U.S. Politics: And a Happy "Shithole" Year

[GAROVORKIN]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

This is the reference.

Thanks .

[butterbumps!]

23 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Yeah, I mean, how is the President 'in perfect health' at all newsworthy?  They literally say that for all Presidents at all times except for the most extreme circumstances.  Even if he had early onset dementia, the public would hear the same news.

I mean there is exactly zero percent chance he weighs under 240.  I've weighed 250 before and not carried around that much weight.  If I'd wager a guess I'd say he's more in the 275 range.  6'3" and 239 lbs?  Give me a break.  And if they're gonna lie about something as easily false as that, do you really think they'd tell the truth about his mental stability?

 

I'm fairly positive the dipshit isn't actually 6'3."   I know his NY driver's license says 6'2," but I don't think he's even that.  He's decidedly shorter when pictured next to 6'3 Jeb, and shorter than 6'2 Justin Trudeau.   He also looks a little shorter than Obama at 6'1 in a lot of pictures they're in (or as tall; but not taller).  Maybe some of that shorter look is due to posture (though I think he makes up for the posture reduction with his lifts).  Anyway, definitely less than 6'3," definitely more than 240.   

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, aceluby said:

I mean there is exactly zero percent chance he weighs under 240.  I've weighed 250 before and not carried around that much weight.  If I'd wager a guess I'd say he's more in the 275 range.  6'3" and 239 lbs?  Give me a break.  And if they're gonna lie about something as easily false as that, do you really think they'd tell the truth about his mental stability?

I agree with just about everything you said, but I could theoretically see him being at his current height and (perceived) mass and still weighing below 240. I'm 3 inches shorter than him and right now weigh around 250-255 (need to get that down), but I've also played sports since I was a kid and can squat 305 and bench 225.

OTOH, I doubt Trump has ever even seen a barbell in his entire life and by all reports eats hardly anything but fast food, which means his body mass is composed of very little muscle and a lot of fat. 

I get surprised comments all the time when I have to step on the scale at a doctor's office, since I weigh a lot more than I appear to, so I can see it working in the opposite direction in Trump's case.

Now, that being said, there is the whole issue of Trump magically growing an inch during the campaign to avoid a BMI indicating obesity.

[Kalbear]

WHERE IS TRUMP'S BMI CERTIFICATE

[LongRider]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

WHERE IS TRUMP'S BMI CERTIFICATE

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

This may just be for the sake of argument, but U.S. Presidents have a well-documented history of hiding their health issues, even as recently as Reagan's last few years in office. 

This isn't exactly surprising, given that the President's health is itself a national security issue.

I believe I heard one presidential historian say that at least 40% of U.S. President had a diagnosable mental or physical disorder. And oddly enough, a lot of the most popular ones did. Lincoln had severe depression. Teddy Roosevelt was a psychopath of sorts. FDR and JFK's health issues are well known. And Reagan possibly had Alzheimer's while still in office. 

35 minutes ago, aceluby said:

I mean there is exactly zero percent chance he weighs under 240.  I've weighed 250 before and not carried around that much weight.  If I'd wager a guess I'd say he's more in the 275 range.  6'3" and 239 lbs?  Give me a break.  And if they're gonna lie about something as easily false as that, do you really think they'd tell the truth about his mental stability?

 

Trump has said that he's 6'2 for most of his adult life. Logic leads me to believe that he's shrunken over time, not grown. And it's really fishy how they got him just below the obesity line. So yeah, I agree something's not right. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

24 minutes ago, Ormond said:

I'd like to have an assessment of this by independent research before commenting. I would think that we see/hear a much larger % of Trump's language today then we did in those interviews in the 80's and 90's. Were those interviews promotional things where he got the questions in advance? 
There certainly is research which discusses language changes that occur as precursors to dementia. In general, using more words to answer a question and using more imprecise words like "thing" and "something" much more than before may be signs of incipient dementia, IF they are a change from how the person functioned earlier. But this research is still at its early stages and it hasn't been developed enough to be really diagnostic.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/healthy-living/wellbeing/news/a27695/rambling-speech-precursor-dementia/

Thanks for the response. There are actually a ton of interviews that he did, and they range from him promoting something to him just having fun with his famous friends on T.V. His speech patterns seem, unscientifically, totally normal. Today he speaks like no one I've ever heard.

Interesting to hear that the research is in it's early stages. I figured there would be a wealth of data in that sub-field. But regardless, what you described does sound a lot life Trump. 

[Martell Spy]

When an Idiot Calls You a Loser
Understanding Trump’s “Fake News Awards.”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/understanding-trumps-fake-news-awards.html

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I agree with just about everything you said, but I could theoretically see him being at his current height and (perceived) mass and still weighing below 240. I'm 3 inches shorter than him and right now weigh around 250-255 (need to get that down), but I've also played sports since I was a kid and can squat 305 and bench 225.

