AlaskanSandman Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 The war of 92Ac and succession crisis. This is an attempt to lay out the clues given, and leave open the possibilities for all to decide. Who are the children of Bael the Bard and or Queen Alysanne. Or what was happening? This is just an attempt to show the clues and leave open the possibilities. Quote • Jocelyn Baratheon- Wife of Ameon 2nd son of Jaehaerys and mother of Rhaenys passed over in 92 AC who was born 52/61-?AC • Aemon Targaryen-2nd son and 3rd child of Jaehaerys and Alysanne and father of Rhaenys passed over in 92 AC. Born 52/61-92Ac • Gael the Winter Child- 13th child of Jaehaerys and Alysanne supposedly. Born in 62/83-99AC and drowned in 99Ac at age 16 or 37. Left with child after visited by traveling Singer/ Bard. These three possible children born at that time and after then we'll try to figure out who Gael's possible child is Daemon Targaryen and Criston Cole seem most likely but there are others to consider. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Vale: House Arryn With the unification of the realm and the establishment of the boy Ronnel Arryn (the King Who Flew) as the first Lord of the Eyrie, there were new opportunities for the house. It was no great surprise when Queen Rhaenys Targaryen arranged the betrothal of young Ronnel to the daughter of Torrhen Stark, for that was but one of the many such marriages she made in the name of peace. Sadly, Lord Ronnel later died a violent death at the hands of his brother Jonos the Kinslayer, but the Arryn line continued through a kinsman and has remained deeply involved in many of the great matters of the Seven Kingdoms. Rhaenys Targaryen Died In 10 AC, Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest When Torrhen Stark reached the banks of the Trident, he found a host half again the size of his own awaiting him south of the river. Riverlords, westermen, stormlanders, men of the Reach...all had come. And above their camp Balerion, Meraxes, and Vhagar prowled the sky in ever-widening circles. Torrhen's scouts had seen the ruins of Harrenhal, where slow, red fires still burned beneath the rubble. The King in the North had heard many accounts of the Field of Fire as well. He knew that the same fate might await him if he tried to force a crossing of the river. Some of his lords bannermen urged him to attack all the same, insisting that Northern valor would carry the day. Others urged him to fall back to Moat Cailin and make his stand there on Northern soil. The king's bastard brother Brandon Snow offered to cross the Trident alone under cover of darkness, to slay the dragons whilst they slept. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Lords of Winterfell After the Conquest and the unification of the Seven Kingdoms, the Starks became Wardens of the North rather than kings, swearing their fealty to the Iron Throne, yet remained supreme within their own domains in all but name. Though Torrhen Stark had given up the ancient crown of the Kings of Winter, his sons were less glad of the Targaryen yoke, and some among them entertained talk of rebelling, and of raising the Stark banner whether Lord Torrhen consented or not. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aenys I All this took place while the king guested at Riverrun, the seat of the Tullys. But by the time Aenys and Lord Tully moved to deal with this threat, they found Harrenhal empty, Gargon's loyal men put to the sword, and Harren the Red and his followers returned to banditry. More rebels soon appeared in the Vale and the Iron Islands, while a Dornishman naming himself the Vulture King gathered thousands of followers to stand against the Targaryens. Grand Maester Gawen wrote that the king was stunned by this news, for Aenys fancied himself beloved of the commons. And the king again acted indecisively: at first commanding that a host sail for the Vale to deal with the usurper Jonos Arryn, who had imprisoned his own brother Lord Ronnel, then suddenly recalling the order for fear that Harren the Red and his men might infiltrate King's Landing. The king even determined to call a Great Council to discuss how to deal with these matters. Fortunately for the realm, others acted more swiftly. