AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Could Rhaegar have maybe been in love with Arthur Dayne like Loras and Renly were. This is a hypothetical look at the mirror comparison potentially between Rhaegar to Renly and Arthur to Loras. Think about it. Arthur Dayne is great with his swords just like Loras Tyrell When asked if Rhaegar loved Elia, Barristan cannot say yes. GRRM has stated the Elia and Rhaegar's marriage was complicated We know Rhaegar crowns Lyanna , but may not have stolen her as. we have no eye witness or their account or any knowledge as to why Rhaegar was suspected other than he was seen at Harrenhal giving her a rose. Rhaegar had never talked to Lyanna that we know of The Knight of the Laughing tree is repeatedly referred to as a male by Meera who also states that he spoke in a booming voice. Something we know from Eddard's description of Robert is required of a good leader, especially in the middle of battle. Rhaegar loved harp and books and only became a swords man after reading a prophecy he thought was about him. and further He is never described as a great warrior, not even by Barristan who states that he loved music and books more than killing In many ways, Rhaegar is Renly to people who don't know Renly is gay. So when looking at the known Tourneys and over lapping them and what is known about each, i began to see over laps. For Phone viewers Spoiler Uthor Hightower-Steals the Maid Maris the Maid Argoth Stoneskin Crowns the maid with rose? vs ________ first Tourney of Westeros ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Baelish Steals Maid Sansa the Maid infatuated with Loras engaged to Joffery Loras Tyrell Gives Maid Rose Gay not actually into her Cheats to win Becomes a Kings Guard Knight and Lord Commander. vs The Mountain is made a K.G In Hands Tourney ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________?? Steals the Maid Lyanna the maid Infatuated with Rhaegar? Engaged to Robert Rhaegar Targaryen .Crowns the maid vs Barristan wants Ashara Is a Kings Guard Knight and Lord Commander Tourney of Harrenhal --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tregar Ormollen Steals maid Lynesse Hightower Maid Infatuated with Tregar married to Jorah Jorah Mormont Crowns Maid Wants Lynesse vs Jamie in last Tilt Jamie loves Cersei Is a Kings Guard Knight Tourney of Lannisport ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________? Steals maid Naerys Targaryen not a Maid Infatuated with? Married to Aegon IV Aemon the Dragon Knight Kings Guard Knight Said to crown Naerys instead of his mistress. Not into Naerys? vs ______? Loves? Tourney of Kings Landing? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Daemon Targ/ Laenar Velaryon Both have kids with Rhaenyra Steals the Maid Rhaenyra Maid at time Ser Criston Cole Become K.G. and L.C Crowns the Maid but still loses to Lymond vs Lymond Mallister Tourney of MaidenPool Uthor Hightower==== Maris the Maid vs Argoth Stoneskin vs ________ in first Tourney of Westeros Steals the Maid Crowns the maid with rose? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Baelish ======Sansa the Maid vs Loras Tyrell vs The Mountain In Hands Tourney Steals Maid infatuated with Loras Gives Maid Rose is made a K.G. engaged to Joffery Gay not actually into her Cheats to win Becomes a Kings Guard Knight and Lord Commander. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________?? ========Lyanna the maid vs Rhaegar Targaryen vs Barristan Tourney of Harrenhal Steals the Maid Infatuated with Rhaegar? Crowns the maid wants Ashara Engaged to Robert. Is a Kings Guard Knight and Lord Commander ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tregar Ormollen =======Lynesse Hightower Maid vs Jorah Mormont vs Jamie in last Tilt Tourney of Steals maid Infatuated with Tregar Crowns Maid Jamie loves Cersei Lannisport married to Jorah Wants Lynesse Is a Kings Guard Knight ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________? ====Naerys Targaryen not a Maid vs Aemon the Dragon Knight vs ______? Tourney of Kings Infatuated with? Kings Guard Knight Loves? Landing? Married to Aegon IV Said to crown Naerys instead of his mistress. Not into Naerys? __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Daemon Targ/ Laenar Velaryon ======Rhaenyra vs Ser Criston Cole vs Lymond Mallister Tourney of Both have kids with Rhaenyra Maid at time Become K.G. and L.C MaidenPool Steals the Maid Crowns the Maid but still loses to Lymond So something doesn't add up when you compare. the person doing the stealing may not be competing in the Tourney and is never the person who does the crowning or wins the Tourney. Now i personally think Rhaegar is Ice and not fire do to a thread i did about Rhaenyra Targaryen and Daemon Targaryen possibly having the Blood of the Starks in them. But as that is debated, i kept him fire here. So if he is fire here, then it breaks the cycle. It also means that the person doing the stealing would be Ice. Also, Aemon i think is Ice too as he descends from Rhaenyra and Daemon. This is why i think they lost their dragons, so kind of tied to it all for me. Is there any other parallels you can find or think of? Who could possibly have been the person to steal Lyanna - (Books aren't done people and that name less thing does not exist here, so think freely and stop thinking of that loose adaptation.) Can any one think of anything else to do with Sansa, Loras and Little Finger that may be telling us more? Or else where in the story? And Blasphemy but, who other than Rhaegar Targaryen could have stolen Lyanna Stark? lets just be hypothetical here based on the above evidence. Quote Disguised as a mystery knight, Prince Aemon once won a tourney after his brother Aegon had forbidden him to take part, because Aegon wanted to crown his mistress of that time as the queen of love and beauty. Disguised as the Knight of Tears, Aemon won the tournament and named Naerys Targaryen in place of the mistress Quote He won a melee at the tourney at Maidenpool to celebrate the ascension of Viserys I Targaryen, drawing the attention of the royal court by knocking Dark Sisterfrom the hands of Prince Daemon