Lucius Lovejoy

Jaime's S8 meetings

31 posts in this topic

After the mess that was S7, I am not so hopeful for S8, but no matter what happens I will enjoy Jaime interacting more intimately with a few particular characters.  Even though D&D have done their best to ruin him NCW is God blessed gold on camera and brings that goldenhand charm in every situation.  While he technically saw a bunch of folks in the awful dragon pit scene, he hasn't gotten the chance to really confront Jon, Danerys, or the Hound, let alone Bran and the crew in Winterfell.  Plus there's the will he or won't he with Brienne.  What do you guys think will happen?  How will Jaime's interactions with the following characters go down?  Keep in mind this is all SHOW ONLY, I think most of this will not happen in the books.

I see at least one scene where Brienne comes forward and tells the northerners or Danerys about "burn them all" when they are harshly questioning Jaime (think Sansa in the great hall angrily admonishing him about how "you tried to kill my brother" while Jaime kneels on the floor and Brienne starts to talk, Jaime trys to stop her, but she tells it all forcefully anyway and people accept him)... Jaime tries to apologize to Bran directly but Bran is all aloof and "I'm the 3ER now" and says something weird about how Jaime had to do it and it wasn't his fault and NCW gives a great subtle WTF facial expression... Jaime and Brienne don't do it - Jaime cannot bring himself to do so while Cersei is alive (but if they actually do it then Tormund will get a useless scene where he gives Jaime kudos and threatens him if he hurts Brienne)... Jon makes at least one comment about how they need every man in the fight against the NK in reference to how they should forgive Jaime for Cersei's backstabbing and trust him...

Just spitballing here.  What do you all think?  How will Jaime be received and how will he react?

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My wishful thinking is that Bran won't be uncaring that Jaime is there. Better that he freaks him out or still holds some grudge. I know it won't happen but Bran being aloof to Jaime and not caring that the man ruined his life and destroyed all his dreams because he's the 3ER, yo! Nonetheless, it is so painfully predictable that I'm hoping to be surprised.... invain. <_<

Edited by Faera

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@Faera I'd enjoy that if only because it would surprise me.  In the books during one of Bran's first flying/falling dreams in AGOT he hears the words "the things I do for love" and sees a "golden face" above but then the crow tells him something to the effect of "let it go" or "that doesn't matter now" (sorry, I would provide the quote but I am on my mobile phone now) which I've taken to mean that Bran will either selectively never remember that it was Jaime or he will think it was some predetermination nonsense and thus Jaime wasn't really at fault.  Since the Blackfish died in the show and there is no LSH I think everyone who knew what Jaime did to Bran is dead besides Cersei, so its possible it only comes up if Jaime approaches Bran.

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2 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

@Faera I'd enjoy that if only because it would surprise me.  In the books during one of Bran's first flying/falling dreams in AGOT he hears the words "the things I do for love" and sees a "golden face" above but then the crow tells him something to the effect of "let it go" or "that doesn't matter now" (sorry, I would provide the quote but I am on my mobile phone now) which I've taken to mean that Bran will either selectively never remember that it was Jaime or he will think it was some predetermination nonsense and thus Jaime wasn't really at fault.  Since the Blackfish died in the show and there is no LSH I think everyone who knew what Jaime did to Bran is dead besides Cersei, so its possible it only comes up if Jaime approaches Bran.

2

I know, right? It is Bran's PTSD in the books being linked so much to the "golden man" (i.e. Jaime) that I want him to actually have a proper reaction to Jaime. LIke, to be freaked out or distrustful or purposely meanspirited to him... as much as his woodeness will allow him.

But I know he won't... "because show".

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Jaime and Bran are the 2 chars I most want to meet. Bran to say: It's OK. You did what you had to. BTW, I would not be what I am without you. I would be dead by Ramsey.

4 hours ago, Faera said:

the man ruined his life and destroyed all his dreams because he's the 3ER

Bran wanted to be a knight and Jaime ruined that. But Bran knows becoming the 3ER was necessary. He can't really put the blame on Jaime.

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5 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Jaime and Bran are the 2 chars I most want to meet. Bran to say: It's OK. You did what you had to. BTW, I would not be what I am without you. I would be dead by Ramsey.

Bran wanted to be a knight and Jaime ruined that. But Bran knows becoming the 3ER was necessary. He can't really put the blame on Jaime.

