Sensenmenn Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I thought it was confirmed that Robert was littlefingers? In the Sansa chapter where littlefinger beds lysa, lysa says that she whants littlefinger to give her another child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Sensenmenn said: I thought it was confirmed that Robert was littlefingers? In the Sansa chapter where littlefinger beds lysa, lysa says that she whants littlefinger to give her another child. He may have done so when he was at Riverrun. Lysa takes advantage of him while he's drunk and then we have Catelyn's POV with a dying Hoster which suggests that Lysa was forced to take moon tea before she was married off to Jon Arryn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 10 hours ago, LynnS said: He may have done so when he was at Riverrun. Lysa takes advantage of him while he's drunk and then we have Catelyn's POV with a dying Hoster which suggests that Lysa was forced to take moon tea before she was married off to Jon Arryn. And Robert is her child. So, even if Jon is the boy’s father, a new child by Peter would still be another child for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haus Berlin Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 See dear @LiveFirstDieLater, your quote is a tough one for those who like the idea that Littlefinger had a natural child with Lysa and prefers an alleged bastard over it. But similar to us, Littlefinger himself likes one special idea and wants it to become true by talking about it all over KL: the idea that he took Catelyn’s maidenhead. He had too much wine back then, but now he chooses to believe Lysa doesn’t remember things right in her cups. Only human to dismiss unliked aspects. One can ask: GRRM already did this with Sweetrobin’s namesake Robert, so what would even be the point of doing it again? For the fun that a second time comes unexpected for those who were looking for simple surprises, but urges those on who like to go back and see how the new pattern affects the story, I would think. That is why I can’t have enough secret Targaryens around (go, Lannister twins!) or undead characters ect. For an artpiece variation is as crucial as invention, it shows skilled handicraft and rewards those who keep attention. So yes, I would like to have that bastard-idea around a lot more until the series’ end. Oh, and best @Lord Varys: GRRM describes his writing method as exploring while writing. It can very well be that even after ASOS he himself explored unused potential of an older idea and introduced Harry the Heir in AFFC to resume with it in an altered version. It’s Harry whose appearance shows us how Arryns are supposed to look like. Sweetrobin does not have the Arryn look nor the Tully look. (Pardon for poor English. I enjoy reading you, but sadly writing is another matter.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Haus Berlin said: Oh, and best @Lord Varys: GRRM describes his writing method as exploring while writing. It can very well be that even after ASOS he himself explored unused potential of an older idea and introduced Harry the Heir in AFFC to resume with it in an altered version. It’s Harry whose appearance shows us how Arryns are supposed to look like. Sweetrobin does not have the Arryn look nor the Tully look. That is certainly not impossible. My point wasn't that George couldn't retcon it that way - he certainly can - just that he didn't do anything with that story idea up to this point. And one should assume he would do something with it, now that Littlefinger and Robert are united, and Littlefinger is killing the boy. Lord Robert doesn't have the features and colors of the Arryns, apparently (or rather those of Jon Arryn) but he actually has Lysa's eyes and hair, not Littlefinger's gray-green eyes. Sansa herself compares Robert's hair to Lysa's at one point, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 What color are Sweetrobin's eyes... aside from runny and red? I can't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said: What color are Sweetrobin's eyes... aside from runny and red? I can't remember. I'm pretty sure his actual eye color has not yet been revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 13 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: I'm pretty sure his actual eye color has not yet been revealed. Thanks. That’s what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: Thanks. That’s what I thought. I found auburn for his hair, but nothing for an eye color. Let it be gray-green, let it be gray-green, let it be gray-green! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dacey Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: Thanks. That’s what I thought. I found auburn for his hair, but nothing for an eye color. Isn't his hair brown? I couldn't find the quote. Edited to add: found it! AGOT, Catelyn V Lysa seated herself near the fire and said, "Come to Mother, my sweet one." She straightened his bedclothes and fussed with his fine brown hair. "Isn't he beautiful? And strong too, don't you believe the things you hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Lady Dacey said: Isn't his hair brown? I couldn't find the quote. Edited to add: found it! AGOT, Catelyn V Lysa seated herself near the fire and said, "Come to Mother, my sweet one." She straightened his bedclothes and fussed with his fine brown hair. "Isn't he beautiful? And strong too, don't you believe the things you hear. Yes. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cridefea Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Genetic or not, if Robert is LF's son and Martin wants us to know it, then there are some clues. Good catch @Lost Melnibonean with the seed. Iirc there are some young Petyr's descriptions, right? He wasn't a not very healthy kid. On 16/1/2018 at 7:59 PM, Lady Dacey said: There's that too! I believe it's pretty clear LF wasn't particularly interested in having sex with Lysa. If they did have sex before they married it's not because he was indulging in an illicit affair because he wanted to fuck Lysa, it's because the affair was necessary for his game. So the question is not "why would he risk being caught to have sex with her?" but rather "how having sex with her could benefit him?". Indeed. LF's plan is so interesting to discuss.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Amok's portrait of Robert Arryn depicts him with pale blue eyes, for what that's worth. George gave him usually pretty precise descriptions. If he wanted him to have the same eye-color as Littlefinger it would have happened. And again - while there is a good chance that Littlefinger and Lysa and an affair while he was Master of Coin, we simply don't know yet whether he was even in KL roughly seven years prior to AGoT when Robert was conceived. And even if he was - Lysa pretty much thinks Robert is Jon's, not to mention that she and the old man shared the bed throughout their entire marriage, never mind Littlefinger. If Lysa fucked both Petyr and Jon the month Robert was conceived, it would be pretty much impossible to figure out who the father was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: Amok's portrait of Robert Arryn depicts him with pale blue eyes, for what that's worth. George gave him usually pretty precise descriptions. If he wanted him to have the same eye-color as Littlefinger it would have happened. And again - while there is a good chance that Littlefinger and Lysa and an affair while he was Master of Coin, we simply don't know yet whether he was even in KL roughly seven years prior to AGoT when Robert was conceived. And even if he was - Lysa pretty much thinks Robert is Jon's, not to mention that she and the old man shared the bed throughout their entire marriage, never mind Littlefinger. If Lysa fucked both Petyr and Jon the month Robert was conceived, it would be pretty much impossible to figure out who the father was. Killjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunland Lord Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Robert is son of Tywin. Why else the plans to be fostered there? Why Lysa ran to the Eyrie? She was afraid. Afraid that Tywin may acknowledge the boy as his son once Sweetrobin arrives at the Rock. Jon Arryn asked Stannis to foster the boy, yes. But King Robert knew the truth. Tywin told him. That's why King Robert wants to send Robert Arryn at the Rock. Some part of the debt the crown owed to the Lannisters would be forgotten and forgiven. A nice exchange, isn't it? A son for a forgiven debt. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Does the timeline add up, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 59 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: Does the timeline add up, though? I think so... How long had Petyr been in King's Landing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue-Eyed Wolf Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I think so... How long had Petyr been in King's Landing? So Robert is born sometime in 292. It's possible, because we have no one saying how long he stayed in Gulltown, just when he started. Tyrion says in ACOK: Quote Ten years ago, Jon Arryn had given him a minor sinecure in customs, where Lord Petyr had soon distinguished himself by bringing in three times as much as any of the king's other collectors. So that puts his time in Gulltown about 289. He's there long enough to noticeably increase revenues, but "soon" suggests this happens rather quickly. This motivates Jon to bring LF to KL. George can't math too well, so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt LF really took less than 2 years to increase revenues "threefold" (or "tenfold" by Lysa's telling). As long as he's there by 291 or early 292, it can still work for him to be the father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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