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aenys I Lord Royce of Runestone gathered forces that swept away the rebels under Jonos Arryn, penning him and his followers in the Eyrie—although this led directly to the murder of the imprisoned Lord Ronnel, when Jonos sent his brother flying out the Moon Door to his death. Yet the Eyrie proved no safe haven when Prince Maegor came calling on the back of Balerion, the Black Dread—the dragon that he had always desired and could finally claim following his father's death. Jonos and his followers all died by the noose, at Maegor's hand. Aenys I Targaryen Reign 37 AC - 42 AC I-----------------------I ?========Torrhen Brandon Snow I I------------------------------------I I-------------------------I-------------------------------I wed arranged by 10ac. By Rhaenys Jonnos=? Son Son Daughter====Ronnel Arryn I -37Ac? In time of Aenys rule. I Unknown possible child==?==Rule given to Hubert Arryn I a cousin. (Did Hubert marry Ronnel’s missing child?) I I Rodrik ====Daella daughter of Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys Reign 48 AC - 103 AC Arryn? I Rodrik possibly 25 by 62 AC. I Wed 80ac. Aemma===========Viserys, Grandchild Arryn I of Jaehaerys by I Balon I Daemon Targaryen===== Rhaenyra I Targaryen. 97-130 (Ruling House Targaryen) So you can see, by making one simple assumption about Ronnel and his child with Lady Stark, you can see that it would lead to Rhaenyra Targaryen descended of House Stark. Who then married Daemon Targaryen of which the ruling House Targaryen comes from. Something else happens though in 92 Ac with the choosing of Baelon 3rd son of Jaehaerys over Rhaenys, child of Aemon the 2nd son of Jaehaerys. So Jaehaerys was ok with Baelon as an Heir but not Rhaenys, which would mean something must be off with her mother Jocelyn Baratheon. 92 AC Choosing of 92 AC: With the death of King Jaehaerys I's eldest son and heir, Prince Aemon, King Jaehaerys needs name a new heir, choosing between Aemon’s only child, Princess Rhaenys, and Jaehaerys's own second son, Prince Baelon. Jaehaerys eventually names Baelon.[24] So something happened by 92AC to effect the decision of Jaehaerys to pass over Rhaenys Targaryen, the Queen Who Never Was. Well first lets deviate for a sec and talk about Bael the Bard. Quote A Clash of Kings - Jon VI "That's all in where you're standing too," Ygritte said. "The Stark in Winterfell wanted Bael's head, but never could take him, and the taste o' failure galled him. One day in his bitterness he called Bael a craven who preyed only on the weak. When word o' that got back, Bael vowed to teach the lord a lesson. So he scaled the Wall, skipped down the kingsroad, and walked into Winterfell one winter's night with harp in hand, naming himself Sygerrik of Skagos. Sygerrik means 'deceiver' in the Old Tongue, that the First Men spoke, and the giants still speak." "North or south, singers always find a ready welcome, so Bael ate at Lord Stark's own table, and played for the lord in his high seat until half the night was gone. The old songs he played, and new ones he'd made himself, and he played and sang so well that when he was done, the lord offered to let him name his own reward. 'All I ask is a flower,' Bael answered, 'the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o' Winterfell.'" "Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o' the winter roses be plucked for the singer's payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished . . . and so had Lord Brandon's maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain." Jon had never heard this tale before. "Which Brandon was this supposed to be? Brandon the Builder lived in the Age of Heroes, thousands of years before Bael. There was Brandon the Burner and his father Brandon the Shipwright, but—" "This was Brandon the Daughterless," Ygritte said sharply. "Would you hear the tale, or no?" He scowled. "Go on." "Lord Brandon had no other children. At his behest, the black crows flew forth from their castles in the hundreds, but nowhere could they find any sign o' Baelor this maid. For most a year they searched, till the lord lost heart and took to his bed, and it seemed as though the line o' Starks was at its end. But one night as he lay waiting to die, Lord Brandon heard a child's cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast." "Bael had brought her