Personally, I feel this whole "3ER" thing has ruined what might have been a more interesting reunion if Jaime actually had to do something for real to make amends for his previous actions rather than it inevitably being handed to him on the plate. Knowing that Bran isn't going to care at all and reaction with the same woodness he treats everything now just sucks all the air out of it for me.

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48 minutes ago, Faera said:

Personally, I feel this whole "3ER" thing has ruined what might have been a more interesting reunion if Jaime actually had to do something for real to make amends for his previous actions rather than it inevitably being handed to him on the plate. Knowing that Bran isn't going to care at all and reaction with the same woodness he treats everything now just sucks all the air out of it for me.

In fact I like that. His cold minded decisions. Looking only at the bottom line. It changes from most everyone else "hot tempers" and what I admire myself.

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On 13/01/2018 at 6:09 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

In fact I like that. His cold minded decisions. Looking only at the bottom line. It changes from most everyone else "hot tempers" and what I admire myself.

I meant specifically in terms of his reunion with Jaime. Bran's behaviour is so predictable now that it sucks all the life out of what could have been an interesting conflict had Bran still been himself, or more specifically like book!Bran, who suffers from genuine PTSD as a result of what happened to him and Jaime represented an image of fear for him.

Having said that, I do think that "Professor X" Bran (as I have seen him called) was not as well realised as it could have been. It is sad because three of the best scenes in the whole season belonged to him: his scene with Meera, the bit with his sisters when he produces the dagger and the warging of the ravens to spy on the NK. Yet the rest of the time he was ignored for plot convenience, as if he was some sort of computer you have to boot-up and type in his search box. It felt like it was a mistake to have him in Winterfell for that reason. While the concept of him being out of it and above it all is interesting, it was overall poorly utilised. 

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I don't think an omniscient character with "access to everything that happened" belongs in this universe - even if it's an old sage in a cave, but esp. if it's a main character.

There should be serious limitations in one form or other . or even better, several.

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Jaime's arrival at Winterfell should be fun if the door is still guarded by the two genius who had trouble with Arya.

— I'm Jaime Lannister and I must talk with…

— Fuck off, blondie!

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Given Bran was pretty much distant and aloof to Littlefinger's actions, which pretty much put his whole family on a path to destruction, I'm not thinking it's very likely we're going to get any great reactions to Jaime. Probably just some remark about it being destiny and how he'd never have become the three eyed raven if it hadn't happened.

Honestly, I'm more interested to see how Daenerys will confront the man who killed her father.

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On 13/01/2018 at 5:07 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

Bran wanted to be a knight and Jaime ruined that. But Bran knows becoming the 3ER was necessary. He can't really put the blame on Jaime.

See, this is exactly the kind of shit that D&D bank on. People who see fantasy as just a collection of tropes being executed in tandem, rather than an opportunity for a bunch of characters that, God forbid, act like people or hold realistic grudges and human emotions.

Of course the mad oracle doesn't have feelings any more, it's good character writing to reduce a three-dimensional child who lost everything to a wheelchair-riding exposition machine who will just say 'nothing matters 'cause fate' to everything, even the man who, in complete short-sightedness, pushed him out of a goddamn window with intent to kill.

Real people, even the best of people, don't let shit like that go. Children who have yet to develop proper coping mechanisms? Even more so. Hate to be a book wanker, but while Bran is somewhat wise for his age in the books and listens to Lewyn, he also has piques of childishness; I hate this, why does x have to be so useless, your visions are stupid, Jojen, etc, etc. But hey, D&D thinks characterisation is for eight-grade book reports, so I guess that's okay.

And people like you will eat it up, so I guess there's no point complaining. D&D have already made their money back with 'I drink and I know things' mugs.

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On 1/25/2018 at 3:19 AM, Beardy the Wildling said:

See, this is exactly the kind of shit that D&D bank on. People who see fantasy as just a collection of tropes being executed in tandem, rather than an opportunity for a bunch of characters that, God forbid, act like people or hold realistic grudges and human emotions.

Of course the mad oracle doesn't have feelings any more, it's good character writing to reduce a three-dimensional child who lost everything to a wheelchair-riding exposition machine who will just say 'nothing matters 'cause fate' to everything, even the man who, in complete short-sightedness, pushed him out of a goddamn window with intent to kill.

