of that downward slide. 

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

So annoyed with all the #Oprah2020 shit going around and articles about how she's 'actively considering'.  How about she just actively assist a qualified candidate?  Or actively assist qualified candidates get into local, state and federal seats?  It's all ego for these billionaires to try to be president. We need to hope that this reality show fiasco will end in 2020 or with impeachment, not continue.

 

Yup, or if she really wants to run for something, why not run for a local or state seat? The Democrats need to get away from seeing the Presidency as the Big Shiny Toy, with nothing else mattering. Everything else matters! This is exactly how the Republicans got such a strangle-hold on the country: they started with winning elections to county school boards and worked their way up. Democrats better learn how to do the same, for f*ck's sake! 

As kick-ass as Oprah's speech was, I can't help but feel that it is setting the stage for the Democrats to abandon all the hard-earned lessons of the past year!

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I don't even know where Oprah has official residency.  Why wouldn't she at least run for local office, or hell, even for a congressional seat?  It's pure laziness and ego on her part to even think she deserves something better right out of the starting gate.  

Trump feels like a killing blow to America.  It's all downward slide from here.  An Oprah presidency would be part of that downward slide. 

Yup, took the words right out of my mouth!

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Think bigger!:

 

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Yeah, shit's getting dark. They're talking about her on CNN, and at least they are not at all receptive to the idea besides this shithead who worked for HRC, but it's not a good moment for America.

It occurs that she could provide a massive Dem wave just in time for the census, but there is no way I'd vote for a single Dem on the ticket unless they promised to bring forth articles of impeachment against her on the first day of her Presidency.

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@GAROVORKIN

A note about sorry ass loserville centrism.


Sorry ass loserville centrism is the handmaiden of sorry ass conservatism. It’s just watered down version of conservatism, as it’s just a person that does a simple average of conservative nuttery and liberalism and thinks they’ve come out somewhere being reasonable. But, given how fuckin’ nutty conservatism has been lately they don’t end up being anywhere ball park reasonable because they simply  fail to weight their average appropriately, taking into account just how bats hit crazy conservatives have become and the Republican Party.

I don’t mind centrist per se, but the ones that do “both sides” are a joke. And there is no good reason to try to placate them.

If a person is truly a centrist and they voted for Trump and haven’t figured out by now, they got played by Trump and the Republican Party,  I don’t think that person should be taken all that seriously. In fact, they probably are buffoons.

If somebody was truly a centrist, and they’ve figured out they fucked up by voting for Trump, I personally would welcome their  vote against Trump and the Republicans, but that same person really ought not have to be persuaded that he got hoodwinked by Trump and Republicans. And certainly, in order to get these centrist back, the Democratic Party should not have to play to white cultural grievances.

It seems to me that a lot of these “centrist” will always, in come kind of concern troll manner, tell Democrats not to get “too liberal”, but yet don’t seem to tell Republicans not to get “too conservative”.

A lot of these centrist are confused anyway and don’t know what they hell they precisely want. I don’t think it’s a particularly good long term strategy for the Democratic Party to change it’s platform and what it stands for every election cycle to try to get these wishy washy centrist, who can’t ever seem to make up their mind.

Allegedly, at some point, Margaret Thatcher was supposed to have held up a copy of Road To Serfdom (or as I like to call it, Road To Libertarian Horseshit) to Friedrich Hayek and said, “this is what we believe”. And indeed it seem she did as Thatcher and her allies were seemingly successful in pushing out the Disraelian wing of the Conservative Party, or the so called Red Tories, taking control of the Conservative party and pushing the UK to the right.

And similarly it seems to me, that Conservatives here in the United States, did the same after the complete shellacking of Barry Goldwater. They didn’t say, “oh well, time to triangulate!” Nope they stuck to their guns and were successful. They were able to push the center to the right.

And it seems to me that liberals should be more willing to stick to their guns to push the center back to the left, then always worrying about the wishy washy centrist vote. At some point Democrats and liberals need to hold up something and say “This is what we believe”.

