U.S. Politics: And a Happy "Shithole" Year

[Fez]

26 minutes ago, Ormond said:

As I understand it "cognitive screening" usually means a test for the presence of actual dementia. It is not at all the same thing as an IQ test. People who have dementia are often going to "repeat stories" because they don't remember they just told them to you -- but there are other reasons to repeat yourself a lot other than having a poor memory. I have known people who repeat stories as a means to dominate the conversation -- and with an extreme narcissist like Trump, he may repeat stories that he thinks reflect well on himself just out of self-aggrandizement. 

Apparently it was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment, seen here: http://dementia.ie/images/uploads/site-images/MoCA-Test-English_7_1.pdf

I have not had any significant close contact with someone with dementia or alzheimer's (a great-aunt of mine has early on-set, and is still almost completely functional), so I don't know how far you have to progress before you can't pass this test. But to my uninformed eyes, it sure looks like a test that only people with serious progression of dementia would not pass 30/30.

ETA: So Trump could have an early case and not have that test pick it up. 

As for the other big possible health issue, the doctor says that Trump's slurred words last month were due to dehydration only; likely caused by sudafed.

[OldGimletEye]

23 hours ago, Nasty LongRider said:

What is it about being a GOP elected official that makes these people so damn cruel?  What is it?

I think there might be a bit of an endogenity issue here, as in did being a jerk make one become a GOP politician, or does being a GOP politician make one a jerk?

[Week]

https://www.mediaite.com/online/friend-of-stormy-daniels-she-told-me-trump-chased-her-around-bedroom-in-his-tighty-whities/

Quote

Tuesday on Megyn Kelly Today, Alana Evans — a friend of Daniels — described a phone call she received from the porn star the day after her alleged hookup with the president.

“The visual I get has stuck with me for this entire time,” Evans said.

She added, “But having her tell me the next day when I asked how did it go and she says, ‘Well, picture this. Donald Trump chasing me around the bedroom in his tighty whities’ isn’t something that you ever forget.”

I'm so sick of this -- we already went through this after Obama was (allegedly) chasing around pornstars in his tighty wighties too. I mean ... AGAIN, REALLY?

/Sarcasm

[GAROVORKIN]

8 hours ago, Week said:

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink. If you cannot be bothered to read a short article that provides a hint of context of the long history of racism, exploitation, and violence towards Haiti from the western powers (particularly the US and France).then there is no point in trying to actually reason, educate, or listen to you at all. 

@Pony Queen Jace
Bravo to you for the attempt. Unfortunately, whether it is an inability, disinterest, or simply trolling -- somehow GAOVORKIN finds it necessary to sea-lion every few days and it is fucking maddening to just let the asinine one-liners go. 

Simply put, there is no there there. As many others have previously pointed out -- engagement is a waste of time and effort. 

 

Sea - lion? Interesting expression.  On another site I hang around on they us word Godwin.

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Sea - lion? Interesting expression.  On another site I hang around on they us word Godwin.

This is the reference.

[LongRider]

2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I think there might be a bit of an endogenity issue here, as in did being a jerk make one become a GOP politician, or does being a GOP politician make one a jerk?

Not all GOP guv's are this cruel, but this guy is a nasty MF'r.

[Week]

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

This is the reference.

Reposted for the 5th time in about two days (between you and NLR). Maybe someone will learn. 

[Ormond]

12 minutes ago, Fez said:

Apparently it was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment, seen here: http://dementia.ie/images/uploads/site-images/MoCA-Test-English_7_1.pdf

I have not had any significant close contact with someone with dementia or alzheimer's (a great-aunt of mine has early on-set, and is still almost completely functional), so I don't know how far you have to progress before you can't pass this test. But to my uninformed eyes, it sure looks like a test that only people with serious progression of dementia would not pass 30/30.

ETA: So Trump could have an early case and not have that test pick it up. 

As for the other big possible health issue, the doctor says that Trump's slurred words last month were due to dehydration only; likely caused by sudafed.

