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Varysblackfyre321

Was Robert right about Dany?

31 posts in this topic

48 minutes ago, Seeeyeare said:

???

Ships aren't caravans. Their speed isn't influenced by their amount. And even if a scouting ship managed to spot them, how long do you think it would take for that message, even if by raven, to reach the capital? On a good day, medieval ships ought to sail at around 100 km/h, or around 62 m/h. A raven can fly around the 50 m/h range.

Lol what? 100km/h? Modern military ships can't reach that. Medieval ships would travel with max speed of 10 knots which is 18,5 km/h realistically they would travel with half of that so 9,25 km/h. Amount of ships influences speed of the fleet, you can travel with speed of the slowest ship other ways you leave it behind. There is many reasons for larger fleet to travel for a longer time than one ship. So raven's are much faster.

48 minutes ago, Seeeyeare said:

So, you are expecting the following chain of events to happen before the Dothraki attack:

1) A ship spots the attacking fleet

2) A raven is sent out in time

3) The King's Landing fleet is prepared in record time (crew, provisions, etc)

4) The fleet sails out to the attacking fleet

5) And proceeds to attack them

1.) There are several options.

Robert's fleet can be in Dorne with orders to attack Dothraki fleet on sight. They would definitely be able to scout sea from Dorne to Tyrosh since there is so many islands a big fleet could hardly pass unnoticed, once they would see them passing they could easily intercept the fleet.

Robert's fleet can be near Tyrosh and wait for Dothraki fleet to stop there for supplies since they would have to stop and get supplies before crossing the narrow sea.

2.) Raven has 10 times the speed of fleet.

3.) Fleet is already prepared they are waiting for them.

4.) Yes.

5.) Easy win.

48 minutes ago, Seeeyeare said:

Please note that I never insinuated that the Dothraki would be a threat against a Westerosi army, hence me referring to a 'punitive' force. The problem is that 40000 rapists and pillagers are now loose in whatever region they landed in... pillaging and raping. Causing disorder. Burning fields? Looting? Whatever. It's not good. It's bad. You don't want bad things to occur. 

Well yes they aren't the best visitors. But I didn't get that from your post.

Edited by Tygett Lannister

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37 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Lol what? 100km/h? Modern military ships can't reach that. Medieval ships would travel with max speed of 10 knots which is 18,5 km/h realistically they would travel with half of that so 9,25 km/h. Amount of ships influences speed of the fleet, you can travel with speed of the slowest ship other ways you leave it behind. There is many reasons for larger fleet to travel for a longer time than one ship. So raven's are much faster.

I meant per day! Ravens travel at ~50 m/h while ships travel at 100 m/d on a good day. My mistake. So sorry. Doesn't change the fact that the ships would have to sail out to meet them, though!

37 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

1.) There are several options.

Robert's fleet can be in Dorne with orders to attack Dothraki fleet on sight. They would definitely be able to scout sea from Dorne to Tyrosh since there is so many islands a big fleet could hardly pass unnoticed, once they would see them passing they could easily intercept the fleet.

Robert's fleet can be near Tyrosh and wait for Dothraki fleet to stop there for supplies since they would have to stop and get supplies before crossing the narrow sea.

This presupposes prior planning. 

37 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

2.) Raven has 10 times the speed of fleet.

Yes, but ships do not. 

37 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

3.) Fleet is already prepared they are waiting for them.

Why? They would have to know that the ships are approaching before they can make any plans. Recall how easily the Golden Company landed. They even managed to storm some castles before word got out. You're overestimating medieval communication. 

37 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

4.) Yes.

5.) Easy win.

No, silly! 4 and 5 are definitely possible, if 1, 2 and 3 occur at record time. That is the issue. 

37 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Well yes they aren't the best visitors. But I didn't get that from your post.

Really? Because I said:

Quote

You know, the ocean is quite big. They could land their hypothetical fleet anywhere along Westeros's sizable shoreline. And 40000 savages wreaking havoc until a reasonable punitive force of, say, 15000 reaches them is not exactly something you want.

 

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Was Robert right to attempt the assassination? Yes.

Forget that its a feudal society.In Robert's position I would have made the exact same play...Except I would have hired a FM.The job would have gotten done.

Robert always knew where Dany and Viserys were.His spies told him as much.He had years to kill them when it was much easier.He didn't make a move because they were not a threat.

The moment Viserys got Dany married off to a Dorthraki warlord ;she and by extension Viserys were a threat.

For what possible reason would Viserys have for giving his sister to a vicious barbarian warlord? Added to all this she was pregnant!

Robert was glim in some things,but when it came to fighting and matters of war he was spot on.

The "intent" of that marriage was to give Viserys and Dany the resources to invade the 7 Kingdoms.

Now we have problems.That horde would have laid waste to the small folk.Dany and her brother would be seen as doing nothing but bringing death to Westeros.Which they would have.

This is what Robert knew, and this is all he needed to know to make the choice to send hit out on her.

He botched it when he didn't use a FM.

Edited by wolfmaid7

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2 hours ago, Seeeyeare said:

Ravens travel at ~50 m/h while ships travel at 100 m/d on a good day.

