U.S. Politics: Girthers Vs. Anti-Girthers

[James Arryn]

1 hour ago, WinterFox said:

Hubris? Me? Listen to me. I'm the least hubris! I'm the least hubris person you've ever met! 

Thank you for bringing that to my attention, I will adjust fire accordingly. I'm sure there are other examples than what you quoted, but in that particular instance I was just trying to be whimsical. 

Lol, if by whimsical you mean satirical, then the joke is almost beautifully on me...in recent posts when i’ve read your thing about how ‘we’ve already won, we’re already the best, we only need to recognize how awesome we are and not chicken little ourselves to death’ my internal reaction was to remind myself how often Americans actually do live up to satirical stereotypes, something occurring to me sooooo often in this Trumposphere. Like ‘yeah, what this (or any) situation most needs is for Americans to stop worrying about how the world thinks, realize how much better we are than everyone else, how awesome our default mode is and just go from there’, /sarcasm.

Like, amidst all the horrible shit he’s said/done, to me the defining moment I think of in Trump’s run is pretty minor, that time he was at the...NATO? G-8? UN? summit where he butts his way through all the other leaders when they approach the cameras, just kind of shoves them out of the way and then stands, hand on hips, chest puffed out, for all the world doing an Il Duce impersonation and so many Americans went ‘presidential’ on Twitter. That was...perfect.

 

So when I saw in your recent posts, I chalked up to you needing to be uplifted for personal reasons, and in my own...hubris...didn’t even fully take them in as I felt unable to respond without being a condescending dick. Then for w/e reason this time I did, all certain in my smug anti-American moodiness. 

So, if you were in fact being satirical all this time...just awesome. On me, as in ha-ha, James, you head’s in your ass again. 

[Sivin]

1 hour ago, James Arryn said:

Lol, if by whimsical you mean satirical, then the joke is almost beautifully on me...in recent posts when i’ve read your thing about how ‘we’ve already won, we’re already the best, we only need to recognize how awesome we are and not chicken little ourselves to death’ my internal reaction was to remind myself how often Americans actually do live up to satirical stereotypes, something occurring to me sooooo often in this Trumposphere. Like ‘yeah, what this (or any) situation most needs is for Americans to stop worrying about how the world thinks, realize how much better we are than everyone else, how awesome our default mode is and just go from there’, /sarcasm.

Like, amidst all the horrible shit he’s said/done, to me the defining moment I think of in Trump’s run is pretty minor, that time he was at the...NATO? G-8? UN? summit where he butts his way through all the other leaders when they approach the cameras, just kind of shoves them out of the way and then stands, hand on hips, chest puffed out, for all the world doing an Il Duce impersonation and so many Americans went ‘presidential’ on Twitter. That was...perfect.

 

So when I saw in your recent posts, I chalked up to you needing to be uplifted for personal reasons, and in my own...hubris...didn’t even fully take them in as I felt unable to respond without being a condescending dick. Then for w/e reason this time I did, all certain in my smug anti-American moodiness. 

So, if you were in fact being satirical all this time...just awesome. On me, as in ha-ha, James, you head’s in your ass again. 

Uh-oh... Yeah, I'm putting the positive spin on things but I actually do believe that we've made it through the worst of things and it's going to get better. I chose the word whimsical consciously and in full knowledge of its meaning. 

The threats we are facing are still terrifying, but I am trying to take the edge off so that we can focus on being productive instead of fatalistic. 

 

ETA: I don't think anyone here needs to be convinced of how tenuous our grasp on Democracy is, so I have taken it upon myself to try and direct the conversation towards solutions and potential gains rather than endless wallowing in despair that accomplishes nothing. 

If that helps. 

[Inigima]

55 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

Uh-oh... Yeah, I'm putting the positive spin on things but I actually do believe that we've made it through the worst of things and it's going to get better. I chose the word whimsical consciously and in full knowledge of its meaning. 

