Bakker LIII - Sranc and File

[kuenjato]

Bakker never addresses the biblical quandary - souls don't have nerves, so how can they experience pain?

 

I thought on this one hard enough that I eventually included it in the fantasy serial I'm working on. I guess RSB is still influencing.

[Rhom]

9 hours ago, kuenjato said:

Bakker never addresses the biblical quandary - souls don't have nerves, so how can they experience pain?

 

I thought on this one hard enough that I eventually included it in the fantasy serial I'm working on. I guess RSB is still influencing.

From a strictly medical standpoint, you don’t “need” nerves to experience the perception of pain.  Amputees often relate tales of phantom pain in their missing limb.

[Callan S.]

22 hours ago, kuenjato said:

Bakker never addresses the biblical quandary - souls don't have nerves, so how can they experience pain?

There cannot be meaning without nerves?

[kuenjato]

13 hours ago, Rhom said:

From a strictly medical standpoint, you don’t “need” nerves to experience the perception of pain.  Amputees often relate tales of phantom pain in their missing limb.

Isn't this the brain creating stimuli? I know, as I have some nerve pain from stress, lessened but not entirely gone. Do souls correspond to the brain / are 'programmed' by the brain? It seems in Bakkerverse, as experience and "great deeds" are savored by the parasite gods: souls, then, collect detritus (sin, impact on others, etc.).

I mean, I'm agnostic, so the soul is an ambiguous concept anyway, but it's always been a question, as religious people take the "I" as the soul, rather than it being merely the neurological pulses of the brain / ego / etc. "I" will burn in hell, "I" will float on clouds, so forth--the soul being an intangible expression of the self concept. 

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

Ok, I think I figured it out. The metatextual nature of the series, the six installments broken up into seven, the crash space of meaning, everything going black. I've definitely got it.

R. Scott Bakker doesn't actually exist. It's a pen name for David Chase, and the entire series has been the secret seventh season of The Sopranos. I know, sounds crazy, right? Well, that's only R. Scott Chase's genius-level, eighth dimension chess moves meant to weed out the unenlightened. If you read/watch closely, the evidence is all there.

You see the No-God, AKA "Mog Pharuu," AKA "M.O.G." AKA "Members Only Guy" was the man in the Members Only Jacket from the final episode. The entire Second Apocalypse takes place in the split second before the screen goes black, ala An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. It was all one of Tony's lucid dreams, albeit a very complex and intricate one. It was the "Second" Apocalypse, as the first came when he was shot by Junior at the beginning of season 6 and almost died. The disturbing sexual violence and troubling depictions of women are the result of the entire world being built in a split second within the psyche of a sociopath with some serious mommy issues.

Still not convinced? Well, think about this...

Look at a full-body picture of Steve Buscemi, and tell me what it is he most resembles. A head on a pole, right? Well, that's because the head on the pole was first portrayed by Buscemi. You see, the HOP in the Outside was in fact Tony Blundetto, waiting outside the House of the Damned that we see Tony S. "building" for himself throughout his dreams in seasons 4-6.

The Heron Spear? Well, as we know, waterfowl is symbolic of Tony's feelings toward his family throughout the series. And the opening of the final season describes Meadow as "Khu" the third part of the soul that leaves the body after death, and as his guardian angel. Meadow would have been sitting next to Tony in the final scene, blocking MOG's approach, had it not been for her delay in parking. Meadow is the Heron Spear, the weapon that could have stopped the No-God, had it been present.

I could go on, but why rob you of the journey. Reread, rewatch, and see for yourself. It's all there. Hint, Melfi is totally Mimara.

TLDR:

Kelmomas whacked Tony Soprano.

Spoiler

Happy Aprile Fool's 

 

[Werthead]

Updated A History of Earwa with stuff from Unholy Consult. Starts on p.102. Anything I missed there?

[Werthead]

48 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Awesome stuff.  Nice work.  There were a few images in there I'd not seen yet too.

Did Kellhus really tell Proyus that delay was the only goals of the Ordeal and that the Consult must eventually win?  I didn't remember that.