This test was designed to measure "Mild Cognitive Impairment", the precursor to dementia. The cut off for diagnosis of MCI is actually 26. 

[LongRider]

1 minute ago, Week said:

Reposted for the 5th time in about two days (between you and NLR). Maybe someone will learn. 

Goodwin's Law is completely different.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law   Trolls these days, so pitiful. It wasn't me who posted the comic this time, I did that about four weeks ago.  Seems like yesterday tho.

 

 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Fez said:

Apparently it was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment, seen here: http://dementia.ie/images/uploads/site-images/MoCA-Test-English_7_1.pdf

I have not had any significant close contact with someone with dementia or alzheimer's (a great-aunt of mine has early on-set, and is still almost completely functional), so I don't know how far you have to progress before you can't pass this test. But to my uninformed eyes, it sure looks like a test that only people with serious progression of dementia would not pass 30/30.

ETA: So Trump could have an early case and not have that test pick it up. 

As for the other big possible health issue, the doctor says that Trump's slurred words last month were due to dehydration only; likely caused by sudafed.

This may just be for the sake of argument, but U.S. Presidents have a well-documented history of hiding their health issues, even as recently as Reagan's last few years in office. 

This isn't exactly surprising, given that the President's health is itself a national security issue.

[Week]

24 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Goodwin's Law is completely different.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law   Trolls these days, so pitiful. It wasn't me who posted the comic this time, I did that about four weeks ago.  Seems like yesterday tho.

It was 4 weeks ago? In Trump-time (aka every day is about a year off of my life) or normal time?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I know, and I'm sorry if I'm coming across as degrading or insulting in any way.

But I've seen people start to give in to the frustration and that's not the way. I'm not a writer, I don't pretend to be, so I apologize if what I'm trying to say isn't coming out right.

What I took issue with specifically from your post was that it sounded like you were ready to dismiss a particular poster for good. 

Now to clarify, I got that impression because it's exactly what I was pleading with Week not to do and I felt that your post was a bit ambiguous and thereby sounded to me like it could be interpreted as "yeah, there's no use" in the context of the thread (especially by insincere actors) as opposed to "sometimes the time isn't right and you need to just stop and maybe revisit later with a new plan"

Obviously the latter is my position and I think the one you more or less share.

ETA: When I say "the time isn't right" I mean for the specific troublesome person you're speaking to at a given time, I'm not saying it's not time to combat racism.

You'd think I wouldn't need to say that, but there's a reason were having the discussion. 

Jace, you're fine, don't sweat it at all. And you're writing is really good, so don't doubt it (just don't make me a gelding again in one of your rants/stories! ). 

To be clear, I'm closer to your opinion on this, but with a caveat. The point of me referencing MLK's strategy was to highlight that there are certain avenues you should take when trying to convince people to change their minds on various issues and I think it applies here. I was not advocating for writing him off for good, just for now. You can always revisit your attempts at persuasion, and if you want to change your strategy, so be it. But this requires two people who are willing to have an intellectually honest conversation, and that simply wasn't happening. You have to wait until the person you're trying to pursued is willing to do so, and absent that, you're just wasting your time. But that doesn't mean you can't try. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Ormond said:

As I understand it "cognitive screening" usually means a test for the presence of actual dementia. It is not at all the same thing as an IQ test. People who have dementia are often going to "repeat stories" because they don't remember they just told them to you -- but there are other reasons to repeat yourself a lot other than having a poor memory. I have known people who repeat stories as a means to dominate the conversation -- and with an extreme narcissist like Trump, he may repeat stories that he thinks reflect well on himself just out of self-aggrandizement. 

I'm curious, absent early onset dementia, general cognitive decline and/or a physical head injury, what other biological and/or physical events would cause your speech patterns to change and/or decline? I ask because I've seen interviews with Trump from the 80's and 90's, and while he does repeat himself now and then, it's nothing like it is today. And more importantly, he was able to have a long conversation and not pinball all over the place. He was making clear thoughts and statements and he was finishing them before moving on to the next thing he wanted discuss. Today, he jackknifes all over the place, leaving thoughts incomplete and transitioning to totally unrelated subjects that makes his comments sound like a word salad. Reading the transcripts of his comments can frankly be difficult, especially when you're trying to parse out a coherent thought.  