You mean "mi" as in the olde imperial unit, the "mile", which nobody outside the US uses anymore? Or "m" as in "meter"? (the accepted abbreviation)

Edited by zandru

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1 hour ago, wolfmaid7 said:

Was Robert right to attempt the assassination? Yes.

Forget that its a feudal society.In Robert's position I would have made the exact same play...Except I would have hired a FM.The job would have gotten done.

Robert always knew where Dany and Viserys were.His spies told him as much.He had years to kill them when it was much easier.He didn't make a move because they were not a threat.

The moment Viserys got Dany married off to a Dorthraki warlord ;she and by extension Viserys were a threat.

For what possible reason would Viserys have for giving his sister to a vicious barbarian warlord? Added to all this she was pregnant!

Robert was glim in some things,but when it came to fighting and matters of war he was spot on.

The "intent" of that marriage was to give Viserys and Dany the resources to invade the 7 Kingdoms.

Now we have problems.That horde would have laid waste to the small folk.Dany and her brother would be seen as doing nothing but bringing death to Westeros.Which they would have.

This is what Robert knew, and this is all he needed to know to make the choice to send hit out on her.

He botched it when he didn't use a FM.

Notice how it was Littlefinger who argued the small council away from using an FM, and he also predicted that whomever they sent will make a hash out of it and put the Dothraki on their guard. :ph34r:

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6 hours ago, Seeeyeare said:

???

Ships aren't caravans. Their speed isn't influenced by their amount. And even if a scouting ship managed to spot them, how long do you think it would take for that message, even if by raven, to reach the capital? On a good day, medieval ships ought to sail at around 100 km/h, or around 62 m/h. A raven can fly around the 50 m/h range. 

So, you are expecting the following chain of events to happen before the Dothraki attack:

1) A ship spots the attacking fleet

2) A raven is sent out in time

3) The King's Landing fleet is prepared in record time (crew, provisions, etc)

4) The fleet sails out to the attacking fleet

5) And proceeds to attack them

You jest! 

. . .

You are kidding, aren't you? 

Please note that I never insinuated that the Dothraki would be a threat against a Westerosi army, hence me referring to a 'punitive' force. The problem is that 40000 rapists and pillagers are now loose in whatever region they landed in... pillaging and raping. Causing disorder. Burning fields? Looting? Whatever. It's not good. It's bad. You don't want bad things to occur. 

Yeah, it's pretty clear no one in Westeroes whose any say in this matter really thinks the Dothraki would have much chance to actually conquer Westeroes, but they'd still be a major nuisance. Like, no one thinks the wildlings will ever conquer the north but nonetheless treat an army gathering pretty seriously since a lot of people are going to be put at risk if they do attack in the time it'd take to make an army to rebuff them.

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I'm a little surprised so many people are saying yes to the original question. I was a little hesitant to make this thread because I thought there'd be much bigger blowback and/or ccusations of such a question was simply an attempt at trolling.

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3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I'm a little surprised so many people are saying yes to the original question.

Same here. I'm guessing many have internalized the mores of Westeros better than us.

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16 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Notice how it was Littlefinger who argued the small council away from using an FM, and he also predicted that whomever they sent will make a hash out of it and put the Dothraki on their guard. :ph34r:

Word, and boy did they botch it.Again,it's a case of what was known and what that knowledge might mean.

The information Robert had, denoted impending doom.Maybe not so much for the High Lord's in their Castle.

At least,not for a time.But the people who are going to be gravely impacted are those who grow your food etc.

We would be talking about leaving them open to much more than Dorthraki.

 I would be thinking all kinds of scenarios.

Around that time  Robert also heard info from Ned concerning Mance and more Wildling activity right?

This would be my concern.A group thought to be just as barbaric taking advantage of the chaos or joining a team that share certain characteristics as they.

I would nip that with a FM.I don't know what LF could have said to desuade them from using a FM,other than they would cost a lot of money.I can't remember if he told Ned how he took that off the table.

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18 hours ago, zandru said:

You mean "mi" as in the olde imperial unit, the "mile", which nobody outside the US uses anymore? Or "m" as in "meter"? (the accepted abbreviation)

I meant mile. You are correct in that I used the incorrect abbreviation. I used mile out of simplicity, as I didn't feel like converting it to kms. 

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Robert did not really fear that the Dothraki are going to come to Westeros and actually win, he was worried about the Targaryen loyalists joining the Targaryen "WHORE" and her army of savages. Robert was smarter than people think, he was not meant to be a King but a warrior. He understood the battlefield better than the politics of KL and how to run a Kingdom. He was one of the best military commanders in Westeros and he knew that Houses still loyal to Targaryen name would betray him if Daenerys invades with an army of Dothraki. 

Houses that would side with the "WHORE": 
- House Martell. They want revenge for what happened to Princess Elia and considering that Tywin would side with the Crown, they would definitely join Daenerys.
- House Tarly. In my opinion it is possible that they would support a Targaryen in this scenario, not too sure about that though.
- House Hightower ( unless they are involved with the whole Citadel conspiracy AKA "Fuck da Dragons!" )

 Still without fully grown Dragons, the WHORE and her Dothraki rapists get slaughtered by the combined forces of Westeros, not even the secret "Targaryen Loyalists" can change the outcome of this war. 
 

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