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NFL 2017 Championship: The Whiff Six


Jace, Extat

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It was Spicer first but the long body was a Trump rant 

 

ETA: So Doug Marrone has never seen the tape of Coughlin's wins over Belichick. As in, he has never seen those games.

That wouldn't really be anything to me, there's any number of reasons he might have missed the games and then simply never needed to go and look at the film.

But check out this article where he says "if I'm not in the Superbowl I don't watch it."

I wish the writer of the article had pointed out how disqualifying that statement should be for a coach. How the fuck can you, as a professional football coach, NOT watch the Superbowl!?! The two 'best' teams in the league putting it all on the line for the championship and you aren't watching?

That is neglect of your obligation as a coach to improve yourself so that you can better lead and instruct your team.

I think it's generally fair to suggest that teams in the Superbowl are usually doing something with so much success that they made it through the playoffs, and this guy isn't going to watch the game to see if he can learn anything?

That is unacceptable to me.

And maybe it explains why the stupid fuck couldn't beat Belichick and Brady in Buffalo and had to put his coaching career on hold just to get out of the division as fast as he humanly possibly could.

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16 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Anyway Sunday was the most amazing day of playoff football I can ever recall. Just 7 hours of batshit crazy.  I would argue Marcus Williams made the single worst play in NFL history considering the stage and consequences. Never seen anything like it. The closest we have is kickers shanking game-winning/game tying kicks but that's almost mundane compared to what Williams did.

Marty Schottenheimer and Marlon McCree might argue.

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24 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Marty Schottenheimer and Marlon McCree might argue.

Marty? Nothing coming to mind.

I do trust that this moment will never be forgotten or marginalized. In my opinion the Vandershank was pretty comparable (not equal) an ending, but because the Steelers are spoiled and entitled little rape enablers that game doesn't get the attention it deserves. Sure, it's mentioned once a year or so but that was an all-time moment on the level of the Wiff Six or the Tuck Rule or the Tyree Catch and the Steelers even went on to win the goddamn superbowl that year too (yeah bitches, too :P ) but it's kind of been left to be reclaimed by the weeds of time.

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24 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Marty Schottenheimer and Marlon McCree might argue.

That's probably closest. The difference is McCree made a great play followed by an insanely terrible play that left San Diego in the same place they would have been if the pick never happened. Williams just had to make a routine play which he failed spectacularly. Maybe the closest analogue would be Bill Buckner...if the Red Sox immediately lost the World Series when the ball rolled through his legs. 

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The closest analogy to me is safety Rahim Moore in the Ravens vs Broncos game.  For those who don't remember, it was a windy day in Denver, and the Broncos held a 35-28 lead over the Ravens with 44 second left.  On 3rd and 4, the Broncos rush only 3, and still Miller gets pressure relatively quickly.  But Flacco uses his one elite NFL skill and throws the ball really far.  So far in fact, that it goes over Rahim Moore's head, allowing Jacoby Jones to get behind him for an uncontested catch and run touchdown.  Ravens win in overtime and go on to be SB champs.

Now, Rahim Moore's mistake is a little more forgiveable, although as the deep man he really should have known better.  But watching it live both plays just left me dumbfounded about what the safeties were doing.  Just inexplicably bad. 

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2 hours ago, Jaime L said:

That's probably closest. The difference is McCree made a great play followed by an insanely terrible play that left San Diego in the same place they would have been if the pick never happened. Williams just had to make a routine play which he failed spectacularly. Maybe the closest analogue would be Bill Buckner...if the Red Sox immediately lost the World Series when the ball rolled through his legs. 

It was 4th and 5. Actually catching the ball in the first place was an error.  Batting it down would have been a routine play, not a great one.  And he jumped the route he was supposed to be watching, so I'd argue that it was the expected play.

But the real kicker is that it ended his coach's career and his team's run, and perhaps the franchise.  The team never recovered.
San Diego might well have responded to a Super Bowl championship with a stadium deal, much as the 1998 Padres inspired Petco Park.

ETA: So not only did that team (those players) peak and never come close again to those heights, the franchise didn't either and slunk off into the smog.

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10 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

It was 4th and 5. Actually catching the ball in the first place was an error.  Batting it down would have been a routine play, not a great one.  And he jumped the route he was supposed to be watching, so I'd argue that it was the expected play.

But the real kicker is that it ended his coach's career and his team's run, and perhaps the franchise.  The team never recovered.
San Diego might well have responded to a Super Bowl championship with a stadium deal, much as the 1998 Padres inspired Petco Park.

I personally think that if the Chargers and Ravens (the #1 and #2 seeds in 2006) had reverse opponents that the Chargers would have defeated the Colts and the Ravens would have beaten the Patriots.  And I expect the Chargers would have won the SB that year if they had.  Alas, that is not what happened. 

It is really hard to say that any team that loses in the playoffs "deserved" to win.  But the 2006 Chargers, 2007 Patriots and 2012 Broncos are all teams that strike me as huge failures, where they were obviously the best team in the regular season but just couldn't get it done.  Both the Patriots and the Broncos would later have good fortune smile on them a few years later to win a SB.  The Chargers cannot claim such luck. 