Targaryen with his morningstar. He gave the victor's laurel to the seven-year-old Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen, whose favor he wore while unhorsing Daemon in the joust, as well as the famed Cargyll twins of the Kingsguard, before being unhorsed by Lord Lymond Mallister. Kind of an odd out there question but based on his complicated marriage to Elia, could Rhaegar have been gay? A complicated warrior who loved the harp? Maybe no one knew, and when he crowned Lyanna it tipped some one else's hand? Rhaegar and Ser Arthur Dayne? Totally out there question but it just randomly came to mind looking at this all and just trying to come up with some answer to why Rhaegar would crown Lyanna but maybe not actually be into her. Then she got kidnapped by some one else and Rhaegar was just blamed for it? I do find it interesting that we never have an account of Rhaegar addressing having had stolen Lyanna Stark. Even upon meeting Robert in Battle. Maybe Robert wasn't much for words? Totally just throwing stuff out there but let me know. Throw something out there your self if you think there is something else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OH1yEnENG0 Edit - Just to be clear, these "Hobbies" are merely brought up as parallels to Loras and Renly. Nothing to do with the "hobbies them selves being a gay or straight thing". Rather think of Rhaegar as a mirror to Renly and Arthur as a mirror to Loras. Rhaegar would be the prince who fights cause he must and not because he's good at it or enjoys it, but rather enjoys art and music. Where as Loras is possibly like Arthur who are both kings guard knight's who are superb swords men. Most every other mirror for them works, so lets not be afraid to apply their love life too. (WARNING- If you chose to ignore this paragraph and attack me with accusations of which i've already covered under this paragraph. I will just block you as an assumption of malicious intent and clear disregard for my statements other wise.) We can debate this with out going there. One again, please and thank you and i hope all understand as this is offensive to me and may be to others if pursued and contorted into such. Respect and love to every one on this one. I hate to even have to put this here to curb it before it gets out of hand. Edit again cause some can't read or chose not to. - I am a straight artist, musician, thespian, writer, fighter, sports fan, and more. Dont go there with me and dont drag this post down to that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 I know this seriously sounds crazy but think about what we know of Renly and Loras. Of Loras giving a rose to a smitten Sansa who doesn't realize that he is gay. Or Brienne who may not have realized Renly was gay at first. One is a prince, the other in the Kings Guard. The parallels are actually quite striking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Tyrell Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: When asked if Rhaegar loved Elia, Barristan cannot say yes But he does say he loved Lyanna. Most of your evidence is very weak - just because Arthur Dayne was a great knight like Loras Tyrell doesn’t mean he’s gay (just look at Jaime), just as Rhaegar not being very martial doesn’t mean he’s gay, (just look at Sam). I really don’t think Rhaegar was gay, and I don’t see how it would contribute to his story. There’s a possibility he was gay and wanted a third heir by Lyanna, believing they were ice and fire, but I think it works far better as a love story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just now, Jaehaerys Tyrell said: But he does say he loved Lyanna. Most of your evidence is very weak - just because Arthur Dayne was a great knight like Loras Tyrell doesn’t mean he’s gay (just look at Jaime), just as Rhaegar not being very martial doesn’t mean he’s gay, (just look at Sam). I really don’t think Rhaegar was gay, and I don’t see how it would contribute to his story. There’s a possibility he was gay and wanted a third heir by Lyanna, believing they were ice and fire, but I think it works far better as a love story. Can you find me that quote? That would be really great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said: But he does say he loved Lyanna. Most of your evidence is very weak - just because Arthur Dayne was a great knight like Loras Tyrell doesn’t mean he’s gay (just look at Jaime), just as Rhaegar not being very martial doesn’t mean he’s gay, (just look at Sam). I really don’t think Rhaegar was gay, and I don’t see how it would contribute to his story. There’s a possibility he was gay and wanted a third heir by Lyanna, believing they were ice and fire, but I think it works far better as a love story. I get what your saying, but my point is that we actually have zero hard evidence for any of this. And my evidence is based off a lot of comparisons. You may want to check out the Mance thread that's been up, plus the Rhyming Tourney's one to get an idea of the narrative beats i point out that Martin has already laid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 It would be really tragic really if this were all true. As many people died for a mistaken love when really, it was a Bard to blame from the North who plucked a Stark Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Tyrell Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Can you find me that quote? That would be really great A Dance With Dragons, The Kingbreaker Quote Better for Daenerys, and for Westeros. Daenerys Targaryen loved her captain, but that was the girl in her, not the queen. Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it. Daemon Blackfyre loved the first Daenerys, and rose in rebellion when denied her. Bittersteel and Bloodraven both lovedShiera Seastar, and the Seven Kingdoms bled. The Prince of Dragonflies loved Jenny of Oldstones so much he cast aside a crown, and Westeros paid the bride price in corpses. All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love, in defiance of their father's wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had himself followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies where he might have had fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire, and grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 That's Barristan, not Rhaegar. Big difference. As he would be assuming along with every one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said: A Dance With Dragons, The Kingbreaker That's Barristan, not Rhaegar. Big difference. As he would be assuming along with every one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Remember, Eddard didn't realize that Renly was gay. It is possible that it was a court secret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 I would laugh so hard if the nameless thing just went with the most popular fan theory out. Just sayin. Pure "Fan Service" to cater to the largest mass crowd? Sounds like a way to make money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 If Rhaegar had a sexual relationship with Arthur Dayne Jon Connington would throw a fit, a proper fit. If Jon Con had known his silver prince had chosen a man that was not him...Jon Con does not seem like a man who would take being scorned lightly. Perhaps he would have fought for Robert in the rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just now, Ralphis Baratheon said: If Rhaegar had a sexual relationship with Arthur Dayne Jon Connington would throw a fit, a proper fit. If Jon Con had known his silver prince had chosen a man that was not him...Jon Con does not seem like a man who would take being scorned lightly. Perhaps he would have fought for Robert in the rebellion. You know i never even considered how poor Jon may have felt about it haha if it were true that would add some serious layers to everything. Perhaps Rhaegar with held it even from Arthur till near the Tourney? The beginning of their relationship would be an interesting matter to consider. The three way friendship is interesting too, especially given one of Rhaegar's known close friends was gay. Adding to the growing suspicion i have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 It is a very interesting notion at the least i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 How does a prince and heir to be King go about a relationship with his male best friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: You know i never even considered how poor Jon may have felt about it haha if it were true that would add some serious layers to everything. Perhaps Rhaegar with held it even from Arthur till near the Tourney? The beginning of their relationship would be an interesting matter to consider. The three way friendship is interesting too, especially given one of Rhaegar's known close friends was gay. Adding to the growing suspicion i have Maybe Rhaegar and Arthur indulged Jon Con in a few nights of bliss at Griffen's Roost? That would explain Jon Con's devotion to Rhaegar and his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Also, lets not forget that the vision Dany see's of Rhaegar is just that. A vision. Given by the House of the Undying who have lied to her repeatedly. There may be no reason to actually trust that vision. Again, Mance could have kidnapped Lyanna as the narrative beats fit better. The person who crowns the maid with the rose is never the person who plucks the Stark Rose and steals the Maid. Eddard's dream is also a fever dream and not to be trusted as warned per GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Maybe Rhaegar and Arthur indulged Jon Con in a few nights of bliss at Griffen's Roost? That would explain Jon Con's devotion to Rhaegar and his son. Well he does think of him as his sweet prince and such, so there is definitely some strong feelings. I would need to dig through his chapters to try and find a good clue to hint at more but it is quite possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Let's say you do go with Rhaegar as Jon father. Jon chose a handsome male prostitute(Satin) to be his personal steward. Even though it angered the NW because there were brothers more qualified and experienced for the job. Jon often describes Satin as being pretty as much as he does Val. Coincidence? Or in like many cases in the story, the son is like the father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 So Arthur Dayne is gay because he is a great swordsman and Rhaegar is gay because he is not a great swordsman? This only works if you already buy that Arthur is a Loras parallel and that Rhaegar is a Renly parallel which is assuming your own conclusion. Are there any other reasons to see Arthur/Loras and Rhaegar/Renly as parallels? http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/begging-the-question/ Some of your premises are based on stereotypes which fortunately GRRM isn’t employing. Sam and Tyrion are bookish and are straight. Marillion, Daeron, and Mance all love music and are clearly straight. Maybe all women who like swords are gay? What about Brienne, Asha and Arya all of whom are straight? Neither Dany nor Cersei care for swords and they have been with women. GRRM fortunately deviates from these stereotypes a lot and therefore we can’t draw any conclusions as to Rhaegar’s or any character’s sexual preference based on these interests. As for Rhaegar’s marriage, you’re disregarding much more plausible explanations · When asked if Rhaegar loved Elia, Barristan cannot say yes. So anyone who doesn't love their spouse from an arranged marriage must therefore be gay? If you were in an arranged marriage and didn’t love your spouse would the only possible reason for that be because you were gay? The odds that one would end up in love or greatly loving their arranged-marriage spouse isn’t great. · GRRM has stated the Elia and Rhaegar's marriage was complicated So all complicated marriages are inevitably because one or both parties are gay? This likely has more to do with the fact that their marriage was arranged or that the complication had a lot to do with Aerys being Aerys, Rhaegar’s consuming obsession with prophesies which would result in Elia dying in childbirth or any number of other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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