[LongRider]

9 minutes ago, Week said:

It was 4 weeks ago? In Trump-time (aka every day is about a year off of my life) or normal time?

It's been posted a couple of times since.  Trump time, ugh, the nightmare that just doesn't stop. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, Week said:

It was 4 weeks ago? In Trump-time (aka every day is about a year off of my life) or normal time?

Can you believe the National Championship game was only 8 days ago? Feels like it's been a month. 

[aceluby]

22 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

This may just be for the sake of argument, but U.S. Presidents have a well-documented history of hiding their health issues, even as recently as Reagan's last few years in office. 

This isn't exactly surprising, given that the President's health is itself a national security issue.

Yeah, I mean, how is the President 'in perfect health' at all newsworthy?  They literally say that for all Presidents at all times except for the most extreme circumstances.  Even if he had early onset dementia, the public would hear the same news.

I mean there is exactly zero percent chance he weighs under 240.  I've weighed 250 before and not carried around that much weight.  If I'd wager a guess I'd say he's more in the 275 range.  6'3" and 239 lbs?  Give me a break.  And if they're gonna lie about something as easily false as that, do you really think they'd tell the truth about his mental stability?

 

[DMC]

8 hours ago, Zorral said:

Once again, people on this forum, who pride themselves on knowing so much more than the average USians,  defaulted to viewing the entire world through the USian lens, which is a truly flawed vision.  This vision that the US matters most to everyone and everything is mattering less and less and less EVERYWHERE, including Cuba.

Ha, no.  First of all, there is no default "USian lens" on Castro.  It's one of the very few topics left that is not rigidly aligned through partisanship.  There are many business interests throughout the country that want an open Cuba, and subsequently take a more generous view on Castro.  Granted, the GOP scooped up the most rabid anti-Castro vote - but those weren't coming from an ethnocentric "US lens" but rather political (and otherwise) refugees from Cuba in South Florida.  This unique constituency is dying off though.  I've befriended and taught their children and grandchildren, and to a person they really don't give a shit about Castro, nor the near 60-year embargo.

Second of all, you're assuming a "USian lens" based on criticism of Trudeau's comments (in turn, I'm assuming you're referring to me in the quoted.  If not, I apologize).  That's just silly.  There is a clear middle ground between the extremes of demonizing Castro as a monster in the same circle of hell as Stalin and Mao, and celebrating Castro as a counter-culture hero of the downtrodden.  Both gravely misjudge the reality of the man (see below).

6 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I know this is the US Politics thread, and I guess this is legit because it's about US reaction, but I can't let that by without actually quoting his words. Castro was a remarkable leader, and beloved by many, though not all, of course. And Cuba was one of those shitholes Trump talks about, because it had US supported dictators and a long history of intervention, through the power of money and actual intervention after the Platt Amendment put the US military in the country.

First, Trudeau's comments came long before Trump and his shittyness, so let's thankfully put the latter aside.  And yes, Castro was a remarkable leader.  He was perhaps the greatest speechmaker of the 20th century (his only real rival being Churchill).  He was a resolute leader that steadfastly fought for what he believed in, which included many outstanding and egalitarian policy advancements for the Cuban people.  I have no problem recognizing that - which means I have no problem with the first part of Trudeau's quote:  “Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century."  That's inarguable.

6 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Or the fact that Trudeau said Castro loved Cuba, and Cubans loved him back?

Yes, this is the problem.  For all Castro's merits, he still tortured and killed a lot of people.  A lot of his own people.  It's the same reason why seeing a hipster with a Che Guevara poster or t-shirt is eye-rolling at best and violently offensive at worst.  No matter how much good - in my own view - each figure did to raise awareness of how the West oppressed the third world during the Cold War (and continues to oppress, make no mistake); no matter how admirable it is that they fought against asymmetric odds to retain the sovereignty of their people; no matter how hypocritical it is for US leaders to criticize them for their tactics when our hands are much dirtier; it does not wipe away the fact they tortured and murdered political dissidents, and in Castro's case continued to oppress any political opposition for half a century.