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23 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

The closest analogy to me is safety Rahim Moore in the Ravens vs Broncos game.  For those who don't remember, it was a windy day in Denver, and the Broncos held a 35-28 lead over the Ravens with 44 second left.  On 3rd and 4, the Broncos rush only 3, and still Miller gets pressure relatively quickly.  But Flacco uses his one elite NFL skill and throws the ball really far.  So far in fact, that it goes over Rahim Moore's head, allowing Jacoby Jones to get behind him for an uncontested catch and run touchdown.  Ravens win in overtime and go on to be SB champs.

Now, Rahim Moore's mistake is a little more forgiveable, although as the deep man he really should have known better.  But watching it live both plays just left me dumbfounded about what the safeties were doing.  Just inexplicably bad. 

Good call. And even that happened with 44 seconds left which meant the Ravens still had a bunch of different things they could do. For Williams, there was only one play the Vikings were going to try and everyone in the building knew what that was....except Marcus Williams whose brain exploded and he ended up doing this: 

 

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13 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Good call. And even that happened with 44 seconds left which meant the Ravens still had a bunch of different things they could do. For Williams, there was only one play the Vikings were going to try and everyone in the building knew what that was....except Marcus Williams whose brain exploded and he ended up doing this:

Diggs caught the ball at the 34 yard line.  Marcus Williams is playing deep, making sure Diggs cannot get behind him.  Then when the ball is in the air, he closes to make the tackle and win the game. 

The only explanation I've heard that made even a lick of sense is that the Saints had called timeout right before this play and cautioned all players to avoid PI.  IF Williams (for whatever reason) thought that he had mistimed it, he MUST avoid PI.  Pass interference there means the clock stops and the Vikings get a shot at a game winning 51 yard field goal.  It looks like at the last second Williams is worried that he's early, so he contorts himself to avoid hitting Diggs. 

Now, is it reasonable for Williams to be worried about PI?  Yes.  But he completely loses all situational awareness in his desire to avoid PI.  He don't need perfect timing, just let Diggs catch it and tackle him.  Or hit him right when he catches it and try and dislodge.  It is a really really bad play.  But I think that the hyperbole of "worst error in NFL history" is overstating it.  NFL players complete 20 yard sideline routes semi-regularly. 

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38 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Diggs caught the ball at the 34 yard line.  Marcus Williams is playing deep, making sure Diggs cannot get behind him.  Then when the ball is in the air, he closes to make the tackle and win the game. 

The only explanation I've heard that made even a lick of sense is that the Saints had called timeout right before this play and cautioned all players to avoid PI.  IF Williams (for whatever reason) thought that he had mistimed it, he MUST avoid PI.  Pass interference there means the clock stops and the Vikings get a shot at a game winning 51 yard field goal.  It looks like at the last second Williams is worried that he's early, so he contorts himself to avoid hitting Diggs. 

Now, is it reasonable for Williams to be worried about PI?  Yes.  But he completely loses all situational awareness in his desire to avoid PI.  He don't need perfect timing, just let Diggs catch it and tackle him.  Or hit him right when he catches it and try and dislodge.  It is a really really bad play.  But I think that the hyperbole of "worst error in NFL history" is overstating it.  NFL players complete 20 yard sideline routes semi-regularly. 

I think it was something like this as well.  Right after the game Jimmy Johnson said as much, which kinda makes me think it was a concern a coach would express during a time out.

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Diggs caught the ball at the 34 yard line.  Marcus Williams is playing deep, making sure Diggs cannot get behind him.  Then when the ball is in the air, he closes to make the tackle and win the game. 

The only explanation I've heard that made even a lick of sense is that the Saints had called timeout right before this play and cautioned all players to avoid PI.  IF Williams (for whatever reason) thought that he had mistimed it, he MUST avoid PI.  Pass interference there means the clock stops and the Vikings get a shot at a game winning 51 yard field goal.  It looks like at the last second Williams is worried that he's early, so he contorts himself to avoid hitting Diggs. 

Now, is it reasonable for Williams to be worried about PI?  Yes.  But he completely loses all situational awareness in his desire to avoid PI.  He don't need perfect timing, just let Diggs catch it and tackle him.  Or hit him right when he catches it and try and dislodge.  It is a really really bad play.  But I think that the hyperbole of "worst error in NFL history" is overstating it.  NFL players complete 20 yard sideline routes semi-regularly. 

I still think the explanation I laid out is valid, and I've heard some analysts say as much. The ball placement helped Diggs avoid Williams. Williams was playing the pass to the outside shoulder where he thought the ball would be. 

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

But I think that the hyperbole of "worst error in NFL history" is overstating it.  NFL players complete 20 yard sideline routes semi-regularly. 

