Leo of House Cartel

The Wildling/Old Northern influx to come..

7 posts in this topic

One thing I am particularly looking forward to seeing over the course of the next two books is how the resurgence of so many old school Northern sub groups plays out with the rest of Westeros in mind. By the end of ADWD, we are poised to see several parties make waves, each of whom have a highly traditional Northern/Old Gods way of life.

The Free Folk - including The Weeper's crew, the Shieldhall gang, the Wildlings occupying the Castles along the Wall and everyone else who was brought through by Jon and Stannis. With Jon stabbed and many of the Free Folk aware of the Others threat, there's a chance we will see a number of these Wildlings head south, so as to avoid the cold shadows.

Mance and his spearwives - The King. Mance is clearly a capable enough force, judging by his sneaking into Winterfell and his forced assimilation of the various Wildling tribes. Depending on the truth of the Pink Letter, Mance could be poised to get up to all sorts of shenanigans should he successfully help Stannis/Jon/Mel. If things don't go so positively at Winterfell, he could even just say "screw it" and head south.

The Mountain Clans of The North - several of whom are at the Wall and many of whom are down near Winterfell with Stannis. These people hate the Free Folk and love The Ned, so might be a bit better behaved than other groups mentioned here. Depending on the result of the Battle at Winterfell, families like the Wulls might have a much stronger influence of the North in the days to come..

The Skagossi - with Davos on his rescue mission, there is a strong chance that he might return to mainland Westeros with a host of big hairy cannibals at his back. I'm not sure if Davos would be with them or running from them but all the same, the chances we will see them remain high.

The Mountain Clans of The Vale - similar to those of The North, the Vale clans are numerous, stubborn and dogmatic, the big difference being that the Vale Clans have more in common with the Free Folk. As the Clans are described as getting bold in AFFC, one would think that they would be getting ready to make some kind of major move, considering the Eyrie is closed for winter and so much potential plunder is hanging around at the bottom of the mountain. The Clans have been said to historicaly go all out with their boldness/savagery when Winter comes, as their only other choice would be to sit and freeze.

With Winter's arrival and the chance of White Walkers soon making it through the Wall, one could be forgiven for thinking that Westeros was going back in time. Not only do we have insane snow, brutal  cold and potentially Ice demons knocking at the door, we also have a high number of people who partake in traditional Northern trends like love of the Old Gods, cannibalism, stealing wives, sacrifice and wearing "bear paws" showing up in populated areas.

One would think any of these groups would be more well adjusted to any tundra like weather conditions or complete darkness that might come with season's change. Hard people who are quick to take offence, most of the societies I have mentioned are looked down upon by "regular" Westerosi and vice versa. There could certainly be trouble brewing when the rest of Westeros catches wind of all these harsh wanderers.

With that said, how might these parties influence their respective area's response to Winter? Will the cold, darkness and death allow them to flourish in comparison to the "kneelers" and "southrons" of this world?

 

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Not to forget Bran, as a living Old God himself, reviving the magic of the Heart Trees all over the North 

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1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Not to forget Bran, as a living Old God himself, reviving the magic of the Heart Trees all over the North 

Most certainly.

Regardless of whether or not he ever returns from the cave, he will probably have some massive impact on the general populations lives. If he's already contacting Theon then through the trees then what's to say he couldn't do the same for every other weirwood in the country?

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38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

One thing I am particularly looking forward to seeing over the course of the next two books is how the resurgence of so many old school Northern sub groups plays out with the rest of Westeros in mind. By the end of ADWD, we are poised to see several parties make waves, each of whom have a highly traditional Northern/Old Gods way of life.

I don't think one should put those groups together. The Northmen have little and less to do with the wildlings, and the wildlings are no homogeneous group, either. The fact that some wildlings - not all of them - keep the same old gods as the Northmen don't make them particularly alike.

38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

The Free Folk - including The Weeper's crew, the Shieldhall gang, the Wildlings occupying the Castles along the Wall and everyone else who was brought through by Jon and Stannis. With Jon stabbed and many of the Free Folk aware of the Others threat, there's a chance we will see a number of these Wildlings head south, so as to avoid the cold shadows.

That is pretty likely. In fact, considering that those wildlings all come with their families chances are that very few of them have any intention to remain at the Wall unless they have to. Which they now don't, considering that Jon is dead.

And the Weeper's gang is most definitely not staying there, either. Should he take the Bridge of Skulls with his army - he has much more men than Tormund brought to Castle Black - he is likely to destroy the Shadow Tower and/or pushing on down south afterwards. If goes straight down south he would like invade the lands of the clansmen, butchering the defenseless women and children there, and stealing whatever winter provisions they have. Then he would continue down south, assuming nobody stops him - whoever wins at Winterfell could try to stop him, presumably, assuming they learn about his actions in time.