back?" "No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says . . . though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what's certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he'd plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me." "It never happened," Jon said. She shrugged. "Might be it did, might be it didn't. It is a good song, though. My mother used to sing it to me. She was a woman too, Jon Snow. Like yours." She rubbed her throat where his dirk had cut her. "The song ends when they find the babe, but there is a darker end to the story. Thirty years later, when Bael was King-beyond-the-Wall and led the free folk south, it was young Lord Stark who met him at the Frozen Ford . . . and killed him, for Bael would not harm his own son when they met sword to sword." "So the son slew the father instead," said Jon. "Aye," she said, "but the gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing. When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael's head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. Her son did not long outlive her. One o' his lords peeled the skin off him and wore him for a cloak." "Your Bael was a liar," he told her, certain now. So we have both a Lord Stark and the Kings Road listed by Ygriite. “The North Remembers” As both Brandon and his grandson are given the title "Lord" instead of "King" this seems to indicate that the disappearance of Brandon's daughter took place after the Starks had given up their kingship during Aegon's Conquest.[3] Additionally, the Kingsroad is mentioned, implying it took place during or after the reign of Jaehaerys I Targaryen, during whose reign the Kingsroad was build.[4] So lets assumer Ygritte is right. This would mean that Bael first skipped down the Kings Road in the reign of Jaehaerys. As the kings road is already around. So Bael’s war would be 30 years later, possibly still in the Reign of Old Jaehaerys. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Viserys I That measure was not stringent enough, however, and as 128 ended and 129 began, Viserys was growing increasingly ill. On the third day of the third moon of 129 AC, while entertaining Jaehaerys and Jaehaera from his bed with a tale of their great-great-grandsire and his queen battling giants, mammoths, and wildlings beyond the Wall, the king grew tired. Why was Jaehaerys I and Alysanne fighting Giants, Mammoths, and Wildlings north of the Wall? With Alysanne giving the Night’s Watch the New Gift, and closing the Night’s Fort? Jaehaerys and Jaehaera I Aegon III Dad I Viserys I Grand sire I Baelon Targaryen Great Grand sire I Jaehaerys I the Great Great Grandsire in the story. So Jaehaerys and Alysanne battling giants and mammoths at the wall . 92 AC Choosing of 92 AC: With the death of King Jaehaerys I's eldest son and heir, Prince Aemon, King Jaehaerys needs name a new heir, choosing between Aemon’s only child, Princess Rhaenys, and Jaehaerys's own second son, Prince Baelon. Jaehaerys eventually names Baelon.[24] So it would appear that Jaehaerys who was alive at the time of Bael the Bard, king beyond the wall, and fought at the wall possibly against him. Which if the choosing is a hint to anything, means the war was 30 years before that in 62AC. This is not the only thing calling attention to this time either, as Bloodraven seems to be pointing to that time as well. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V Bloodraven would rise to become Lord Commander of the Night's Watch in 239 AC, serving until his disappearance during a ranging beyond the Wall in 252 AC. 298th- Jon Snow 299-300ac 1yr 297th- Jeor Mormont 288-299ac 11 yrs 996th- Qorgyle 252-288ac 36 yrs (Person of interest under the time of Roberts Rebellion and service of Mance.) 995th- Bloodraven 239-252ac 13 years...... wait a min. 994th- Sleepy Jack 226-239ac became known as from Jack Musgood after Raymund Redbeard King beyond the Wall snuck south So Bloodraven served for 13 years as Lord Commander. Well, Was he the 13th Lord Commander? Quote A Dance with Dragons - Jon II Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night's King … we say that you're the nine-hundred-and-ninety-eighth LordCommander of the Night's Watch, 298th- Jon Snow 299-300ac 1yr 297th- Jeor Mormont 288-299ac 11 yrs 996th- Qorgyle 252-288ac 36 yrs (Person of interest under the time of Roberts Rebellion and service of Mance.) 