The threats we are facing are still terrifying, but I am trying to take the edge off so that we can focus on being productive instead of fatalistic. 

 

ETA: I don't think anyone here needs to be convinced of how tenuous our grasp on Democracy is, so I have taken it upon myself to try and direct the conversation towards solutions and potential gains rather than endless wallowing in despair that accomplishes nothing. 

If that helps. 

I am baffled by the wide-eyed optimism you are exhibiting. Everything is shit and we are all fucked and there is no reason to be optimistic about anything in the political sphere.

[Martell Spy]

Senate in disarray with shutdown hours away
The chamber couldn't agree on scheduling a vote, let alone passing legislation to keep the government open.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/19/senate-dissaray-government-shutdown-349298

Quote

 

Indeed, despite the floor theatrics and partisan sniping, other senior senators stressed that behind the scenes, the two sides were making progress toward some sort of a bipartisan deal on immigration that could sidestep a shutdown.

The quartet of deputy House and Senate leaders met privately again Thursday afternoon with top White House and administration officials as they tried to hammer out the contours of an agreement for Dreamers.

“For the first time, we finally started talking about real issues: the Dream Act, citizenship and border security in more specific terms,” Durbin said late Thursday night. “So far, we’ve been talking about generalities. But today, we got more specific. So I hope it’s a promising beginning.”

Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas) left the meeting saying he was “somewhat encouraged” yet stressed that there would be no deal until the four leaders and the White House agreed on everything in an immigration accord.

 

 

[Martell Spy]

David Frum on why Republicans chose Trumpocracy over democracy

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/18/16880524/donald-trump-democracy-republicans-trumpocracy

Quote

As the outlook for conservatives and Republicans becomes more bleak, they’re going to face a choice: Either they accommodate some of the changes that are happening to American society, like universal heath coverage, or else they’re going to have to face up to the fact that what they believe can’t be achieved if everybody votes.

 

[Martell Spy]

 

Why Is It So Hard for Americans to Get a Decent Raise?
A new answer could change how we think about unions, monopolies, and the minimum wage.

https://slate.com/business/2018/01/a-new-theory-for-why-americans-cant-get-a-raise.html?via=recirc_engaged

Quote

Since 1979, inflation-adjusted hourly pay is up just 3.41 percent for the middle 20 percent of Americans while labor’s overall share of national income has declined sharply since the early 2000s. There are lots of possible explanations for why this is, from long-term factors like the rise of automation and decline of organized labor, to short-term ones, such as the lingering weakness in the job market left over from the great recession. But a recent study by a group of labor economists introduces an interesting theory into the mix: Workers’ pay may be lagging because the U.S. is suffering from a shortage of employers.

 

[Fez]

Not clear yet. But it's possible Trump's approval bump is disappearing.

I don't think it was an issue of bad polling either. There were some good polling companies showing some improvement of Trump, but these are more recent polls. I don't think "shithole" hurt Trump, but I think him generally being back in the news is helping to remind short-term memory voters why they don't like him.

Also, and I have no evidence of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Stormy Daniels story is having a bigger impact than pundits think. It's the kind of juicy gossip story that the political media is mostly ignoring (though they shouldn't considering how they treated Bill Clinton's affairs), but that tabloid magazines love; and the tabloids can have a wide influence among low-info voters on the rare times that they get involved with political issues.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Well it is morning on Shut down eve. On a personal note I found my position will be deemed essenital though it is not official.

The Democrats need to be ready in the end with the Chip being included though it is not a 10 year funding. Details like those can rarely matter. I do think there is a clear line with Trump's constant waffling and that should be certain. There is too much with vague rhetoric with many people lives being upsetted. 

On a more hopeful note Instant Karma could be coming.

Quote

Former Trump staffer Omarosa Manigault Newmanmight have secretly recorded private conversations in the White House as she feared special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe, The New York Daily News reported Friday.

