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Did the Tyrells violate guest right?


Varysblackfyre321

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7 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Sure. Walder can't turn around and claim that Roose killed Robb and he did nothing wrong. The host is responsible for his guests safety. We see another example in the Dance of the Dragons when Lord Baratheon refused to allow Aemond attack Lucerys under his walls. 

Hmm... I do remember that but I can't recall whether if Boorros specifically tied it to guest rights. It could have been just for diplomatic reasons since I remember him staying out of the fights for quite sometime after this.

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3 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

It's been argued, debunked, argued more, and then denied by Theon in text. The Freys said that Robb attacked Wendel Manderly. It doesn't mean it's true. We know that Theon doesn't consider it kinslaying and we know they are alive.

Theon could yet be a kinslayer; There was a theory that those miller's sons could be Theon's and since Theon himself acknowledges paying visits to the miller's wife, one of the boys could very well be his, making him a Kinslayer.

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7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Theon could yet be a kinslayer; There was a theory that those miller's sons could be Theon's and since Theon himself acknowledges paying visits to the miller's wife, one of the boys could very well be his, making him a Kinslayer.

I'm sure that's the big plot twist that is keeping GRRM up at night and preventing him from finisihing WoW

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7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Theon could yet be a kinslayer; There was a theory that those miller's sons could be Theon's and since Theon himself acknowledges paying visits to the miller's wife, one of the boys could very well be his, making him a Kinslayer.

Well this goes to a whole bunch of complicated assumptions.  First off, re: kinslaying, it seems to be assumed in Westeros that fosterage commits one to an actual family bond (and Theon is very clearly a ward, and not a hostage).  So intent seems to matter.

Which goes back to the guest right question.  I'd argue intent is important in determining who is breaking guest right.  The whole purpose of the sanctity of the concept is that people can feel safe to stay with neighbors without being murdered in their sleep, which prevents the entire society from descending into Hobbesian anarchy.  So I wonder if Mance and the spearwives are technically considered "guests," since they are there as spies and enemies?  And also, since they're also employees of the Boltons as opposed to guests, which further complicates it.

The examples we have of outright breaking of guestright are ones in which the guest or host is invited in for shelter and hospitality and reneges on their end of the deal (Craster, Red Wedding).  There is obviously some dividing line, because not everyone under a roof is accorded guest right.  Highborn nobles who are "hostages" are obviously subject to violent punishment if their relatives violate the terms of the hostage agreement - like Theon.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/16/2018 at 2:41 AM, The Wolves said:

I doubt Mance violated guest rights, the Wildlings are just as traditional and respectful of the old gods as any Northernmen, I have no doubt that they made sure that they didn’t violate guest rights. 

There is no doubt that Mance Rayder and his wildling women violated guest rights.  They committed murder after partaking of Roose Bonton's food.

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11 minutes ago, The Transporter said:

There is no doubt that Mance Rayder and his wildling women violated guest rights.  They committed murder after partaking of Roose Bonton's food.

Are we sure they ate the bolton's food? They could have eaten manderley's food so they wouldn't be guests. 

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2 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said:

Are we sure they ate the bolton's food? They could have eaten manderley's food so they wouldn't be guests. 

Unless they brought in a truckload of their own food from the wall, yes.  There is no way for all of the food that they ate, every morsel, came from Manderly. 

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