995th- Bloodraven 239-252ac 13 years...... wait a min. 994th- Sleepy Jack 226-239ac became known as from Jack Musgood after Raymund Redbeard King beyond the Wall snuck south What is 9 + 9 - 5? 13 I find it interesting that Bran mentions this story too just before passing beyond the Black Gate and possibly meeting the Night's King. The Last Greenseerer. Another interesting thing. 1. Aegon I 2 Aenys I 3 Maegor I 4 Jaehaerys I & Alysanne 1 who closed Night fort and changed watch 1. Aegon 5 Viserys I 2 2. Maegor I, Aenys I 6 Aegon II 3 3 Jaehaerys I 7 Aegon III 4 4. Generation skipped over 8 Daeron I 5 4 Viserys I 9 Baelor I 6 6 Aegon II 10 Viserys II 7 7 Viserys II, Aegon III 11 Aegon IV 8 8 Aegon IV Baelor I Daeron I 12 Daeron II 9 9 Daeron II 13 Aerys I 10 10 Aerys I, Maekar I 14 Maekar I 11 11 Aegon V 15 Aegon V 12 12 Jaeharerys 16 Jaehaerys II 13 The 2nd who wed his kids on word of woods witch 13. Aerys II 17 Aerys II So it would appear that Bloodraven is the 13th generation Lord Commander since Aegon and Jaehaerys’ time depending on how you look at it. With it point to Aegon and Jaehaerys. Ending with Jaehaerys II who married Aerys II to his sister on the word of a woods witch. A woods witch in the time that Bloodraven was on the wall. Could she be the child of Leaf? So there is a possible baby born in 62 Ac that led to a war in 92Ac with Bael the Bard at the wall. Well, what’s Baels story say? Brandon the Daughterless? I Daughter======Bael the Bard Union in time of Jaehearys I I Child born in 62 Ac. With war and council 30 years later. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Jaehaerys I For forty-six years, the Old King and Good Queen Alysanne were wed, and for the most part it was a happy marriage, with children and grandchildren aplenty. Two estrangements are recorded, but they did not last more than a year or two before the pair resumed their customary friendship. The Second Quarrel, however, is of note, as it was due to Jaehaerys's decision in 92 AC to pass over his granddaughter Rhaenys—the daughter of his deceased eldest son and heir, Prince Aemon—in favor of bestowing Dragonstone and the place of heir apparent on his next eldest son, Baelon the Brave. Alysanne saw no reason why a man should be favored over a woman...and if Jaehaerys thought women of less use, then he would have no need of her. They reconciled in time, but the Old King outlived his beloved queen, and in his last years it was said that the grief of their parting hung over his court like a pall. So the 2nd Quarrel was also in 92 Ac which means that their 1st Quarrel was some years before that. Queen’s Crown----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote All About Birth Crowning - Parents Magazine "Once you can see the head and it doesn't slip back in, that's crowning," Quote A Storm of Swords - Jon V Across the lake, the tower was black again, a dim shape dimly seen. "A queen lived there?" asked Ygritte. "A queen stayed there for a night." Old Nan had told him the story, but Maester Luwin had confirmed most of it. "Alysanne, the wife of King Jaehaerys the Conciliator. He's called the Old King because he reigned so long, but he was young when he first came to the Iron Throne. In those days, it was his wont to travel all over the realm. When he came to Winterfell, he brought his queen, six dragons, and half his court. The king had matters to discuss with his Warden of the North, and Alysanne grew bored, so she mounted her dragon Silverwing and flew north to see the Wall. This village was one of the places where she stopped. Afterward the smallfolk painted the top of their holdfast to look like the golden crown she'd worn when she spent the night among them." "I have never seen a dragon." Could Bael have actually slept with Alysanne??? Quote A Feast for Crows - Samwell I There were dragons here two hundred years ago, Sam found himself thinking, as he watched the cage making a slow descent. They would just have flown to the top of the Wall. Queen Alysanne had visited Castle Black on her dragon, and Jaehaerys, her king, had come after her on his own. Could Silverwing have left an egg behind? Came after her for war with the King beyond the Wall? Quote A Storm of Swords - Bran IV "This seems an old place," Jojen said as they walked down a gallery where the