If at worst we're saying this is the third worst play ever - that doesn't sound like hyperbole.  And personally I think it's worse than Moore and McCree. Sure 20 yard sideline routes get completed semi-regularly but rarely in a situation where there's 10 seconds left and it's the only reasonable option an opponent has.Not to mention it was thrown from the Vikings 39 yard line. That was a 27 yard pass. And still even if he did the worst thing within the range of normal football competence when the pass was completed and all he could do is force him out, we're still talking a 50+ yard FG which is like a 50/50 proposition in that situation.  

Saints had a 96% chance of winning before that play and 0% after. Even with Marlon McCree and Rahim Moore the Chargers and Broncos had chances to win their respective games. This ended it for the Saints instantly. All because Marcus Williams went full Ralph Wiggum both in terms of actions and decision making. Can't imagine what Drew Brees thought watching that. 

All that said, rewatching the video the other amazing thing about that play is there's 2 Vikings Receivers in the area and if you count Marcus Williams, there's all of 2 Saints as well. Where the fuck were the rest of them? If we want to make this a team award, I'd be fine with that. 

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1 hour ago, Guy Kilmore said:

I think it was something like this as well.  Right after the game Jimmy Johnson said as much, which kinda makes me think it was a concern a coach would express during a time out.

Valid concern, as the Saints had been victimized by at least one total bullshit DPI call on Crawley in that game.

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38 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

All that said, rewatching the video the other amazing thing about that play is there's 2 Vikings Receivers in the area and if you count Marcus Williams, there's all of 2 Saints as well. Where the fuck were the rest of them? If we want to make this a team award, I'd be fine with that. 

This might help:

Quote

A Mismatch in the Secondary

As the play, called “Seven Heaven,” unfolded, the Vikings had Adam Thielen, their most consistent receiver, lined up on the left side of the field, while Stefon Diggs, Jarius Wright and Kyle Rudolph were lined up on the right. This caused a matchup nightmare for the New Orleans secondary. P.J. Williams covered Rudolph, Ken Crawley covered Wright, and Marshon Lattimore was on the opposite side of the field covering Thielen. That left safety Marcus Williams dropping back deep to do his best against the speedy Diggs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/sports/vikings-saints-stefon-diggs-marcus-williams.html

 

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Cute note: 1st grade kids in Jacksonville sends the Jags some game plans to beat the Pats.

There is no truth to the rumor that Mike Tomlin dispatched Joey Porter and five of his friends to jump a six-year-old to get hold of the Patriot-beating plans, because Tomlin doesn't know what a game plan looks like.

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6 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Cute note: 1st grade kids in Jacksonville sends the Jags some game plans to beat the Pats.

There is no truth to the rumor that Mike Tomlin dispatched Joey Porter and five of his friends to jump a six-year-old to get hold of the Patriot-beating plans, because Tomlin doesn't know what a game plan looks like.

Nice! Joey Porter is such a thug, I can't remember if I commented after that Bengals-Steelers national tragedy but he should have been given the Sean Payton treatment. And if we are sharing inspirational stories I have not seen anyone mention that Vikings fans have donate $100,000 to the Saints punter Moorestead's charitable organization, the guy who came out for the PAT with broken ribs. He says that he is blown away by the generosity of Vikings fans and will be hoping for them to make the 'Ship so that he can make his donation to a Minneapolis children's hospital during Media Week. 

 

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8 hours ago, Nictarion said:

I think my picks for the Divisional round were even worse than the WC. 1/4 last weekend. Going with the Pats over the Jags, and Vikes over the Eagles for the Conference champs. 

Yeah, I managed to go .500 in the WC and Divisional picks.  And I'll take the same as you for the conference championships:uhoh:

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16 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Saints rushed 4. So 7 in coverage. The screenshots show 3 Saints in the picture covering Diggs, Wright and Rudolph. Where are the other 4 Saints? I'd be curious to see the other side of the field. Are 4 guys on Thielen? Are two on the phone at the 50 yard line arranging their NFCG tickets? It's like the clock struck midnight and the Saints D turned back into their 2016 incarnation.

 

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2 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Saints rushed 4. So 7 in coverage. The screenshots show 3 Saints in the picture covering Diggs, Wright and Rudolph. Where are the other 4 Saints? I'd be curious to see the other side of the field. Are 4 guys on Thielen? Are two on the phone at the 50 yard line arranging their NFCG tickets? It's like the clock struck midnight and the Saints D turned back into their 2016 incarnation.

I was personally surprised that there were only two Saints around to make the play.  There were only two real danger areas of the field: the sideline ~25-30 yards down the field.  Why wasn't there any backup for Williams if he misses the tackle? 

This SB Nation article indicates that there were two Vikings essentially covering the middle of the field (for no good reason).

Quote

A bigger problem is where they had two linebackers, in the middle of the field and bunched up close to the line of scrimmage. One of them does end up dropping back and moving toward the ball, but it doesn’t change the fact that they’ve got two defenders tied up in the middle of the field where the Vikings could not afford to throw it and hope to stop the clock with less than 10 seconds left when they snapped it in the first place.

 

The article also highlights that Diggs was pretty close to going down even without contact.  He had to contort himself to catch it, and was off balance on the landing.  Even a crappy tackle attempt would have done it. 

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