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Sigella

Bael the Bard Baelish

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So I just read up on Bael the Bard since its been bugging me that the character is associated with Mance and Rhaegar, when we have Petyr BAELish. My point being that the Bard is actually foreshadows LF's arc and not Mance or Rhaegar.

From the wiki:

"According to free folk legend, Lord Brandon Stark, the liege of the north, once called Bael a coward." - This fits with LF's duel with Brandon for Cat, I think.

"To take revenge of this affront and prove his courage, Bael climbed the Wall, took the kingsroad, and entered Winterfell under the guise of a singer named Sygerrik of Skagos, which means "deceiver" in the old language of Skagos. There, he sang until midnight for the lord" - This fits with LF tricking the Ned and feeding him lies in KL.

"Impressed by his skills as a singer, Lord Stark asked him what he wanted as a reward, and Bael only asked for the most beautiful flower blooming in Winterfell's gardens. As the blue winter roses were just blooming, Brandon Stark accepted to offer him one. The following morning, the single, virgin daughter of the lord had disappeared, and in her bed was the blue winter rose." - Again lying to Ned and then making off with Sansa.

"Lord Brandon sent the members of the Night's Watch looking for them beyond the Wall, but they never found Bael or the girl. The Stark line was on the verge of extinction, when one day the girl was back in her room, holding in her hand an infant: they had actually never left Winterfell, staying hidden in the crypts. Bael's bastard with Brandon's daughter became the new Lord Stark."- So this fits with Alayne and what she has to look forward to :(

"When thirty years later Bael was King-Beyond-the-Wall and led the wildlings' army south, he had to fight his own son at the Frozen Ford. There, incapable of killing his own blood, he let himself be killed by Lord Stark. His son brought back Bael's head to Winterfell, and his mother who had loved the bard, seeing the trophy, killed herself from the top of a tower. The son was eventually slain by the Boltons." - If I am correct in viewing Bael as Baelish this should be the analogy to LF's demise.

 

Any thoughts?

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This is covered by Jacob Preston's video about LF's plans. It fits well but that doesn't mean it will be the same.

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50 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

This is covered by Jacob Preston's video about LF's plans. It fits well but that doesn't mean it will be the same.

Ok. I have no clue about this Preston Jacobs-person and I couldnt find a thread on it so... 

He is on youtube, right?

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Also discussed in 3rd video

Edited by Tygett Lannister

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2 hours ago, Sigella said:

Any thoughts?

I like it. The snow castle seems to link Baelish to Winterfell, and the doll got decapitated like Bael did. It wouldn't surprise me if Sansa spent winter in cold storage in the crypts (similar to Jon's state now), but I can't see where a future baby - for anyone - would fit in; the environment is just so hostile. The other thing that strikes me is that midnight appears at the beginning of Bael's story, but is more likely to be at the end of Baelish. Maybe the timetable doesn't matter so much, and it's just the events that matter.

(I've not seen the videos either, but I assume the OP covered most of it.)

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Thanks @Sigella for the thought-provoking OP!  Damn I enjoy this forum for catching interesting theories and possible foreshadowing of future events.  I can't see LF getting Sansa pregnant and then being killed by his heir, but what if we perhaps add Harry to this mix somehow?  Getting sort of crackpot here, but maybe LF is sterile now (yeah I know he knocked up Lysa 15 years ago, bear with me) and his plan is to get Harry to impregnate Sansa, have Harry killed, claim Sansa for himself so as to not have her dishonored, then when in Winterfell Sansa discovers Littlefinger arranged Harry's murder she finally kills LF herself?  Yeah, pretty tin foil I guess.  Pretty much just writing first things coming to mind though... I'm going to have to ponder this and come back and see what more experienced readers come up with.

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2 hours ago, Springwatch said:

I like it. The snow castle seems to link Baelish to Winterfell, and the doll got decapitated like Bael did. It wouldn't surprise me if Sansa spent winter in cold storage in the crypts (similar to Jon's state now), but I can't see where a future baby - for anyone - would fit in; the environment is just so hostile. The other thing that strikes me is that midnight appears at the beginning of Bael's story, but is more likely to be at the end of Baelish. Maybe the timetable doesn't matter so much, and it's just the events that matter.

(I've not seen the videos either, but I assume the OP covered most of it.)

Thank you! 

Yeah, I didn't notice the midnight-part, thank you for pointing it out, I agree it likely represents the Long Night - which would mean LF won't die until that is in swing.

On the "cuckold baby": Sweetrobin do come to mind, although I'm having doubts as to wether LF would stay his sword on the kid he is already poisoning?

But! Sansa is LF own "cuckold baby" by the Alayne-lie, isn't she? She is actually the only character LF seems to have any real interest in, maybe even to the extent that he'd refuse to kill her..?

 

Edited by Sigella

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5 hours ago, Sigella said:

So I just read up on Bael the Bard since its been bugging me that the character is associated with Mance and Rhaegar, when we have Petyr BAELish. My point being that the Bard is actually foreshadows LF's arc and not Mance or Rhaegar.