sunlight fell in dusty shafts through empty windows. "Twice as old as Castle Black," Bran said, remembering. "It was the first castle on the Wall, and the largest." But it had also been the first abandoned, all the way back in the time of the Old King. Even then it had been three-quarters empty and too costly to maintain. Good Queen Alysanne had suggested that the Watch replace it with a smaller, newer castle at a spot only seven miles east, where the Wall curved along the shore of a beautiful green lake. Deep Lake had been paid for by the queen's jewels and built by the men the Old King had sent north, and the black brothers had abandoned the Nightfort to the rats. The Frozen Ford was the site in the north where, according to song, House Stark met the free folk in battle when they went south of the Wall. Bael the Bard, the King-beyond-the-Wall, met his son, the young Lord Stark, at the Frozen Ford and died there rather than kill his son. Frozen Ford = Deep Lake? Quote A Storm of Swords - Jon V "Queen Alysanne, you say?" "Good Queen Alysanne, they called her later. One of the castles on the Wall was named for her as well. Queensgate. Before her visit they called it Snowgate." Quote A Dance with Dragons - Reek III . Such was my due. The maesters will tell you that King Jaehaerys abolished the lord's right to the first night to appease his shrewish queen, but where the old gods rule, old customs linger. The Umbers keep the first night too, deny it as they may. Certain of the mountain clans as well, and on Skagos … well, only heart trees ever see half of what they do on Skago With Queen Alysanne and Jaehaerys also giving the New Gift to the Watch. So again, it would appear that Bael possibly at kids early in Jaehaerys’ reign in 62 Ac with war 30 years later in 92 Ac. So who was born in or around 62 Ac? Well only 3 people. Quote • Jocelyn Baratheon- Wife of Ameon 2nd son of Jaehaerys and mother of Rhaenys passed over in 92 AC who was born 52/61-?AC • Aemon Targaryen-2nd son and 3rd child of Jaehaerys and Alysanne and father of Rhaenys passed over in 92 AC. Born 52/61-92Ac • Gael the Winter Child- 13th child of Jaehaerys and Alysanne supposedly. Born in 62/83-99AC and drowned in 99Ac at age 16 or 37. Left with child after visited by traveling Singer/ Bard. Jocelyn Baratheon Birth calculations. Spoiler Birth Jocelyn was born at least one year after her brother Boremund. Boremund was born in 51 AC or later (see Boremund Baratheon). That means that Jocelyn was born at least one year later, so in 52 AC or later. Jocelyn's firstborn child was born in 74 AC (see Rhaenys Targaryen (daughter of Aemon)). Jocelyn would have been at least 13 years old when Rhaenys was born, meaning that Jocelyn was born no later than 61 AC. No further specifications can be given. Jocelyn was thus born in or between 52 AC and 61 AC. Note: Jocelyn's mother was born in 7 AC according to a semi-canon source.[105] As menopause generally occurs around the age of ~50, Jocelyn cannot have been born any later than ~57 AC. However, since there is no set age at which menopause occurs, it cannot be used to state a firm maximum. Aemon Targaryen (son of Jaehaerys I) Birth King Jaehaerys I and Queen Alysanne got married in 50 AC.[10] Their first child, Aegon,[21] could thus have been born the earliest in 50 AC. Aemon had his first child born in 74 AC.[3] He would have been at least 13 years old upon Rhaenys's birth, and thus, he was born no later than 61 AC. As Aemon is the third born child of Jaehaerys and Alysanne,[21] he could not have been born before 52 AC. Aemon was thus born in or between 52 AC and 61 AC. No further specifications can be given. Aemon was thus born between 52 AC and 61 AC. Gael Targaryen Birth Gael was the thirteenth child of Jaehaerys and Alysanne.[45] It is known that Gael lived until adulthood, [46] which is 16 in Westeros. As Gael is stated to have died in 99 AC,[46] this means that Gael was at least 16 years old in 99 AC, placing her birth no later than 83 AC. As Gael was the thirteenth child, she could have been born in the thirteenth year of the marriage of Alysanne and Jaehaerys the earliest, which would be 62 AC. No further specifications can be given. Gael was thus born in or between 62 AC and 83 AC. So two possibilities that are children of Alysanne and one who married one of her children. Now Aemon isn’t likely a child of Bael’s as Jaehaerys seemed to trust Aemon being an heir, but not Aemon’s daughter by Jocelyn Baratheon, who was born around the same time. The other possible child is Gael the Winter Child. Who was left with a baby, but we’ll get back to her. Aegon I vs Torrhen Stark and Brandon Snow, and Harren Black at God’s Eye while his brother Lord Commander at the Wall supposedly stays out. I-----------------------I ?