Sources told the Daily News that Manigault Newman, who abruptly resigned from the White House late last year, “loves” to record meetings. Her official last day in the administration is Saturday.

...

Manigault Newman is also reportedly seeking meetings with lawyers as she is concerned that she will become part of Mueller’s probe into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.

She has met with top attorneys like Lisa Bloom and Monique Pressley, according to the Daily News.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/369689-omarosa-may-have-secretly-taped-white-house-conversations-report

[Fragile Bird]

What astonishes me is seeing how many people are saying things like "what happens in their marriage is between Melania and Trump", and "you have no idea what their marital arrangements are", "you have no right to judge".

WTF? 

Sure, every woman who marries a rich man has a clause in their pre-nup that says he has the right to fuck around if she gets pregnant and has a baby, so he can satisfy his sexual needs.

Perfectly presidential.

 

[LongRider]

5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

What astonishes me is seeing how many people are saying things like "what happens in their marriage is between Melania and Trump", and "you have no idea what their marital arrangements are", "you have no right to judge".

WTF? 

Sure, every woman who marries a rich man has a clause in their pre-nup that says he has the right to fuck around if she gets pregnant and has a baby, so he can satisfy his sexual needs.

Perfectly presidential.

 

Every president should also have the right to pay porn stars hush money for said affairs.

edt: I should have said presidential candidate; but now that Trump is the President, them to, if needed. 

[Dr. Pepper]

4 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

What astonishes me is seeing how many people are saying things like "what happens in their marriage is between Melania and Trump", and "you have no idea what their marital arrangements are", "you have no right to judge".

WTF? 

Sure, every woman who marries a rich man has a clause in their pre-nup that says he has the right to fuck around if she gets pregnant and has a baby, so he can satisfy his sexual needs.

Perfectly presidential.

 

I'm the one who said those things.  You literally have no idea what's involved in their marriage.  Stop playing the morality police.  I get sick of monogamists thinking they have a monopoly over how relationships are supposed to work.  

[LongRider]

16 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Well it is morning on Shut down eve. On a personal note I found my position will be deemed essenital though it is not official.

The Democrats need to be ready in the end with the Chip being included though it is not a 10 year funding. Details like those can rarely matter. I do think there is a clear line with Trump's constant waffling and that should be certain. There is too much with vague rhetoric with many people lives being upsetted. 

On a more hopeful note Instant Karma could be coming.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/369689-omarosa-may-have-secretly-taped-white-house-conversations-report

"Lordy, I hope there's tapes. "

[Jace, Extat]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I'm the one who said those things.  You literally have no idea what's involved in their marriage.  Stop playing the morality police.  I get sick of monogamists thinking they have a monopoly over how relationships are supposed to work.  

I could give a fuck about this poem star, but I would encourage that discarded bread crust to fuck around, whatever kept him out of my bed

[Fragile Bird]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I'm the one who said those things.  You literally have no idea what's involved in their marriage.  Stop playing the morality police.  I get sick of monogamists thinking they have a monopoly over how relationships are supposed to work.  

That is laughable in this particular case, with this particular man, who belongs to this particular party, with his particular base.

It's like saying the 'girther movement' is fat shaming. There are comments that have been made about Trump that are fat shaming indeed, but it's about the birther claims and packs of lies. And about liars.

I genuinely look upon the above comments to be about normalizing the actions of thoroughly amoral (maybe immoral as well) man, not about criticizing someone in a thoughtful, loving, consensual relationship. 

[Dr. Pepper]

3 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

That is laughable in this particular case, with this particular man, who belongs to this particular party, with his particular base.

It's like saying the 'girther movement' is fat shaming. There are comments that have been made about Trump that are fat shaming indeed, but it's about the birther claims and packs of lies. And about liars.

I genuinely look upon the above comments to be about normalizing the actions of thoroughly amoral (maybe immoral as well) man, not about criticizing someone in a thoughtful, loving, consensual relationship. 

