Mexal Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Morpheus said: An agreement has been reached in the senate to end the shut down. http://beta.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-congress-shutdown-20180122-story.html Dems got "assurances". Waste of 3 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 So no deal on Friday to a deal on Monday with virtually the same conditions on the ground. With friends like these..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 "Assurances" arent worth the paper they're printed on, at least not from the GOP. They've shown that before and if Democrats are banking on that then they're idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Inigima said: "Assurances" arent worth the paper they're printed on, at least not from the GOP. They've shown that before and if Democrats are banking on that then they're idiots. They appear to have stabbed a member of their own party (Susan Collins) in the back over “assurances.” What makes the Democrats think they won’t get the same treatment? And even if Senate Republicans allow a DACA vote, there’s no reason to believe the House will do anything about. The Dems blinked and got rolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Inigima said: "Assurances" arent worth the paper they're printed on, at least not from the GOP. They've shown that before and if Democrats are banking on that then they're idiots. I'm not sure they are. I think they are too worried about losing the messaging war that they want to get out of this shutdown. Which is disappointing, but not terribly surprising for Democrats. My suspicion is that they think they have a winning hand at the midterms and they don't want anything to change that. This looks a lot like what @lokisnow has been railing against, namely Democrats think that losing on policy is somehow the key to winning power. I'm not usually as pessimistic as he is, but this "deal" stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Mexal said: Dems got "assurances". Waste of 3 days. It sure looks like they rolled over. Democrats gonna Democrat, leave it to them to squander momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I'm not sure they are. I think they are too worried about losing the messaging war that they want to get out of this shutdown. They could have won the messaging war. Their problem is the messengers. Pelosi and Schumer aren’t popular people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Wow. Democrats in power all need to be replaced. What a bunch of moron piece of shit worthless cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 In other news that is probably more important, PA Supreme Court orders new congressional maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The agreement is to fund the government till February 8th, at which point the Democrats can cave once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I guess this is one way to make the Senate Intel committee useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I think y'all are missing the actual win here. It's easy because the reporting on this is mostly shit, hence why the Democrats were in a tough position in the first place. The assurances are irrelevant and not the point. McConnell is an evil piece of shit and can't be trusted. At best, it gives you some better messaging later. What all reporting I'm seeing does say though is that this deal includes a 6 year CHIP extension and it's not the shitty poison-pill-laden House Bill from last week. Which, if there's nothing else to this bill we don't yet know about, means Democrats got the hostages out and substantially improved their shot at winning the messaging war at the next clusterfuck in a few weeks. The GOP can no longer frame this as a choice between children (proper white american children in the eyes of the public, sadly) and dreamers. Obviously everything can change as we get more news but for the moment this actually looks like a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Shryke said: What all reporting I'm seeing does say though is that this deal includes a 6 year CHIP extension and it's not the shitty poison-pill-laden House Bill from last week. Which, if there's nothing else to this bill we don't yet know about, means Democrats got the hostages out and substantially improved their shot at winning the messaging war at the next clusterfuck in a few weeks. The GOP can no longer frame this as a choice between children (proper white american children in the eyes of the public, sadly) and dreamers. If Democrats gave a three week extension in exchange for long term funding of CHIP, then I'm fine with that. It is ridiculous that CHIP is even involved in all this nonsense, when both sides want CHIP funded, but whatever, expecting a functioning government under Trump is just too much to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Holding children hostage was literally McConnell's plan. It's why CHIP hasn't gotten a vote yet. If it ever came to the floor, it passes easily. But McConnell and Ryan wouldn't let it because they want to hold those hostages over the Democrat's head. Getting them out of the way in return for another fight on DACA a few weeks from now when the messaging will be less toxic is a pretty solid win overall. Especially in the face of how bad the media spin was on the current shutdown and how fully the press had swallowed the Republican line from anything I was reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 45 minutes ago, Mexal said: In other news that is probably more important, PA Supreme Court orders new congressional maps. I'm with you on this one. Fuck the shutdown theatrics, Dems just won 4-6 House seats. Also, Montana just became the first state to officially ditch the net neutrality repeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I think the Dems were ahead in messaging. No one was buying that the Republicans and Trump, more importantly, were not to blame. just this morning all i saw was Trump getting slammed for waffling and a lack of leadership. CHIP was always going to get funded, they played right into Republican hands. They demoralized an energized base, they handed McConnell, Ryan, and Trump a win. There is no reason to think they will be more resilient in a few weeks, Republicans act in bad faith and Schumer has not proven himself to be shrewd enough to actually get anything from them. Threating a second shutdown in a few weeks will play much worse for Democrats, “Mitch McConnell is a liar” won’t be enough. Already the narrative is changing from Republican disarry, to Democrats making a stink for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Quote We don’t know everything. What we know is so dark, so disturbing. I think this could qualify as the most severe espionage scandal in American history, and yes, I include the Rosenbergs. There may be more still to come. What has been amazing to me is how little practical political impact those revelations have had. I don’t imagine that if there are even greater revelations that they will have any more impact than we’ve already had. The president’s attacks on institutions and on legality have been more blatant and less effective than I might have thought. I thought he’d be a little stealthier about this. To come right out there and denounce the FBI—that was something I did not imagine he would do. On the other hand, while he’s had some successes perverting the Department of Justice, he’s been less successful at interfering with the work of the FBI than I might have feared. He’s been less successful in corrupting the U.S. attorney’s offices as well. David Frum Is Still a Republican. But … How Trump’s presidency has changed the longtime conservative. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/david-frum-on-how-trumpism-has-changed-him.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 The opposition to Obama was primarily a racialized hysteria justified on spurious procedural grounds that have since been discarded. Quote The noise and frenzy of opposition obscured the scale of what Obama was able to build. In the brutal contrast, Trump’s presidency has shown us what a successful presidency with enduring achievements really looks like. Trump Hasn’t Destroyed Obama’s Legacy. He’s Revealed How Impressive It Was. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/trump-hasnt-destroyed-obamas-legacy.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Quote But Miller is only an adviser, with limited clout. Kelly, as chief of staff, controls the flow of information to Trump. The shutdown drama makes clear that he, in fact, is the most powerful anti-immigration force in the White House, having sidelined the bipartisan deal on the budget and immigration that Graham and Democratic Senator Dick Durbin had negotiated. “Kelly is emerging from his usual behind-the-scenes role to become one of the president’s chief conservative anchors on the immigration issue, a spot once occupied by former chief strategist Steve Bannon,” The Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday Will the Real President Please Stand Up? The government shutdown shows just how powerful John Kelly has become—and how he's bringing chaos, not order, to the White House. https://newrepublic.com/article/146694/will-real-president-please-stand-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 23 hours ago, Martell Spy said: The opposition to Obama was primarily a racialized hysteria justified on spurious procedural grounds that have since been discarded. Trump Hasn’t Destroyed Obama’s Legacy. He’s Revealed How Impressive It Was. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/trump-hasnt-destroyed-obamas-legacy.html The conservative clown crew: 1. Elect Dubya into office. 2. Then sit around stroking their chins saying, “Oh yes Obama!” 3. Then elect Donald Trump. 4. Then expect everyone else not to regard them as being clowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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