========Torrhen Brandon Snow I I------------------------------------I I-------------------------I-------------------------------I wed arranged by 10ac. By Rhaenys Jonnos=? Son Son Daughter====Ronnel Arryn Daughterless I -37Ac? In time of Aenys rule. I Unknown possible child Rule given to Hubert Arryn Daughter====Bael Bard =?=Alysanne I a cousin. I I I I I Lord Stark & Kings Road/ Jaehaerys Rodrik ======Daella daughter of Jaehaerys. Arryn? I Rodrik possibly 25 by 62 AC. I------------------I------------------------I Aemma===========Viserys, Grandchild Jocelyn? Son Gael I Of Jaehaerys by ? Balon I Daemon Targaryen===== Rhaenyra I Targaryen. 97-130 (Ruling House Targaryen) This tree is what is said, with those minor assumptions. And also guessing that Brandon the Daughterless was a son of Torrhen whose daughter slept with Bael? Or was it just Alysanne? Or could it have been both? Well we know that Jocelyns marries Aemon who then have Rhaenys who is passed up in the succession. Now maybe it’s just because of Jocelyns supposed mother who is a Velaryon. Though this wouldn’t make sense, as what have House Velaryon done to warrant this kind of treatment? Though the Velaryon’s did make an interesting pact with the Merling King to receive their driftwood throne. Which sea makes me think of water and ice and others while the Merling King makes me think of the Grey King and more water ice imagery? So worth pointing out, cause which side is House Stark on also? Ice. Either way, we have two interesting births at the right time and an interesting succession issues that leads to the 2nd Quarrel of Jaehaerys and Alysanne. The children of Rhaenys though would go on to marry Rhaenyra Targaryen who we talked about at top already possibly having Stark Blood in her, and Daemon Targaryen the Rogue Prince. With the children of these two unions being on Team Black in the Dance of Dragons. So we can possibly see the Ice sides joining together. What’s more, is that Rhaenyra and Daemon would later go on to marry each other and have kids that would go on to rule House Targaryen. So we’ve covered Rhaenyra, and now Rhaenys through one of Bael’s possible children, Jocelyn Baratheon. So now let’s look at Gael the Winter Child and see where her missing child might be. Quote Gael Targaryen Birth Gael was the thirteenth child of Jaehaerys and Alysanne.[45] It is known that Gael lived until adulthood, [46] which is 16 in Westeros. As Gael is stated to have died in 99 AC,[46] this means that Gael was at least 16 years old in 99 AC, placing her birth no later than 83 AC. Quote • Gael the Winter Child- 13th child of Jaehaerys and Alysanne supposedly. Born in 62/83-99AC and drowned in 99Ac at age 16 or 37. Left with child after visited by traveling Singer/ Bard. So we know that she possibly had a kid and drowned at either 16 or 37. Since she would need to be at least 13 to have a child, the child should have been born between 75Ac and 99 Ac. Quote Year 77 After the Conquest Births · Prince Viserys Targaryen, son of Prince Baelon and Princess Alyssa Targaryen. Year 81 After the Conquest Births · Prince Daemon Targaryen.[20] Year 82 After the Conquest Births · Criston Cole.[21] · Lady Aemma Arryn to Lord Rodrik Arryn and Princess Daella Targaryen.[16] Year 93 After the Conquest Births · Laena Velaryon.