OTOH, I doubt Trump has ever even seen a barbell in his entire life and by all reports eats hardly anything but fast food, which means his body mass is composed of very little muscle and a lot of fat. 

I get surprised comments all the time when I have to step on the scale at a doctor's office, since I weigh a lot more than I appear to, so I can see it working in the opposite direction in Trump's case.

Now, that being said, there is the whole issue of Trump magically growing an inch during the campaign to avoid a BMI indicating obesity.

He actually is on the record saying exercise is bad for you. He's one of those people that thinks you get a certain amount of energy/calories/whatever at the start of your life and exercising wastes it and causes you to die early:

Quote

How healthy is President Donald Trump? We don’t really know. The president never released his full medical records, and instead opted for a surreal on-air physical with TV star Dr. Oz.

One health aspect Trump is transparent about: He doesn’t like to break a sweat. To be more precise, he thinks physical activity will kill you faster.

In a remarkable New Yorker story this week about how Donald Trump could realistically be removed from the presidency, Evan Osnos writes: “Other than golf, he considers exercise misguided, arguing that a person, like a battery, is born with a finite amount of energy.”

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/5/9/15590962/donald-trump-thinks-exercise-will-kill-you

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

He actually is on the record saying exercise is bad for you. He's one of those people that thinks you get a certain amount of energy/calories/whatever at the start of your life and exercising wastes it and causes you to die early:

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/5/9/15590962/donald-trump-thinks-exercise-will-kill-you

Yep, that's the story I was thinking about when I wrote that.

[Fragile Bird]

At 6'3" his BMI is 29.9, overweight. At 6'2" his BMI is 30.1, obese. If he's actually 6'1", his BMI is 31.5.

If he actually weighs, say, 20 pounds more, and I've seen enough pictures of his backside on the golf course to believe he weighs at least 20 pounds more, those respective BMI numbers are 32.4, 33.3 and 34.2

[DMC]

8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I don’t think we’re disagreeing with one another, just looking at this from different perspectives. I agree that Trump doesn’t care about, or even really understand, the legislative process. But I wasn’t talking about that, at least not directly. I was talking about the politics of power. And that’s what matters to Trump. Trump probably couldn’t care less about most pieces of legislation, outside of a few that might upset his base. But he does care about loyalty, and that specifically, people are loyal to him. And Republicans, well aware of this, are creating a symbiotic relationship in which they feed into that in exchange for him signing legislation that they want codified into law. But what they aren’t factoring in is that when push comes to shove, the base will back Trump. He owns their party now, dominating it, and that’s been his main goal, not specific policy. And that’s my point. He’s giving them what they want in exchange for increasing his control over the party. Now, that in and of itself doesn’t mean a lot in normal times, but I’m left wondering if he’s hoping to change what’s considered normal. And if we reach that point, if we haven’t already, and he owns them in exchange for their legislation, what then?

Hm.  Well, I certainly agree that the GOP leadership is exchanging loyalty for acquiescence from Trump on their policies.  I think the best insight into Trump's psyche (of the myriad that are bandied about) is that he's purely transactional, and this reflects that.  But, I think they entirely are factoring in that the base will back Trump when push comes to shove.  That's why they are willing - and one could argue politically required - to make such a tradeoff in the first place.  I think this is a chicken or egg disagreement - I think Trump already dominated control over the 30% of the electorate (or 75% of the GOP) and that's why GOP members publicly express loyalty, while you think Trump has gained this through such expressed loyalty.  What's the breaking point? is perhaps the most important question we've all been wondering for a year now.  I don't think anybody knows the answer.

Quote

Funny that you mention that. I’m currently reading 1984, and while I’ll agree that it’s overrated as a piece of literature, you have to admit that it predicted a lot of things correctly.

Sure, there are certain aspects of Trump that 1984 specifically and amazingly has exactly on the nose.  

9 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

And I don't think Kim Jong Un posts on these boards, so while I wouldn't ever ask you to have a conversation with a monster like that or to refuse to rise to his bait I feel compelled to beg you not to give up on anybody in this country or general human society out of hand.

 to this sentiment, a hundred times over.

7 hours ago, Kalbear said:

And that's what the Republican party is turning into - a far more openly racist, sexist group of people who aren't even bothering with dogwhistles.

Yeah "dogwhistles" was an emerging subfield in the political behavior literature.  Then Trump came along.  It very much fucked up the research agenda of a colleague.

6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Sadly I’ve never read Brave New World, though I know what it’s about and I’ve been meaning to add it to my reading queue. There’s just too much to get to.

You should!  It's much more well-written and entertaining than the usual dystopian novel.

3 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Tim Pawlenty passes on running for Franken's vacated seat in Minnesota. That leaves Bachmann as the highest-profile candidate considering running in opposition to Smith to serve out the remainder of Franken's term. That seems like more good news for Democrats in 2018.