Well, you can pretend the girther issue isn't both about lies, birth claims and fat shaming, but you're wrong.  Fat shaming is certainly a component of it.

And no, it's not laughable.  Evangelicals are the most hypocritical shit who ever walked the face of the earth.  They voted for a man who bragged on tape about sexually assaulting women.  No one thought Trump was ever monogamous with his wives.  Yes, I am interested in normalizing non monogamy.  You people don't get to say how other people conduct their relationships.  It doesn't appear that Trump blackmailed his lover on video, she wasn't his intern, he didn't rape her.  Looks consensual.  You're focusing on something ridiculously stupid and private.  

[DMC]

So it's hard to see how a shutdown doesn't happen at this point, other than maybe the mini-CR.  This is a unique situation that isn't really comparable to the last two shutdowns.  Both in 1995-6 and 2013, the shutdowns were clearly generated by the House majority (and Ted Cruz), and Clinton/Obama had an easy time winning the blame game because depicting an opposition House majority as extreme and egregious is not very difficult.  

Here, the GOP has perhaps the simpler argument:  they're merely continuing funding, including funding CHIP, and DACA doesn't expire until March.  If there's no mini-CR, I would expect both parties to wait it out at least a few days to see how the public reacts and who they blame.  Unlike the last two shutdowns, it's very unclear who wins that.  Sure, there's that CBS poll that says 87% favor DACA, but it also says even among those that favor DACA, only 46 favor a shutdown while 48 oppose.  Should be interesting.

3 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

David Frum on why Republicans chose Trumpocracy over democracy

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/18/16880524/donald-trump-democracy-republicans-trumpocracy

Yeah Frum is very on point that the GOP/Trumpian agenda is fundamentally unable to be a truly governing (majority) agenda.  Also, he had a shockingly insightful quote that speaks to my research:

Quote

The United States government is a set of giant bureaucracies, and most of those bureaucracies can function on their own for a long time before they run out of steam. Any place where the work of the bureaucracies has to be coordinated is broken. The National Security Council is defective. There’s no office of national drug policy, and we’re in the middle of the worst drug addiction epidemic in American history. The Department of Justice keeps arresting people, [Health and Human Services] keeps sending out the Medicaid checks, but there is no center, no real stability.

There are two main structural characteristics of agencies when it comes to presidential influence:  politicization - which refers to the ability to staff agencies with like-minded appointees - and centralization - which refers to presidential control over an agency's decision making.  The best way for presidents to align agencies to their aims is to "tradeoff" centralization in favor of politicization; it is much less costly to fill the upper-level staff with like minded appointees.  Moreover, these politicized staff are crucial in solving coordination problems, both horizontally (between agencies) and vertically (president to political staff to careerist bureaucrats).  Trump's inability and/or unwillingness to staff agencies continues to be debilitating to his administration and a godsend to health of the body politic.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

But has it sort of worked, even if in an unintended way? If it wasn't for the rhetoric coming from the USA, would North and South Korea be marching under a unified flag at the winter Olympics this year? I don't think it's an accident that RoK and DPRK made this arrangement at this time. Though I do think it's an accident  that US behavior has facilitated this particular move. It's an improvement in Korean Peninsula relations, but possibly not of a kind that the Trump Admin would necessarily have wanted to see.

Well it’s not the first time they’ve done this though, and worse, Trump’s stupidity is actually helping the DPRK achieve its main goal: reunification under their leadership.

[all swedes are racist]

wait, is frum claiming there literally is no office of drug control policy?

[Fez]

3 minutes ago, dr. thicc president said:

wait, is frum claiming there literally is no office of drug control policy?

There basically isn't. ONDCP has been badly defunded over the past two decades and does not lead the Federal response on any drug crises.

[DMC]

8 minutes ago, dr. thicc president said:

wait, is frum claiming there literally is no office of drug control policy?

I think he's referring to both the fact the agency has been led by an acting director for the entirety of Trump's presidency, and Trump's plans to gut the agency.