Clegane'sPup Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: What I'm trying (not very well) to say is that we were left with cliffhangers indicating the end of several stories in AFFC and ADWD. We could see Brienne die in Jamie 1 or vice versa. Anything can happen. Sam could go running after Marwyn. Euron could attack Old Town and kill both of them. There are so many possibilities, divica. And I'm not counting a 2 part TWOW out, either. If you have a week to read the old topic in the TWOW subforum it is called Merging Story Lines and has a great deal to offer regarding this. I think you are a very amiable and polite poster. Kudos. Many will not remember the TV series LOST which was referenced by Martin in the above article I linked. I gotta look at what Martin said and what Martin has written in his saga. The article says: Martin knows what it’s like to be provoked by a serial entertainment. He experienced it himself as a faithful viewer of “Lost,” the ABC adventure series about a group of castaways trapped on a mysterious island. “I kept watching it and I was fascinated,” he recalls. “They’d introduce these things and I thought that I knew where it was going. Then they’d introduce some other thing and I’d rethink it.” Like many “Lost” fans, Martin resented the series’s mystical ending, which left dozens of narrative threads dangling. “ We watched it every week trying to figure it out, and as it got deeper and deeper I kept saying, ‘They better have something good in mind for the end. This end better pay off here.’ And then I felt so cheated when we got to the conclusion.”/ I’m at the point I just want an ending whatever it is. Whether it is a nightmare, a dream, time travel or whether Jon and Dany spawn a new ruler who turns Westeros into a peaceful seven kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Billy Tipton Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Why do I get the disconcerting feeling that there are more words on this current thread, than the amount of words George added to the final manuscript in all of 2017? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: We have 2 big battles about to resolved that should eliminate as many as 5 POVs and several villains rendering a chunk of conflict obsolete. If you look at Winterfell, where there are no eyes inside. So who will tell the tale? Theon and Asha are outside. Last I heard Bran was only speaking through the heart tree. Will Stannis die? Mance? The Boltons? Manderly? Obviously we need to know this information and Bran can actually tell all of it in a single chapter. We are already fairly progressed in the Arianne chapters. Once she meets up with her characters we don't need that other POV or hers, depending on how it falls out. Certainly we can use the past to predict the future. Still this story is designed to get everyone on the path they need to be on. As I say, I just watched GRRM describe TWOW and its progress specific to narrowing POVs. We just discussed Brienne and Jamie. for 2 weeks I have a vision for how this could tidy up. Kings Landing is reasonably cut and dry. If Sansa has progressed as much as the sample chapter assures us she may only need 2 more chapters to tell her story. A few years back I was really wondering about this and made a topic over in the TWOW subforum where readers with very different ideas from my own showed me how every single character and story could be ended. Jon won't have a POV until he is restored to health or revived. When/if he gets his POV back there will be no need for Melisandre's POV. No prologue characters have repeated. Arya may not be able to stay in Braavos now forcing her back to Westeros or out toward Mereen. Truth is Bran can tell this story in 3rd person for the entire north. As much as I enjoy all the Greyjoy POVs at least Vic, Aeron and Theon are in precarious situations. What I'm trying (not very well) to say is that we were left with cliffhangers indicating the end of several stories in AFFC and ADWD. We could see Brienne die in Jamie 1 or vice versa. Anything can happen. Sam could go running after Marwyn. Euron could attack Old Town and kill both of them. There are so many possibilities, divica. And I'm not counting a 2 part TWOW out, either. If you have a week to read the old topic in the TWOW subforum it is called Merging Story Lines and has a great deal to offer regarding this. I just don t see it. For example we will need at least 1 pov for the tourney and we will have moved very little in the vale storyline. In KL a lot has to happen. Until Aegon marches there we will have povs of KL. Ariane has to have more povs about Aegon and her sending letters to doran to decide the involvement of dorne. I think the sample champters already resolved the battle of meereen and nobody died. Besides, barristan can t die before danny arriving because he is the pov about how meereen is being governed, tyrion still has too low influence. Victarion might die at any moment, but he is garanteed at least more 1 pov. Sam and aeron can t both die because we need a pov on euron. Asha and theon can t both die because we need a pov on stannis vs Bolton for now. We will probably get a pov of jon in ghost, bran also has his shit to deal with in the cave, jon con will be the pov about the battle of storms end... If grrm decides to kill everybody he can easily write winds in a volume. But is it realistic that he is going to kill 10 povs in their first pov chapter? While