The most important reason this is good news is because a race against Pawlenty would require the party to commit substantial resources to the contest.  Now they can hopefully allocate that elsewhere.

1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

This may just be for the sake of argument, but U.S. Presidents have a well-documented history of hiding their health issues, even as recently as Reagan's last few years in office. 

Right.  One of the least well-known stories of American history is how Edith Wilson (Woodrow's second wife) essentially ran the country for almost two years.  And Trump lying about his health/weight is, like, number 26,845 on my list of grievances.

[butterbumps!]

14 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Trump has said that he's 6'2 for most of his adult life. Logic leads me to believe that he's shrunken over time, not grown. And it's really fishy how they got him just below the obesity line. So yeah, I agree something's not right. 

Not just that, but I don't believe for a second that Trump did not exaggerate his height throughout his life even then.  He's always got to sell himself as the most genius, least racist, largest douchebag and so forth.  I'm guessing the shitrag may have been more like 6'0-6'1, but his delusions of grandeur and thirst for dominance compelled him to adopt the pointless 6'2 narrative.    

[Aemon Stark]

2 hours ago, Fez said:

Apparently it was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment, seen here: http://dementia.ie/images/uploads/site-images/MoCA-Test-English_7_1.pdf

I have not had any significant close contact with someone with dementia or alzheimer's (a great-aunt of mine has early on-set, and is still almost completely functional), so I don't know how far you have to progress before you can't pass this test. But to my uninformed eyes, it sure looks like a test that only people with serious progression of dementia would not pass 30/30.

ETA: So Trump could have an early case and not have that test pick it up. 

As for the other big possible health issue, the doctor says that Trump's slurred words last month were due to dehydration only; likely caused by sudafed.

It kinda depends on a person's background and education level. The MoCA is better at detecting subtler cognitive problems even in educated people, but it is still a very low bar for anyone in a significant occupation let alone POTUS. It assesses executive function to some extent (ahem *judgement* and *decision-making*), but there are better more specific tests like the frontal assessment battery. Either way, Trump certainly seems to display narcissistic and antisocial personality traits. Dementia would mean memory deficits combined with worsening functioning in one or more other cognitive domains. I can't imagine he meets criteria for that, but at the end of the day he's really just a bad person. 

But then we already knew that much. 

[Fragile Bird]

Justin Trudeau is 6'2" and here's a pretty good picture of the two of them together. Trudeau looks a smidge taller, but in other pictures they look almost the same height, but the angles might be deceptive. You also can't tell what kind of shoes Trump is wearing, or, of course, there are lifts in his shoes. https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/trumps-trudeaus-white-house.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=720&h=466&crop=1

[Dr. Pepper]

This is such a ridiculous and superficial question, but does anyone think Trump actually knows that he's horrifically ugly?  It's always been the joke.  Ugly dude with stupid hair and I assumed he just built his persona around it.  But now I wonder if he actually knows or is in complete denial about the way he looks.  

[Martell Spy]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This is such a ridiculous and superficial question, but does anyone think Trump actually knows that he's horrifically ugly?  It's always been the joke.  Ugly dude with stupid hair and I assumed he just built his persona around it.  But now I wonder if he actually knows or is in complete denial about the way he looks.  

I would assume he goes by Pickup Artist/MRA Logic. His looks aren't really relevant because he has lots of cash and is an Alpha, and is thus always desirable. Looks are only really relevant for females and they will be constantly judged on this. Don Jr. didn't pick up talking like an MRA by accident.

[LongRider]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This is such a ridiculous and superficial question, but does anyone think Trump actually knows that he's horrifically ugly?  It's always been the joke.  Ugly dude with stupid hair and I assumed he just built his persona around it.  But now I wonder if he actually knows or is in complete denial about the way he looks.  

Trumps no beauty, but horrific?  Bannon would foot that bill.  Both however, are even uglier on the inside, even, than the outside.  

[Dr. Pepper]

5 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Trumps no beauty, but horrific?  Bannon would foot that bill.  Both however, are even uglier on the inside, even, than the outside.  

Bannon definitely also foots that bill, but Trump is definitely there.  I used to wonder what sort of joke it was the one of the ugliest people in the world was judging a beauty pageant.  Trump and Bannon are the sorts where when you look at them, you sort of just want to gag because they are that disgusting.  Made all the worse by being horrible people, too.  

I guess @Martell Spy is right about how money makes Trump's looks not matter to him.  Not sure Bannon's excuse.

[LongRider]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I guess @Martell Spy is right about how money makes Trump's looks not matter to him.  Not sure Bannon's excuse.

I would guess that Trump is very insecure, but vain about his looks.  Bannon, he's so superior due to his intelligence that looks take a backseat.  I mean, consider Einstein, he wouldn't even comb his hair!