Real people, even the best of people, don't let shit like that go. Children who have yet to develop proper coping mechanisms? Even more so. Hate to be a book wanker, but while Bran is somewhat wise for his age in the books and listens to Lewyn, he also has piques of childishness; I hate this, why does x have to be so useless, your visions are stupid, Jojen, etc, etc. But hey, D&D thinks characterisation is for eight-grade book reports, so I guess that's okay.

And people like you will eat it up, so I guess there's no point complaining. D&D have already made their money back with 'I drink and I know things' mugs.

Lol that last line was agressive, shots fired!  I agree with your assessment and anger towards D&D - most of us do - I think we've all just accepted it.  I would much prefer a heated exhange between Jaime and team Stark.

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On 25.1.2018 at 10:19 AM, Beardy the Wildling said:

See, this is exactly the kind of shit that D&D bank on. People who see fantasy as just a collection of tropes being executed in tandem, rather than an opportunity for a bunch of characters that, God forbid, act like people or hold realistic grudges and human emotions.

Some movies are a "collection of tropes" / primarily based around aesthetical structure / have characters that act like representations of philosophical ideals rather than real people - others aim at realism.

This applies to "fantasy" as well as other genres/settings btw - it's not an either or question, it's just different ways of storytelling with different intentions behind it.


GoT obviously was supposed to be the realistic sort - however, should it turn into / complete its transformation into a "Hollywood epic" where the plot is guided by emotions, ideals and narrative structure etc. rather than in-universe motivations and actions-consequences, and it does a great job at that - then of course viewers are still gonna be on board to some extent and D&D wouldn't be dumb to "bank on that".

However all we'd be seeiong would be the gradual transformation from one genre into another.

On 25.1.2018 at 10:19 AM, Beardy the Wildling said:

Of course the mad oracle doesn't have feelings any more, it's good character writing to reduce a three-dimensional child who lost everything to a wheelchair-riding exposition machine who will just say 'nothing matters 'cause fate' to everything, even the man who, in complete short-sightedness, pushed him out of a goddamn window with intent to kill.

Real people,

You shouldn't be comparing S7 Bran to "real people".

In real life, no psychic powers have ever been confirmed anywhere, and a mega-psychic old sage who can teach you to gain access to every event that's ever happened sounds like a preposterous idea even compared to that.

(And, as I've already said a couple comments above, I think the 3ER is way overpowered for a story that attempts to be grounded and realistic - there's no way any human, certainly anyone without an exceptional intellect, can really imagine a realistic scenario of what that would be like and what consequences such an access to information would have.

And, guess what, so far Bran is acting and written precisely the way he would be written in "soft fantasy"; the only difference is that he arrived at that point after spending multiple seasons in a grounded realistic world, while soft fantasy typically overwhelms you with confirmed all-knowing demigod characters from the start.)

On 25.1.2018 at 10:19 AM, Beardy the Wildling said:

even the best of people, don't let shit like that go. Children who have yet to develop proper coping mechanisms? Even more so. Hate to be a book wanker, but while Bran is somewhat wise for his age in the books and listens to Lewyn, he also has piques of childishness; I hate this, why does x have to be so useless, your visions are stupid, Jojen, etc, etc. But hey, D&D thinks characterisation is for eight-grade book reports, so I guess that's okay.

And now you're ignoring that Bran was acting like an impulsive hothead in S6 - he's only been like this since S7.

On 25.1.2018 at 10:19 AM, Beardy the Wildling said:

And people like you will eat it up, so I guess there's no point complaining. D&D have already made their money back with 'I drink and I know things' mugs.

Tbf it's a pretty cool quote; no government regulation was required to sell those mugs.

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I'm waiting for two kinfuckers to talk again with each other.

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On 1/15/2018 at 11:49 AM, Faera said:

I meant specifically in terms of his reunion with Jaime. Bran's behaviour is so predictable now that it sucks all the life out of what could have been an interesting conflict had Bran still been himself, or more specifically like book!Bran, who suffers from genuine PTSD as a result of what happened to him and Jaime represented an image of fear for him.

Having said that, I do think that "Professor X" Bran (as I have seen him called) was not as well realised as it could have been. It is sad because three of the best scenes in the whole season belonged to him: his scene with Meera, the bit with his sisters when he produces the dagger and the warging of the ravens to spy on the NK. Yet the rest of the time he was ignored for plot convenience, as if he was some sort of computer you have to boot-up and type in his search box. It felt like it was a mistake to have him in Winterfell for that reason. While the concept of him being out of it and above it all is interesting, it was overall poorly utilised. 