The problem with us liberals is on every issue we often like to read three policy white papers and hear everyone one’s opinion and not risk looking to confrontational, leading to shit like liberals being afraid to call themselves liberals. And while I certainly don’t mind a wonky and well informed approach to policy issues, I think we need a bit of what I’d call “Street Fight Liberalism” that isn’t shy about confronting conservative clowns, and making them defend their bullshit.

In less than 20 years, I’ve watched Republicans and Conservatives elect two clowns as president and then completely botch weighty policy matters from international relations, to war, to weighty economic matters. And now the Republican Party in the most blatant way possible has shown it’s true colors, kissing up to plutocrats and white resentment. This is no time to worry about wishy washy centrist that can't make up their mind in the face of evidence. This is the time to clobber the Republican Party and conservatives and to put them on the hot seat and  make them try to defend their bullshit.

If you’ve read enough Conservative foreign policy wonks, you know according to them every situation is Munich 1938. If anything this day is Munich 1938, I’d say it’s the appeasement of Republicans and conservatives. And it would be an error to appease these people in order to get wishy washy centrist who don’t know really what they hell they want or really aren’t centrist at all.

But, also, there are lot of policy issues Democrats can win on, like corporate taxes, minimum wage, and other matters where it isn’t necessary to be too compromising with the Republican Party or conservatives. Conservatives have shown they are quite willing to play hardball to get what they want, and liberals better do the same.

And of course, it’s just a better strategy for the Democrats to appeal to their own natural base, rather than trying to appeal to so called centrist, who at this time can’t make up their mind that Trump and the Republicans are full of crap. If those people haven’t figured that out by now, one wonders whether they ever will.

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When is that State of the Union speech that our fearless leaders Chuck and Nancy have been holding out for? 'Cause Donnie doesn't seem to be backing down on this wall business. 

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Posted (edited)

57 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Even if she credibly runs- and honestly, running against Trump, I think she'd have a shot at winning even if she runs the most casual way possible- the problem I'm seeing is after she's done, what then? Right now, from where I'm sitting (admittedly, a long way away), there's at least some movement from people realising there are serious entrenched problems with the Democratic party that need resolving. If Oprah runs I can see much of that movement dissolving, setting everything back to square one once she's finished because if we think the GOP went mental during Obama's tenure, how do we think they're gonna react to Oprah? They're gonna united in shitheadedness even more if that's possible.

Like Dr. Pepper says, she should put her time and energy into getting someone elected who is actually somewhat qualified to do the job.

I mean, the Democratic party isn't going to do much soul searching if they run Biden or Sanders/Warren and their far left agenda isn't going to help either. The party has issues that I don't see being resolved by the 2020 candidate.

30 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Yeah, shit's getting dark. They're talking about her on CNN, and at least they are not at all receptive to the idea besides this shithead who worked for HRC, but it's not a good moment for America.

It occurs that she could provide a massive Dem wave just in time for the census, but there is no way I'd vote for a single Dem on the ticket unless they promised to bring forth articles of impeachment against her on the first day of her Presidency.

Articles of impeachment for what? 

In other news, Ed Royce is retiring. Clinton won that district by +9.

 

Edited by Mexal

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11 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I mean, the Democratic party isn't going to do much soul searching if they run Biden or Sanders/Warren and their far left agenda isn't going to help either. The party has issues that I don't see being resolved by the 2020 candidate.

Articles of impeachment for what? 

In other news, Ed Royce is retiring. Clinton won that district by +9.

 

For being an unqualified TV personality.

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Posted (edited)

Trumps religious advisor speaks:

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2018/01/trumps-spiritual-advisor-give-money-suffer-consequences/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=BRSS&utm_campaign=Nonreligious&utm_content=367

Quote

Popular televangelist Paula White is urging her followers to donate a “first fruits” offering of up to their entire salary for the month of January to enjoy “blessings” for the rest of the year or suffer the “consequences” of failing to follow God’s command.

 

The money grubbing charlatan tried to justify her blatant attempt at extortion on her website by explaining “The Principles of First Fruits”:

Each January, I put God first and honor Him with the first of our substance by sowing a first fruits offering of one month’s pay. That is a big sacrifice, but it is a seed for the harvest I am believing for in the coming year. And God always provides!