From the wiki:

"According to free folk legend, Lord Brandon Stark, the liege of the north, once called Bael a coward." - This fits with LF's duel with Brandon for Cat, I think.

"To take revenge of this affront and prove his courage, Bael climbed the Wall, took the kingsroad, and entered Winterfell under the guise of a singer named Sygerrik of Skagos, which means "deceiver" in the old language of Skagos. There, he sang until midnight for the lord" - This fits with LF tricking the Ned and feeding him lies in KL.

"Impressed by his skills as a singer, Lord Stark asked him what he wanted as a reward, and Bael only asked for the most beautiful flower blooming in Winterfell's gardens. As the blue winter roses were just blooming, Brandon Stark accepted to offer him one. The following morning, the single, virgin daughter of the lord had disappeared, and in her bed was the blue winter rose." - Again lying to Ned and then making off with Sansa.

"Lord Brandon sent the members of the Night's Watch looking for them beyond the Wall, but they never found Bael or the girl. The Stark line was on the verge of extinction, when one day the girl was back in her room, holding in her hand an infant: they had actually never left Winterfell, staying hidden in the crypts. Bael's bastard with Brandon's daughter became the new Lord Stark."- So this fits with Alayne and what she has to look forward to :(

"When thirty years later Bael was King-Beyond-the-Wall and led the wildlings' army south, he had to fight his own son at the Frozen Ford. There, incapable of killing his own blood, he let himself be killed by Lord Stark. His son brought back Bael's head to Winterfell, and his mother who had loved the bard, seeing the trophy, killed herself from the top of a tower. The son was eventually slain by the Boltons." - If I am correct in viewing Bael as Baelish this should be the analogy to LF's demise.

 

Any thoughts?

I agree though i think his arch is meant to clue us in to the other archs, though each arch is slightly different.

Take the sisters Jeyne Poole and Sansa Stark. One is not really a sister to the other and is discarded after a time. This makes me think of Lyanna and Ashara Dayne. Yet both may still be close as Jeyne and Sansa were close. 

Bael may have had two daughters as i put forth in some recent threads, one just today about the War of 92ac.  These two children may have been hidden too.

Jeyne Poole-Arya Stark

Sansa Stark- Alyane                  (Alysanne?) Good Queen Alysanne? Sansa the missing (S)tark.

Im still trying to figure out what all happened back then so i can better understand what Baelish and Mance and Rhaegar were all up to. It's driving me nuts and i know i need other minds to look at it than just my own haha 

It mirrors Jon's story too with Mance which is why i can't help but pay more attention to Mance who is King beyond the wall and couldn't send his whole force against Jon cause of "Blood".  He claims it's cause his men have bled enough, yet, what's his real alternative, turn into an Other? Seems worth the lives to kill Jon and get past the wall no? Mance who repeats his Dornish wife lines again to Jon for no reason upon first meeting him and soooo many more clues. And a black brother was at Harrenhal when Mance was serving under Qorgyle at the same time. 

When was Little Finger deul with Brandon really? and when was he healed up enough weeks later to be able to send away? Little Finger knows what happened at Harrenhal, and he's playing along to Bael the Bard him self. When a blue winter rose was given at Harrenhal, a blue winter rose that is rare and only mentioned of in the north else wise.

I get blasted alot for this but i think it's all connected

 

Quote

 

"Nobody is a villain in their own story. We're all the heroes of our own stories. "

George R. R. Martin
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_r_r_martin_575871

 

 

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I agree though i think his arch is meant to clue us in to the other archs, though each arch is slightly different.

Take the sisters Jeyne Poole and Sansa Stark. One is not really a sister to the other and is discarded after a time. This makes me think of Lyanna and Ashara Dayne. Yet both may still be close as Jeyne and Sansa were close. 

Bael may have had two daughters as i put forth in some recent threads, one just today about the War of 92ac.  These two children may have been hidden too.

Jeyne Poole-Arya Stark

Sansa Stark- Alyane                  (Alysanne?) Good Queen Alysanne? Sansa the missing (S)tark.

Im still trying to figure out what all happened back then so i can better understand what Baelish and Mance and Rhaegar were all up to. It's driving me nuts and i know i need other minds to look at it than just my own haha 

It mirrors Jon's story too with Mance which is why i can't help but pay more attention to Mance who is King beyond the wall and couldn't send his whole force against Jon cause of "Blood".  He claims it's cause his men have bled enough, yet, what's his real alternative, turn into an Other? Seems worth the lives to kill Jon and get past the wall no? Mance who repeats his Dornish wife lines again to Jon for no reason upon first meeting him and soooo many more clues. And a black brother was at Harrenhal when Mance was serving under Qorgyle at the same time. 