I had a moment of laugh and cries reading this. So true, so sad.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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On 1/13/2018 at 4:27 AM, Lucius Lovejoy said:

After the mess that was S7, I am not so hopeful for S8, but no matter what happens I will enjoy Jaime interacting more intimately with a few particular characters.  Even though D&D have done their best to ruin him NCW is God blessed gold on camera and brings that goldenhand charm in every situation.  While he technically saw a bunch of folks in the awful dragon pit scene, he hasn't gotten the chance to really confront Jon, Danerys, or the Hound, let alone Bran and the crew in Winterfell.  Plus there's the will he or won't he with Brienne.  What do you guys think will happen?  How will Jaime's interactions with the following characters go down?  Keep in mind this is all SHOW ONLY, I think most of this will not happen in the books.

I see at least one scene where Brienne comes forward and tells the northerners or Danerys about "burn them all" when they are harshly questioning Jaime (think Sansa in the great hall angrily admonishing him about how "you tried to kill my brother" while Jaime kneels on the floor and Brienne starts to talk, Jaime trys to stop her, but she tells it all forcefully anyway and people accept him)... Jaime tries to apologize to Bran directly but Bran is all aloof and "I'm the 3ER now" and says something weird about how Jaime had to do it and it wasn't his fault and NCW gives a great subtle WTF facial expression... Jaime and Brienne don't do it - Jaime cannot bring himself to do so while Cersei is alive (but if they actually do it then Tormund will get a useless scene where he gives Jaime kudos and threatens him if he hurts Brienne)... Jon makes at least one comment about how they need every man in the fight against the NK in reference to how they should forgive Jaime for Cersei's backstabbing and trust him...

Just spitballing here.  What do you all think?  How will Jaime be received and how will he react?

They will get along with him after hesitating a little. The only certain thing is that there will be something between him and Brienne.

There was a deleted scene in s7 in which Bronn mentioned to Tyrion that Jonerys would sleep together, and it's exactly the same thing he said about Jaime and Brienne in s6.

Bronn looks over his shoulder at Jon Snow. "Handsome brooder. Dragon Queen fucking him yet? No? Bet she will be soon. He's what they go for. Him and your brother. Not us. We're never the one they go for. We're the other one."

http://www.desinerd.co.in/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-7-leak-scripts/

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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On 1/15/2018 at 9:26 PM, Lord Lannister said:

Given Bran was pretty much distant and aloof to Littlefinger's actions, which pretty much put his whole family on a path to destruction, I'm not thinking it's very likely we're going to get any great reactions to Jaime. Probably just some remark about it being destiny and how he'd never have become the three eyed raven if it hadn't happened.

Honestly, I'm more interested to see how Daenerys will confront the man who killed her father.

I see both these interactions happening simultaneously in the show once he presumably reaches WF to meet the northern forces. I don't think the show can let go either, Bran seems devoid of most emotions and Dany knows her father wasn't stable, so I don't see too much conflict in either scenarios. Although I would like to see Jaime express some regret for what he did to Bran.

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On 1/31/2018 at 7:39 PM, Meera of Tarth said:

They will get along with him after hesitating a little. The only certain thing is that there will be something between him and Brienne.

There was a deleted scene in s7 in which Bronn mentioned to Tyrion that Jonerys would sleep together, and it's exactly the same thing he said about Jaime and Brienne in s6.

Bronn looks over his shoulder at Jon Snow. "Handsome brooder. Dragon Queen fucking him yet? No? Bet she will be soon. He's what they go for. Him and your brother. Not us. We're never the one they go for. We're the other one."

http://www.desinerd.co.in/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-7-leak-scripts/

Interesting. Bronn seems to have a knack to spot inchoate romances.

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38 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Interesting. Bronn seems to have a knack to spot inchoate romances.

Indeed. And I think that the reason why they deleted the scene was because the foreshadowing would have been very obvious, not only for Jonerys (which already had a lot of "foreshadowing" from different characters) but also in regards to Jaime and Brienne. People remember the scene of the tent because it's basically the only time they spoke to each other in s6.

This is Gwen's reaction when asked about Jaime and Brienne

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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