White explains that if her followers do not give her money they will be punished by God because:

God lays claim to all firsts. So when you keep for yourself something that belongs to God you are desecrating what is to be consecrated to God.

Edited by ThinkerX

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Oh yes, Oprah for President by all means. Maybe Dr. Phil can be Surgeon General. What other hucksters has she elevated with her platform?

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1 hour ago, Ormond said:

Oh, please, no. Although Oprah Winfrey (along with 95% of the eligible American population) would be a much better President than Trump. I really don't want to follow one television celebrity millionaire with another. Surely if Trump shows anything it's that having some previous experience in political office before becoming President is a very good idea. 

Agree.  Please no.  I really do not want to see this country devolve into a cycle of electing inexperienced famous faces.  Trump needs to be an anomaly not to be repeated, not the standard for the new norm of what it takes to get elected.  I have no problem with Oprah as a person, but answering Trump with Oprah?  Man, I really feel like that would be it for this country.  We will have totally jumped the shark at that point and I mean it sincerely when I say that I will not vote for her in 2020 and that I am as sure of that as I was sure that I would never vote for Trump.  To me that feels like perpetuating a death spiral.  She would need to spend at least some time in congress or as a state governor or something before I would even consider it.  Just because the Republicans have shown that they don't care about meaningful experience does not mean that the Dem's should follow them down that path.

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35 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I mean, the Democratic party isn't going to do much soul searching if they run Biden or Sanders/Warren and their far left agenda isn't going to help either. The party has issues that I don't see being resolved by the 2020 candidate.

The 2020 candidate probably gets a free pass. It's the 2024/2028 candidates I feel sorry for.

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2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What does everyone think about Oprah 2020?

Not happening.

 

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3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That is unclear.  If he does the shit hits the fan.  Further, he’d have to pardon everyone because he can be subpoenaed to appear in other cases.

Would it though outside of a lot of sound a fury? I never expected much from the House Republicans, but I did of the Senate Republicans. Lately they've been signalling, at least IMO, that they might hold Trump accountable if he does fire Mueller and/or pardons himself and those around him. 

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3 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

The only time I heard Erin or Don Jr speak, it was about their overt racism or anti-liberal bent so it was hard to judge.  The book claims that Ivanka is known as the "smart Trump" so that gives an idea of what people think of the boys.  Most interviews I've seen of Ivanka reveals she doesn't know how to engage beyond a few key talking points.  

I'm curious how the book will change things in the white house.  Will Trump kick out Jarvanka of his own accord after reading how stupid they've made him look?  (Assuming someone is giving him the cliff notes).  Does Nikki Haley continue to enjoy such close access now that he sees she might be gunning for his seat in 2020?  How many cabinet positions doesn't he fire after realizing they all think he's a fucking idiot?  Maybe nothing changes?  

I've always seen Don Jr. and Eric described as empty suits who only succeeded through nepotism. Ivanka is usually described in a better light, but it's all empty fluff. 

I doubt the book will cause large scale changes in the short term.Maybe a person or two will have to go because of it. The shake up will come after the 2018 elections, especially if Republicans get curb stomped. 

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17 minutes ago, S John said:

Agree.  Please no.  I really do not want to see this country devolve into a cycle of electing inexperienced famous faces.  Trump needs to be an anomaly not to be repeated, not the standard for the new norm of what it takes to get elected.  I have no problem with Oprah as a person, but answering Trump with Oprah?  Man, I really feel like that would be it for this country.  We will have totally jumped the shark at that point and I mean it sincerely when I say that I will not vote for her in 2020 and that I am as sure of that as I was sure that I would never vote for Trump.  To me that feels like perpetuating a death spiral.  She would need to spend at least some time in congress or as a state governor or something before I would even consider it.  Just because the Republicans have shown that they don't care about meaningful experience does not mean that the Dem's should follow them down that path.

 

Some segments of the Voters do have slight tendency to see glitz , glamour and charisma as being the most important qualifications for higher office. 

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