it may happen to 1 or 2 it won t happen to 10... Pov characters may die but it will be organic and happen through the book. And you can be completly right about it being possible to merge a lot of stories and kill characters. But I just don t see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Sour Billy Tipton said: Why do I get the disconcerting feeling that there are more words on this current thread, than the amount of words George added to the final manuscript in all of 2017? Because you are an unbeliver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Billy Tipton Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, divica said: Because you are an unbeliver! Yeah, I guess I am. At this point, George should consider hanging ASOIAF up. I doubt any real progress is being made. I mean, over two years ago the poor guy was delusional enough to think he could be finished TWOW in a matter of months. He's rightfully more interested in other business ventures, traveling, and editing Wild Cards. He shouldn't be relegated to his lonely office, only to deal with the pressure and stress of these novels. A lot of people on here laugh at the song and phrase "GRRM is not your bitch" well maybe he ought to take it to a new level and see if those same people will still stand by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said: Yeah, I guess I am. At this point, maybe George ought to consider hanging ASOIAF up. I doubt any real progress is being made. I mean, over two years ago the poor guy was delusional enough to think he could be finished TWOW in a matter of months. He's rightfully more interested in other business ventures, traveling, and editing Wild Cards. He shouldn't be relegated to his lonely office, only to deal with the pressure and stress of these novels. A lot of people on here laugh at the song and phrase "GRRM is not your bitch" well maybe he ought to take it to a new level and see if those same people will still stand by him. I think it will depend on when twow is published and the size of the book(s) (if it is 2 vols and it is published this year we are talking about less than 4 years to write a vol, that is acceptable). And that post about needing some months to finish twow will always make as much sense as needing 6 years to write adwd. I will never understand it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Billy Tipton Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, divica said: I think it will depend on when twow is published You can't keep assuming it will be finished. I know it sounds like we're only joshing you, but it's true. I think TWOW will be completed eventually too. Except, I no longer expect it to be with supreme certainty. Maybe he'll finish it one day, maybe he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 44 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: I think you are a very amiable and polite poster. Kudos. Many will not remember the TV series LOST which was referenced by Martin in the above article I linked. I gotta look at what Martin said and what Martin has written in his saga. The article says: Martin knows what it’s like to be provoked by a serial entertainment. He experienced it himself as a faithful viewer of “Lost,” the ABC adventure series about a group of castaways trapped on a mysterious island. “I kept watching it and I was fascinated,” he recalls. “They’d introduce these things and I thought that I knew where it was going. Then they’d introduce some other thing and I’d rethink it.” Like many “Lost” fans, Martin resented the series’s mystical ending, which left dozens of narrative threads dangling. “ We watched it every week trying to figure it out, and as it got deeper and deeper I kept saying, ‘They better have something good in mind for the end. This end better pay off here.’ And then I felt so cheated when we got to the conclusion.”/ I’m at the point I just want an ending whatever it is. Whether it is a nightmare, a dream, time travel or whether Jon and Dany spawn a new ruler who turns Westeros into a peaceful seven kingdoms. Hi Pup! You are too kind. This is just 1 of those things that isn't worth being a right jerk over. I'm very satisfied just figuring out the next move or trying to at least. I do have the benefit of a very long discussion with the likes of Nevets, Dornish Dame, bemused and so many others whose opinions I have come to respect a great deal especially if I don't agree. They dedicated a lot of time to the conversation and opening my eyes to possibility. I'm not big on shameless plugs, but it was a great discussion and I do recommend it to anyone interested in how culling POVs could happen effectively. LOST broke a very long swear off of TV for me. And I believe I watched on Netflix maybe 3 years after the show ended. I couldn't figure out what would happen next and didn't hate the ending. It surprised me, but again, I was in way over my head for a 1st foray back into television since I was a child. The ending to ASOIAF does matter to me. (Still a book snob...) I expect a deeply satisfying ending. That is my faith in this writer. It's still the journey for me, old friend. I'm not even ready for an ending yet. Not while Jamie is so shiny to me. Maybe next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 50 minutes ago, divica said: I just don t see it. For example we will need at least 1 pov for the tourney and we will have moved very little in the vale storyline. In KL a lot has to