38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Mance and his spearwives - The King. Mance is clearly a capable enough force, judging by his sneaking into Winterfell and his forced assimilation of the various Wildling tribes. Depending on the truth of the Pink Letter, Mance could be poised to get up to all sorts of shenanigans should he successfully help Stannis/Jon/Mel. If things don't go so positively at Winterfell, he could even just say "screw it" and head south.

Mance is just one guy, and unless he is there at Winterfell when Theon and/or Asha get there, there is no POV around to cover whatever he does. He could do things. Or he could already be dead.

38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

The Mountain Clans of The North - several of whom are at the Wall and many of whom are down near Winterfell with Stannis. These people hate the Free Folk and love The Ned, so might be a bit better behaved than other groups mentioned here. Depending on the result of the Battle at Winterfell, families like the Wulls might have a much stronger influence of the North in the days to come..

That would depend on the outcome of the battles at hand - and in the long run also the ending of the series. It is quite likely that people rising to power and prominence during the buildup for the fight against the Others are not going to survive the final confrontation while those staying out of that might.

In addition, many clansmen do not expect or intend to survive even the fighting against the Boltons. They rode to war to die, pretty much like the Northmen did during the Dance. That might help Stannis win some victories, but it is not making it very likely that most of the Northmen fighting for him are going to live.

38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

The Skagossi - with Davos on his rescue mission, there is a strong chance that he might return to mainland Westeros with a host of big hairy cannibals at his back. I'm not sure if Davos would be with them or running from them but all the same, the chances we will see them remain high.

First Davos has to get to Skagos. And then we have to see what's going on on the island. 

38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

The Mountain Clans of The Vale - similar to those of The North, the Vale clans are numerous, stubborn and dogmatic, the big difference being that the Vale Clans have more in common with the Free Folk. As the Clans are described as getting bold in AFFC, one would think that they would be getting ready to make some kind of major move, considering the Eyrie is closed for winter and so much potential plunder is hanging around at the bottom of the mountain. The Clans have been said to historicaly go all out with their boldness/savagery when Winter comes, as their only other choice would be to sit and freeze.

We might see them again, but considering that they are apparently not as many men as the people in the Vale, they are not likely to be a major threat. Rather something of a nuisance. At least while the strength of the Vale remains still in the Vale. If they were to march to war outside the Vale the clansmen might raid more than just a few castles.

But one should also keep in mind that the clansmen would have some meager winter provisions. They would only attack and risk their own lives when they really were in considerable need of food. Which shouldn't happen in the first year of winter.

38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

With Winter's arrival and the chance of White Walkers soon making it through the Wall, one could be forgiven for thinking that Westeros was going back in time. Not only do we have insane snow, brutal  cold and potentially Ice demons knocking at the door, we also have a high number of people who partake in traditional Northern trends like love of the Old Gods, cannibalism, stealing wives, sacrifice and wearing "bear paws" showing up in populated areas.

Once the cold comes and Bran makes himself known the good, old blood sacrifices should return. Whether that's going to help much is another matter, but desperate people do desperate things. Not just mad Queen's Men.

38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

One would think any of these groups would be more well adjusted to any tundra like weather conditions or complete darkness that might come with season's change. Hard people who are quick to take offence, most of the societies I have mentioned are looked down upon by "regular" Westerosi and vice versa. There could certainly be trouble brewing when the rest of Westeros catches wind of all these harsh wanderers.

Technically this should be true, but the winter that's going to come isn't going to be a 'normal winter'. Thus even the wildlings and the Northmen aren't likely really prepared for it. Especially in regards to the amount of cold and snow that's going to come.

This should also be an issue down in the south, when the cold is going to hit regions where it usually doesn't snow all that often. However, unlike the people in the North and the Riverlands most people down there should at least have enough food.

38 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

With that said, how might these parties influence their respective area's response to Winter? Will the cold, darkness and death allow them to flourish in comparison to the "kneelers" and "southrons" of this world?

If that was the point of the story then the wildlings wouldn't have fled their lands. If they can't stand against the Others in summer, they can't stand against the Others and their cold in winter. 

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10 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

One thing I am particularly looking forward to seeing over the course of the next two books is how the resurgence of so many old school Northern sub groups plays out with the rest of Westeros in mind. By the end of ADWD, we are poised to see several parties make waves, each of whom have a highly traditional Northern/Old Gods way of life.