When was Little Finger deul with Brandon really? and when was he healed up enough weeks later to be able to send away? Little Finger knows what happened at Harrenhal, and he's playing along to Bael the Bard him self. When a blue winter rose was given at Harrenhal, a blue winter rose that is rare and only mentioned of in the north else wise.

I get blasted alot for this but i think it's all connected

 

 

Good stuff. Brandon was 20 and Petyr 15 and it happened right after the betrothal was announced. So if we say LF is 40-45 now it should have happened 300 minus 25-30 years so 270-275 ac?

edit: sorry, checked the wiki and according to it LF was born 268 so accurate year is 283 ac :) 

Edited by Sigella

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1 minute ago, Sigella said:

Good stuff. Brandon was 20 and Petyr 15 and it happened right after the betrothal was announced. So if we say LF is 40-45 now it should have happened 300 minus 25-30 years so 270-275 ac?

Huh? Peter is just shy of 30 when cat see's him again. If he account is correct. So Peter is only in his early 30's sometime. Hard to pin point based on Cats accounts. But 270-275? Or are you just being sarcastic for some reason? We know it was either in 281 or 282 Ac. or round abouts. Some have some theories pushing it to 282-283 but again, that's based off Cat's account of Peter's age not lining up right. 

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6 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Huh? Peter is just shy of 30 when cat see's him again. If he account is correct. So Peter is only in his early 30's sometime. Hard to pin point based on Cats accounts. But 270-275? Or are you just being sarcastic for some reason? We know it was either in 281 or 282 Ac. or round abouts. Some have some theories pushing it to 282-283 but again, that's based off Cat's account of Peter's age not lining up right. 

yeah I fixed it :D 

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Just now, Sigella said:

yeah I fixed it :D 

Ok haha wasn't sure which way you were going with it :) Some people on here just dont like my thoughts haha

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23 minutes ago, Sigella said:

edit: sorry, checked the wiki and according to it LF was born 268 so accurate year is 283 ac

Brandon died in 282 AC, so the duel must have taken place then as well. Have a look here how it fits together.

Edited by The Wondering Wolf

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6 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Huh? Peter is just shy of 30 when cat see's him again. If he account is correct. So Peter is only in his early 30's sometime. Hard to pin point based on Cats accounts. But 270-275? Or are you just being sarcastic for some reason? We know it was either in 281 or 282 Ac. or round abouts. Some have some theories pushing it to 282-283 but again, that's based off Cat's account of Peter's age not lining up right. 

In Cat's wiki it says 282. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Catelyn_Stark#Betrothal_to_Brandon_Stark

 

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12 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Ok haha wasn't sure which way you were going with it :) Some people on here just dont like my thoughts haha

No I just thought he was that old :D

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8 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Brandon died in 282 AC, so the duel must have taken place then as well. Have a look here how it fits together.

Thanks!

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Littlefinger climbed the walls of Riverrun so to speak and "stole" Lysa when he couldn't steal Catelyn. If Robert Arryn is LF's son, we see a very Bael the Bard situation with the Arryns. His adversary for Catelyn was another Brandon Stark. If Robert is LF's son, he's poised to be his son's enemy as both have eyes for Sansa.

LF is trying to repeat this all again with Sansa though hopefully with better results.

ADWD Cersei II

It came to her suddenly that she had stood in this very spot before, on the day Lord Eddard Stark had lost his head. That was not supposed to happen. Joff was supposed to spare his life and send him to the Wall. Stark's eldest son would have followed him as Lord of Winterfell, but Sansa would have stayed at court, a hostage. Varys and Littlefinger had worked out the terms, and Ned Stark had swallowed his precious honor and confessed his treason to save his daughter's empty little head. I would have made Sansa a good marriage. A Lannister marriage. Not Joff, of course, but Lancel might have suited, or one of his younger brothers. Petyr Baelish had offered to wed the girl himself, she recalled, but of course that was impossible; he was much too lowborn. If Joff had only done as he was told, Winterfell would never have gone to war, and Father would have dealt with Robert's brothers.

Ba'al or Bael is an old god/demon in rl who's the First King of the Underworld. The mythology is rather complicated but here is some info.

http://genies.wikia.com/wiki/Bael

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1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

Ba'al or Bael is an old god/demon in rl who's the First King of the Underworld. The mythology is rather complicated but here is some info.

Oh my...this is glorious.  It ties in perfectly with a theory I have about old Bael the Bard - that he wasn't actually human.

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19 minutes ago, PrettyPig said:

Oh my...this is glorious.  It ties in perfectly with a theory I have about old Bael the Bard - that he wasn't actually human.

Are you thinking along these lines?

AGOT Eddard X

"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends." As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. "Eddard!" she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.

 

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31 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Are you thinking along these lines?

Ha!  Yes, something like that...I believe that the Bael tale itself (perhaps not exactly Ygritte's version of it, which is clearly modernized) is actually very, very old, and hints to a dark history for House Stark.      The idea that Ba'el is a demon of the underworld and also a fertility god plays perfectly into it, so your link made me very happy!

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