happen. Until Aegon marches there we will have povs of KL. Ariane has to have more povs about Aegon and her sending letters to doran to decide the involvement of dorne. I think the sample champters already resolved the battle of meereen and nobody died. Besides, barristan can t die before danny arriving because he is the pov about how meereen is being governed, tyrion still has too low influence. Victarion might die at any moment, but he is garanteed at least more 1 pov. Sam and aeron can t both die because we need a pov on euron. Asha and theon can t both die because we need a pov on stannis vs Bolton for now. We will probably get a pov of jon in ghost, bran also has his shit to deal with in the cave, jon con will be the pov about the battle of storms end... If grrm decides to kill everybody he can easily write winds in a volume. But is it realistic that he is going to kill 10 povs in their first pov chapter? While it may happen to 1 or 2 it won t happen to 10... Pov characters may die but it will be organic and happen through the book. And you can be completly right about it being possible to merge a lot of stories and kill characters. But I just don t see it. I can't make you see what you cannot. We will find out together when we read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dacey Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said: I would like to read the next installment of this saga. Granted the man has a busy life and has enriched the community of the arts. A writer does not owe anyone anything. A writer tells a story or no. I can only hope that he finishes his tale. Step back a moment and think about the fame and notoriety that Martin achieved with his HBO deal and read this 2011 article. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/04/11/just-write-it If anyone reads the article and steps outside the forum bubble I would be interested in their thoughts. Hi there! I'm new to the forum I didn't know anything about the fandom up until two months ago... everything in the article is new to me. What can I say? People are crazy. It makes no sense to me that someone would chose to spend time being a 'detrator'. But then, it makes no sense to my husband that I spend time here, on an online forum discussing theories and symbolism in fantasy books. To each their own, as long as everyone is respectful. Poor Martin thought. thanks for the link! This passage made me so curious: Martin explained that he’s been tinkering with some parts of “A Dance with Dragons” for ten years. He has a “real love-hate relationship” with a chapter that focusses on Tyrion Lannister, the dwarf: “I ripped it out and put it back in, I ripped it out and put it back in. Then I put it in as a dream sequence, and then I ripped it out again. This is the stuff I’ve been doing.” I wonder what it could be that would work both as a dream sequence or a real-life event, and f it made it to Dance in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said: Hi there! I'm new to the forum I didn't know anything about the fandom up until two months ago... everything in the article is new to me. What can I say? People are crazy. It makes no sense to me that someone would chose to spend time being a 'detrator'. But then, it makes no sense to my husband that I spend time here, on an online forum discussing theories and symbolism in fantasy books. To each their own, as long as everyone is respectful. Poor Martin thought. thanks for the link! This passage made me so curious: Martin explained that he’s been tinkering with some parts of “A Dance with Dragons” for ten years. He has a “real love-hate relationship” with a chapter that focusses on Tyrion Lannister, the dwarf: “I ripped it out and put it back in, I ripped it out and put it back in. Then I put it in as a dream sequence, and then I ripped it out again. This is the stuff I’ve been doing.” I wonder what it could be that would work both as a dream sequence or a real-life event, and f it made it to Dance in the end. The shipwreck. It's got to be the shipwreck! Or the slavery. Yah, the time as a slave in the grotesquery. I remember a year or so back over in the TWOW subforum it was reported that GRRM was again having difficulty with a Tyrion chapter. IIRC Tyrion had moved to a very dark place and GRRM was having a bad time with it...deja vu! That damned Tyrion. I thought the part about George and Parris being naked was fascinating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, Curled Finger said: The shipwreck. It's got to be the shipwreck! Or the slavery. Yah, the time as a slave in the grotesquery. I remember a year or so back over in the TWOW subforum it was reported that GRRM was again having difficulty with a Tyrion chapter. IIRC Tyrion had moved to a very dark place and GRRM was having a bad time with it...deja vu! That damned Tyrion. I thought the part about George and Parris being naked was fascinating... If the blame for the delay is tyrion I think someone should start a petition to kill the damn dwarf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumosaca Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, divica said: If the blame for the delay is tyrion I think someone should start a petition to kill the damn dwarf! Impossible. The Imp is an immortal killing machine. He will die in his own bed, at the age of eighty, with... well, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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