Cricket: ODIs Aren’t Proper Cricket Edition

[Paxter]

51 minutes ago, Raja said:

Do we see Smith losing the captaincy permanently? 

If he doesn’t, Australian cricket will lose even more fans. It’s also possible that he and Warner will face an extended ban from the game.

Congrats to South Africa on the win - richly deserved. 

[Yukle]

Let's not forget that they picked the worst possible time to have turned people off cricket: CA is negotiating new TV and sponsorship contracts.

This scandal has cost them so much bargaining power. I cannot understand why they haven't sacked Smith completely. None of this, "Stood down for the rest of the test," rubbish.

[Yukle]

And to keep complaining: the Poms accused Australia of ball tampering with sugar in their pockets during the Ashes. Perhaps it's time to revisit that.

[Jeor]

Good match for Morkel, he takes 300 Test wickets with a vintage bowling performance. Massive collapse (not surprising in a way) and a crushing victory for South Africa.

Smith and Warner have to be blacklisted from ever having the captaincy again. I would also suggest the Cricket Australia will need to give them fairly lengthy bans. There isn't really much precedent for this for a national board to suspend players (the spot-fixing / match-fixing stuff is a little different) but given the premeditation and the decision to include a younger player in the conspiracy, I'd think the ban for Smith would have to be at least 12 months. Given the outrage in Australia anything less would be viewed as a slap on the wrist.

The real question is what happens to the "leadership group" that Smith dumped in it. Supposedly it is Lyon, Starc and Hazlewood. Plus what about Lehmann? Handscomb and Bancroft, two new players, should probably get off lightly. The integrity unit investigation will no doubt be interested in looking at all the conversations that happened.

EDIT: And let's not forget that Smith was the face of the players group that held up Cricket Australia for more money. There was that big pay dispute and the players basically ended up getting everything they wanted. They might have the money now, but Cricket Australia have more than enough ammo to turn the screws on them in every other conceivable way now.

[Paxter]

11 minutes ago, Jeor said:

Good match for Morkel, he takes 300 Test wickets with a vintage bowling performance. Massive collapse (not surprising in a way) and a crushing victory for South Africa.

Smith and Warner have to be blacklisted from ever having the captaincy again. I would also suggest the Cricket Australia will need to give them fairly lengthy bans. There isn't really much precedent for this for a national board to suspend players (the spot-fixing / match-fixing stuff is a little different) but given the premeditation and the decision to include a younger player in the conspiracy, I'd think the ban for Smith would have to be at least 12 months. Given the outrage in Australia anything less would be viewed as a slap on the wrist.

The real question is what happens to the "leadership group" that Smith dumped in it. Supposedly it is Lyon, Starc and Hazlewood. Plus what about Lehmann? Handscomb and Bancroft, two new players, should probably get off lightly. The integrity unit investigation will no doubt be interested in looking at all the conversations that happened.

EDIT: And let's not forget that Smith was the face of the players group that held up Cricket Australia for more money. There was that big pay dispute and the players basically ended up getting everything they wanted. They might have the money now, but Cricket Australia have more than enough ammo to turn the screws on them in every other conceivable way now.

On the leadership group: it has since emerged that it wasn’t the “leadership group” who made the decision - it was a group of “senior players” (not including the coach, though I think his head will roll). I assume senior players comprises Smith and Warner at a minimum.

And yes, it’s looking like lengthy bans plus being stripped of leadership positions will be the order of the day. 

[Jeor]

3 minutes ago, Paxter said:

On the leadership group: it has since emerged that it wasn’t the “leadership group” who made the decision - it was a group of “senior players” (not including the coach, though I think his head will roll). I assume senior players comprises Smith and Warner at a minimum.

Senior players won't be thanking Smith for dumping them in it. The trick is figuring out how to punish players who were involved in the conversations and did nothing to stop it. It's a lesser crime, but still a punishable one given the gravity of the offence itself.

I'm assuming all players have clauses in their contracts about misconduct such that Cricket Australia could easily suspend Smith without pay too, which will probably hurt more especially if they ban him for a lengthy period of time.

[Paxter]

I agree - it’s definitely punishable (tantamount to being an accessory before the fact, or after the fact in the case of Lehmann). It will be very interesting to discover who else was involved, and whether any evidence arises of this not being an isolated event.

It will also be interesting to see if Bancroft actually plays in Johannesburg. He could potentially face some sort of CA ban. Handscomb and a few other reinforcements will likely feature in the next test.

[Jeor]

I think Bancroft ought to be banned at least for the last Test. Obviously he's a patsy for Smith but the fact that he was the guy that actually went and did the act still has to count for something.

I thought Michael Holding had a good quote when he was saying how Smith tried to explain that it didn't work anyway because the umpires changed the ball. "It's as if I had a gun and shot at you, and then said - I missed, so let's forget all about it, nothing to see here."

[williamjm]

13 minutes ago, Jeor said:

I think Bancroft ought to be banned at least for the last Test. Obviously he's a patsy for Smith but the fact that he was the guy that actually went and did the act still has to count for something.

I agree, while I think Smith does bear the most responsibility, Bancroft should still take his share of the blame. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to cheat.

[Hereward]

I have no sympathy for Bancroft. What he did to Jonny Bairstow, as naive as Bairstow was, and the gloating and intentionally humiliating press conference with that twat Smit, show he’s a keen disciple of deeply unpleasant cricket behaviour. I doubt he needed much persuading in this instance. 