[23] Year 94 After the Conquest Births · Laenor Velaryon Year 97 After the Conquest Births · Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen, daughter of Prince Viserys Targaryen and Aemma Arryn So we have Viserys who was safe in the succession though he chose Rhaenyra over Aegon II causing the Dance of Dragons. So not likely him. We have Laena and Laenor, both children of Rhaenys the Queen who never was. So they’re already openly gone against for being of Rhaenys, so not likely these two. So that leaves us Quote Criston Cole 82Ac Daemon Targaryen 81Ac Rhaenyra Targaryen 97Ac Now we already have Rhaenyra possibly coming from House Stark possibly through Lady Stark and Jonnel Arryn, if they’re kid wed Hubert Arryn and had kids. So assuming it’s not her, that would only leave two options Criston Cole who has no known parents given. Or Daemon Targaryen, The Rogue Prince that cut 13 into the Weirwood at Harrenhal and wed Rhaenyra with their children taking and ruling the Iron Throne and House Targaryen losing dragons. Quote Early reign of Viserys I Ser Criston Cole twice defeated Daemon in the tourney for King Viserys I's accession in 104 AC. Ser Criston Cole the King Maker. So both men played important roles in the Dance but on opposing sides. So Daemon’s allegiance to Rhaenyra and the views of Court against him make me tend to question him, though he does have listed parents. Though baby swapping is not new to ASOIAF Aegon I vs Torrhen Stark and Brandon Snow, and Harren Black at God’s Eye while his brother Lord Commander at the Wall supposedly stays out. I-----------------------I ?========Torrhen Brandon Snow I I------------------------------------I I-------------------------I-------------------------------I wed arranged by 10ac. By Rhaenys Jonnos=? Son Son Daughter====Ronnel Arryn Daughterless I -37Ac? In time of Aenys rule. I Unknown possible child Rule given to Hubert Arryn Daughter====Bael Bard =?=Alysanne I a cousin. I I I I I Lord Stark & Kings Road/ Jaehaerys Rodrik ======Daella daughter of Jaehaerys. Arryn? I Rodrik possibly 25 by 62 AC. I------------------I------------------------I Aemma===========Viserys, Grandchild Jocelyn? Son Gael I Of Jaehaerys by ? Balon I Daemon Targaryen===== Rhaenyra I Targaryen. 97-130 (Ruling House Targaryen) What do you think? What was going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: So you can see, by making one simple assumption about Ronnel and his child with Lady Stark, you can see that it would lead to Rhaenyra Targaryen descended of House Stark. Hubert was married to a Royce. 2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: So Jaehaerys was ok with Baelon as an Heir but not Rhaenys, which would mean something must be off with her mother Jocelyn Baratheon. No, it just means, that Jaehaerys did not like the idea of a female heir. 2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: 996th- Qorgyle 252-288ac 36 yrs (Person of interest under the time of Roberts Rebellion and service of Mance.) We have no idea, if Qorgyle was the direct successor of Bloodraven. We even do not know if BR was the direct successor of Sleepy Jack. 2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: What do you think? What was going on? Nothing of the stuff you are making up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 ASOS says Jaehaerys and Alysanne visited the Wall when he was young, when he first came to the Iron Thone. This is just another unsupported crackpot that quotes a bunch of quotes that offer no support or hint for what you are claiming. You might want to try actually reading the books GRRM wrote some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said: The Royce could have been descended of that child. That's why i post this to seek help resolving the issues to make it work. 2 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said: You two on the other hand offer nothing other than negative biased views that are very closed off and limited. And while i appreciate the time and input, i think we know that we never see eye to eye so what's the point in evening rebuking much of what you say. Specially when that's your only point and not to help resolve any errors or missing pieces. Some come to this forum for more than just senseless debating with people. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: The Royce could have been descended of that child. That's why i post this to seek help resolving the issues to make it work. Let us assume for a moment such a child existed. Hubert had six childern by 37 AC. Which means his wife started bearing these children around 30 AC the latest. So she would have to be 13 years in 30 AC by minimum, born no later than 17 AC. You see, it just works if you calculate by the edge of possibility three times. Oh, and the text indicates nothing like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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