So, when Trudeau says "both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for ‘el Comandante," it is an incredibly naive statement.  It also is a slap in the face to the large group of Cubans Castro killed, tortured, or exiled.  Further, it suggests a naivete that will be seized upon by oppressive regimes throughout the world - in a similar fashion to how Putin is brazenly gaming Trump.  In short, it makes Trudeau look like one of those dumb hipsters wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt that I laugh at on the street.

Finally, as an aside, I can't complete an entire post on Castro without mentioning the Cuban Missile Crisis.  There were many heroes during that tumultuous fortnight.  But if there was any villain, it is decidedly Castro.  Castro urged Khrushchev to strike first against the US.  To strike first with nuclear weapons.  Which he unquestionably knew would lead to the absolute destruction of his country and people.  How anyone can celebrate such a man is beyond me.

[MercenaryChef]

9 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Yeah, I mean, how is the President 'in perfect health' at all newsworthy?  They literally say that for all Presidents at all times except for the most extreme circumstances.  Even if he had early onset dementia, the public would hear the same news.

I mean there is exactly zero percent chance he weighs under 240.  I've weighed 250 before and not carried around that much weight.  If I'd wager a guess I'd say he's more in the 275 range.  6'3" and 239 lbs?  Give me a break.  And if they're gonna lie about something as easily false as that, do you really think they'd tell the truth about his mental stability?

 

you shut your fucking mouth.  

Trump is 239 pounds of powerful muscle, and stable genius. 

fear him at 275! pound for pound he is already the most unracist human since the dalai lama.

[Ormond]

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm curious, absent early onset dementia, general cognitive decline and/or a physical head injury, what other biological and/or physical events would cause your speech patterns to change and/or decline? I ask because I've seen interviews with Trump from the 80's and 90's, and while he does repeat himself now and then, it's nothing like it is today. And more importantly, he was able to have a long conversation and not pinball all over the place. He was making clear thoughts and statements and he was finishing them before moving on to the next thing he wanted discuss. Today, he jackknifes all over the place, leaving thoughts incomplete and transitioning to totally unrelated subjects that makes his comments sound like a word salad. Reading the transcripts of his comments can frankly be difficult, especially when you're trying to parse out a coherent thought.  

I'd like to have an assessment of this by independent research before commenting. I would think that we see/hear a much larger % of Trump's language today then we did in those interviews in the 80's and 90's. Were those interviews promotional things where he got the questions in advance? 
There certainly is research which discusses language changes that occur as precursors to dementia. In general, using more words to answer a question and using more imprecise words like "thing" and "something" much more than before may be signs of incipient dementia, IF they are a change from how the person functioned earlier. But this research is still at its early stages and it hasn't been developed enough to be really diagnostic.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/healthy-living/wellbeing/news/a27695/rambling-speech-precursor-dementia/

[Martell Spy]

Jeff Flake’s Empty Words
Until the senator is willing to oppose his own party’s agenda, his anti-Trump speeches are meaningless.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/jeff-flakes-empty-words.html

Quote

A small list of things they could demand, none of which are an affront to small-c conservative principles: a bill protecting Robert Mueller’s investigation; actual oversight of Trump’s business dealings and Emoluments Clause issues; a new look at the president’s power over nuclear weapons; promises from Trump to refrain from attacking ethnic and racial minorities and the media; promises from Trump to cease attacking the Justice Department’s integrity; ethics compliance among members of the executive branch; acceptance of 2016’s election results, and a promise to not try and restrict the franchise.

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/new-jersey-and-new-york-take-steps-toward-legalizing-weed.html

New Jersey Governor Vows to Legalize Weed, Cuomo Promises to Think About It