[Yukle]

This doesn't feel like their first time cheating, it feels like the first time they were caught cheating. Perhaps it's the most inexperienced player was also the worst at covering it up, and perhaps the senior players have been doing this all along. Bancroft in particular is a scumbag.

For instance, there is already existing footage of Bancroft filling his pockets with sugar during the Ashes. It can be used to either rough up the ball, or to give him sticky saliva to shine it.

Literally everyone involved ought to have life bans. Smith included - and especially. It's not their team to ruin, it's everyone's to cherish. Otherwise, the message is that it's okay to cheat. And I'll bet they're all going to get the usual book deals and media gigs after retirement, so if anything they'll make more money than normal from this disgraceful exhibition of cheating.

[Paxter]

Fair call Hereward. I think the ICC probably got that one wrong (fine only), but I’m confident that he won’t play at the Wanderers anyway following CA sanctions. 

[williamjm]

 

34 minutes ago, Yukle said:

For instance, there is already existing footage of Bancroft filling his pockets with sugar during the Ashes. It can be used to either rough up the ball, or to give him sticky saliva to shine it.

The old David Warner quotes in that with him being sanctimonious about the Du Plessis controversy are amusingly ironic now.

By the way, this link is the second time I've seem an article bringing up the South Africans wearing Sonny Bill Williams masks as a calculated insult. I'm guessing the explanation of why that is provocative is so obvious to an Australian audience that there's no point explaining it, but I've no idea what the relevance is.

Literally everyone involved ought to have life bans. Smith included - and especially. It's not their team to ruin, it's everyone's to cherish

I think the ICC bans do seem too lenient. I wouldn't say a lifetime ban given the precedent of what bans other players have faced in the past (I'd never argue Smith has done more damage to cricket that Salman Butt did, for example) but I think something significantly more lengthy than a single match would seem more appropriate.

[The BlackBear]

18 minutes ago, williamjm said:

By the way, this link is the second time I've seem an article bringing up the South Africans wearing Sonny Bill Williams masks as a calculated insult. I'm guessing the explanation of why that is provocative is so obvious to an Australian audience that there's no point explaining it, but I've no idea what the relevance is.

Looked it up, because I didn't know either. Apparently back in 2007 Candice Warner (then Falzon) had a 'toilet tryst' with Sonny Bill, that was captured in a photograph. Understandably a sore spot for Warner.

[Paxter]

24 minutes ago, williamjm said:

 

The old David Warner quotes in that with him being sanctimonious about the Du Plessis controversy are amusingly ironic now.

By the way, this link is the second time I've seem an article bringing up the South Africans wearing Sonny Bill Williams masks as a calculated insult. I'm guessing the explanation of why that is provocative is so obvious to an Australian audience that there's no point explaining it, but I've no idea what the relevance is.

SBW is a relatively well-known rugby league player who had sex with Warner’s wife (a former Ironwoman) in a public bathroom over ten years ago.

[williamjm]

2 minutes ago, Paxter said:

SBW is a relatively well-known rugby league player who had sex with Warner’s wife (a former Ironwoman) in a public bathroom over ten years ago.

Thanks for the explanation. I know who SBW is (mainly from his Rugby Union career), but was struggling to see how a Kiwi rugby player fitted in to cricketing controversy.

I think Warner is justified in being annoyed at this objectionable taunting and I wish cricket fans didn't perpetrate this sort of idiocy, but his outrage might have more impact if I thought he would be equally outraged if Australian fans were doing similar taunting of an opposition player.

[Paxter]

6 minutes ago, williamjm said:

Thanks for the explanation. I know who SBW is (mainly from his Rugby Union career), but was struggling to see how a Kiwi rugby player fitted in to cricketing controversy.

I think Warner is justified in being annoyed at this objectionable taunting and I wish cricket fans didn't perpetrate this sort of idiocy, but his outrage might have more impact if I thought he would be equally outraged if Australian fans were doing similar taunting of an opposition player.

Precisely. There are far too many hypocrites within the Australian ranks (both players and fans) for these criticisms to be made with moral high ground. 

[Paxter]

Back to the cricket...this is the key partnership for NZ to break. Once they get past Stokes and Bairstow, they will have a good chance to wrap up the game quite quickly. England do bat deep though, I wish KW had declared earlier.

[The Anti-Targ]

I think the problem goes deeper than Smith and Warner. You have to wonder what is going on in professional sports when senior people decide that blatant cheating is a good option. A decision by Smith to ball tamper doesn't just happen because he has a moment of temporary insanity. This is a decision that arises from a sporting culture that values winning and only winning, and does not value sportsmanship, fair play, and respect.

People act all shocked and outraged, but really this sort of thing is predictable.

It's almost getting to the stage where pro-wrestling is the most respectable sport, because everyone knows the winner is predetermined and the entertainment is all about the performance, not the outcome. It's honest about what it is least. And since the matches are already fixed, you can't even engage in match fixing for sports betting purposes.

Anyhoo, England 6 down. Unlikely they will be trying to get past the NZ total. So the question is whether they can turtle up and protect those last 4 wickets.

[Paxter]

I have a bad feeling that England are going to hold on. Why are we playing tests in NZ in late March! 

Spot on about a culture that only values winning @The Anti-Targ