Yeah, very early on. Proyas is in his tent and I think flashes back to the last discussion he had with Kellhus. It's been discussed here, I remember, and the theory that if that's true (in which case we might get another 2-3 books from Bakker which just end with the No-God triumphant) or if that sequence of events - the Topos, Kelmomas, the White Luck having just been deployed, Ajokli being in play etc - might have resulted in some sort of obfuscation of the future and in fact it was possible to change that future and destroy the No-God and the Consult forever, which Kellhus certainly seemed to believe (otherwise why not just give up immediately?).

[Hello World]

1 hour ago, Triskele said:

Awesome stuff.  Nice work.  There were a few images in there I'd not seen yet too.

Yeah, I didn't realize that guy was still making fanart. The throne of Sil was cool even though I didn't realize any such thing was described in the books.

[Kalbear]

Yeah, I didn't get the 'delay' thing at all. My recollection is that at some point the Consult must win - but his viewpoint is that under the lack of view of the Gods there, where the gods could not reach them, any outcome was possible.

Of course this was just Kellhus saying what he wanted to hear. 

On this part:

Quote

But he knew now that Kellhus was right, that the threat of the Consult was real and must be faced and destroyed.

At this point he didn't care, because he viewed Kellhus as the ultimate horror, returning to camp and seeing the atrocities that they had done. That turned him entirely to the White Luck, without a single doubt in his brain. 

And this was funny:
 

Quote

Achamian, Esmenet and Mimara, now deep in the throes of childbirth,

A triple childbirth at the same time WOULD be hard.

You also didn't mention the appearance of Shae. 
And the reason that Kellhus was shocked to see Kelmomas there was that Ajokli-as-Kellhus could not actually see him at all. He was utterly blind to Kelmomas, being the No-God. 

And Cnaiur didn't just give himself to the whirlwind - he gave himself to Ajokli, who could not find Kellhus in hell. 

[jurble]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

(otherwise why not just give up immediately?).

Because he was possessed by Ajokli and wasn't thinking logically :o.   Because otherwise, yeah it doesn't make any sense does it? 

Or maybe he's taking some sort of existentialist viewpoint here or whatever, he knows the Consult is going to win and it's all meaningless and the rational thing would be to join the Consult.  But existentialism is all about how logic and rationality are lame and dumb and inevitably lead to nihilism, right?  So, Kellhus is doing the whole do not go gently into the night routine.  Since Bakker's a philosophy nerd, I wouldn't discount it.

 

Also Wert, I feel like I'm reading part of one of those old Forgotten Realm campaign setting books.  Where's the rest of the maps and monsters and stats :O.

 

[Werthead]

Updated it again (via the same link) to clear up those points.

And that's it until the next book comes out, whenever the hell that is.

[Kalbear]

Honestly, reading this is better than reading the book for me. It's like the good parts version of the Princess Bride. 

[oberonus]

Wert,

 

your summary is a more enjoyable read and more informative than the 7 book series itself

 

at least it was for me

 

 

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

Ditto.

[Spring Bass]

What's the consensus on what happened to Kellhus' soul? Did he somehow find oblivion, or sneakily figure out another way to trap his soul in the World like Shae? 

[Callan S.]

Dead but not done.

Presumably he's a factor in play, much as Cnaiur, whose arc was done but he was not dead, was.

Maybe he's stuck in a skull, making its jaw clatter in a 'butterfly in a diving bell' way in a desperate bid to influence the world still.

[Spring Bass]

I could totally see Kellhus somehow figuring out how to trap his soul in a magic box despite the complications mentioned with trapping souls that Akka brought up, then communicating solely through sorcery.

[jurble]

11 hours ago, Fall Bass said:

What's the consensus on what happened to Kellhus' soul? Did he somehow find oblivion, or sneakily figure out another way to trap his soul in the World like Shae? 

Are you aware of the term Baby Kellhus?

[Rhom]

I go either Baby Kellhus or trapped in the other Decapitant.

[Spring Bass]

13 hours ago, Ajûrbkli said:

Are you aware of the term Baby Kellhus?

Seems possible.