The Free Folk - including The Weeper's crew, the Shieldhall gang, the Wildlings occupying the Castles along the Wall and everyone else who was brought through by Jon and Stannis. With Jon stabbed and many of the Free Folk aware of the Others threat, there's a chance we will see a number of these Wildlings head south, so as to avoid the cold shadows.

Mance and his spearwives - The King. Mance is clearly a capable enough force, judging by his sneaking into Winterfell and his forced assimilation of the various Wildling tribes. Depending on the truth of the Pink Letter, Mance could be poised to get up to all sorts of shenanigans should he successfully help Stannis/Jon/Mel. If things don't go so positively at Winterfell, he could even just say "screw it" and head south.

The Mountain Clans of The North - several of whom are at the Wall and many of whom are down near Winterfell with Stannis. These people hate the Free Folk and love The Ned, so might be a bit better behaved than other groups mentioned here. Depending on the result of the Battle at Winterfell, families like the Wulls might have a much stronger influence of the North in the days to come..

The Skagossi - with Davos on his rescue mission, there is a strong chance that he might return to mainland Westeros with a host of big hairy cannibals at his back. I'm not sure if Davos would be with them or running from them but all the same, the chances we will see them remain high.

The Mountain Clans of The Vale - similar to those of The North, the Vale clans are numerous, stubborn and dogmatic, the big difference being that the Vale Clans have more in common with the Free Folk. As the Clans are described as getting bold in AFFC, one would think that they would be getting ready to make some kind of major move, considering the Eyrie is closed for winter and so much potential plunder is hanging around at the bottom of the mountain. The Clans have been said to historicaly go all out with their boldness/savagery when Winter comes, as their only other choice would be to sit and freeze.

With Winter's arrival and the chance of White Walkers soon making it through the Wall, one could be forgiven for thinking that Westeros was going back in time. Not only do we have insane snow, brutal  cold and potentially Ice demons knocking at the door, we also have a high number of people who partake in traditional Northern trends like love of the Old Gods, cannibalism, stealing wives, sacrifice and wearing "bear paws" showing up in populated areas.

One would think any of these groups would be more well adjusted to any tundra like weather conditions or complete darkness that might come with season's change. Hard people who are quick to take offence, most of the societies I have mentioned are looked down upon by "regular" Westerosi and vice versa. There could certainly be trouble brewing when the rest of Westeros catches wind of all these harsh wanderers.

With that said, how might these parties influence their respective area's response to Winter? Will the cold, darkness and death allow them to flourish in comparison to the "kneelers" and "southrons" of this world?

 

Ah Leo!  One of my all time favorite things to ponder!  I had a Wildlings topic a couple of years back and it was a lively discussion even if it seems a lot of people aren't that interested in where they came from.  I think it's safe to say they were 1st Men and many of them even claim to still be 1st Men.  Those I do think are walking the walk are the Thenns, with their burned faces tattooed with ash and fearsome demeanors.  What a lot of people forget about the Thenns is that they still work bronze and speak the Old Tongue.   What I don't know is which gods they worship.  That said the Thenns are already assimilating south of the wall at Karhold.  Will this help anyone with anything?  Yah, I think it will.  

It seems to me the south North has forgotten a great deal about being 1st Men, fierce beyond measure. By and large the south North has settled into a more "realm" abiding group of feudal lords.  History tells us many of the Northern lords were kings in their own right.  It's almost sad they were absorbed into the realm.  Not the Thenns, they still hold to a Magnar, a god among them.  That's fierce.  

So then, my friend, I think the south North is in serious need of reminders of their own roots.  All those years wasted with the Nights Watch holding them back because these people were inconvenient...or scary?   Were the Wildlings ostracized because they refused to keep faith with the old gods?  Are they the single largest population of the real 1st Men?  I think probably so.

The Wall doesn't symbolize the same thing to the Wildlings that it does to the south North.  We read repeatedly how the Wildlings felt trapped behind the Wall.   Abandoned?  Forsaken?  They do have an axe to grind with the rest of the population.  That said, they've also taken oaths to become brothers of the Nights Watch and married into at least 1 southron family and even taken up R'hllor--gads!  They are not savages while retaining a savage spirit.  No one understands the threat of the Others more than they do.  

The Mountain Clans of the Vale have got good steel a Lannister paid a debt with.  They have raided and taken at least 1 lady.  And there is a tourney coming soon...

I had to stop myself as I could chat about this all night into tomorrow, Leo.  A wonderful topic!  

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15 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

One thing I am particularly looking forward to seeing over the course of the next two books is how the resurgence of so many old school Northern sub groups plays out with the rest of Westeros in mind. By the end of ADWD, we are poised to see several parties make waves, each of whom have a highly traditional Northern/Old Gods way of life.

despite the burning, wildlings are carving faces in trees south of the wall 

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