Video Games: It's On Like Donkey Kong

[Fez]

35 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

So I've been out of any kind of serious gaming for almost a decade now, so apologies for the dumb question, but does anyone have some recommendations for any good MMOs that are out right now?

I earned my spurs way back during the day of grindcore EQ, switched over to EQ2 for a couple of years and then ended up at WoW before I hung up my controller. I also played some LOTRO and DDO from time to time.

I'd prefer a fantasy based MMO, but wouldn't be averse to other genres. I've looked at SWTOR, but based on what I've read here, I'd rather not start investing time in something that could be shut down before too long.

Final Fantasy XIV. It's pretty much the only "all the bells and whistles" subscription MMO doing well out there besides WoW. The three big differences from WoW are:

1) You can switch between any class at any time, once you unlock them. Each one levels up independently and you have a secondary inventory, called an armory chest, that stores all the different gear you'll need for the different classes. So you have a lot more flexibility. OTOH, there are no class specs, which means there's a certain amount of sameness between classes (e.g. healers need to have DPS spells for their solo content, so other players expect them to DPS as well as heal in dungeons).

2) There is a much bigger focus on the story, and experiencing all of it (except for old endgame stuff), following the main story quest chain. There's been no reductions in XP leveling requirements over the years (other than a ring you can get that boosts XP by 30% for classes under level 30) and there's been a lot of content developed since the game rebooted. So you've probably got close to 200 hours of gameplay before you hit the endgame; you don't get to skip any of it (unless you pay SquareEnix for a story skip).

3) Group content is built into the story, and you don't get to skip it either. There's dozens of dungeons and trials (elaborate single boss fights, all are 8-player except the first three beginner ones) that you need to complete as the main story quest chain reaches them. Fortunately, there is an incentive system in place to get veteran players to run old content through the matchmaker system; so wait times for new players aren't that bad. Tanks and Healers usually don't wait at all, DPS will wait 10-30 minutes depending on time of day.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Werthead said:

WoW is still, somehow, the big guy in town, but a lot of people enjoy The Elder Scrolls Online. Guild Wars 2 I think is still active and has a strong fanbase.

Interesting to know that WoW is still kicking. I had thought about checking out Elder Scrolls but wanted at least a word of mouth recommendation first.

I played the original Guild Wars at launch and must not have been very impressed by it. I might have to check out 2 though.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

8 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Interesting to know that WoW is still kicking. I had thought about checking out Elder Scrolls but wanted at least a word of mouth recommendation first.

I played the original Guild Wars at launch and must not have been very impressed by it. I might have to check out 2 though.

GW2 was a lot of fun for the first couple of years after launch. Assuming the player base is still solid it's probably still worth looking into. It's also Buy-to-Play, so just pay once and you're done. 

Elder Scrolls Online was rushed out the door and thus had a rough start, but has apparently improved a great deal. I believe it went B2P as well.

SWTOR continues to be the game I keep coming back to. It's still got a following and to my understanding remains profitable, although with Bioware being on such shaky ground you can never tell what will happen.  I'll probably be there when they turn the lights out.  

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Fez said:

Final Fantasy XIV. It's pretty much the only "all the bells and whistles" subscription MMO doing well out there besides WoW. The three big differences from WoW are:

1) You can switch between any class at any time, once you unlock them. Each one levels up independently and you have a secondary inventory, called an armory chest, that stores all the different gear you'll need for the different classes. So you have a lot more flexibility. OTOH, there are no class specs, which means there's a certain amount of sameness between classes (e.g. healers need to have DPS spells for their solo content, so other players expect them to DPS as well as heal in dungeons).

2) There is a much bigger focus on the story, and experiencing all of it (except for old endgame stuff), following the main story quest chain. There's been no reductions in XP leveling requirements over the years (other than a ring you can get that boosts XP by 30% for classes under level 30) and there's been a lot of content developed since the game rebooted. So you've probably got close to 200 hours of gameplay before you hit the endgame; you don't get to skip any of it (unless you pay SquareEnix for a story skip).

Thanks for the breakdown. It sounds intriguing but I'm wondering about the learning curve with the class-switching you describe.

I'm used to playing dedicated classes, so do you have to learn roles and skill rotations for each class? Or is it a more generalized system that allows a dedicated class but you can switch between classes if you want?

Back in the day I was all about setting up macros (cleric CHeal chain anyone?) and reviewing parse logs from boss fights, but I find while my MMO interest is still there, my dedication has waned somewhat in the meantime.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

SWTOR continues to be the game I keep coming back to. It's still got a following and to my understanding remains profitable, although with Bioware being on such shaky ground you can never tell what will happen.  I'll probably be there when they turn the lights out.  

I've looked at SWTOR for a while, and I'm intrigued, but I'll admit I find the class system incomprehensible, mostly due to the (apparently) huge number of classes. I've always played either heals or tanks, so I'm used to one or maybe two classes being the predominant stand-out in each role, but with SWTOR it looks like there are 10 different versions of each class.

[Fez]

14 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Thanks for the breakdown. It sounds intriguing but I'm wondering about the learning curve with the class-switching you describe.

I'm used to playing dedicated classes, so do you have to learn roles and skill rotations for each class? Or is it a more generalized system that allows a dedicated class but you can switch between classes if you want?

Back in the day I was all about setting up macros (cleric CHeal chain anyone?) and reviewing parse logs from boss fights, but I find while my MMO interest is still there, my dedication has waned somewhat in the meantime.

Each class has it's own roles and rotations that you need to learn if you want to play them. But there's no need to switch unless you want to, you can easily just play one class the entire time. Also, since each class levels separately, if you switch to a new one you start at level 1 (except for 5 that unlock later, 3 at level 30 and 2 at level 50) and be learning from the ground up (you unlock new abilities as you level up) rather than being thrown a ton of new mechanics at once.

Also, there is some overlap; the three tank classes play extremely similarly, as do two of the three healer classes. I don't play much DPS, but there's 4 melee DPS, 2 physical ranged DPS, and 4 magical ranged DPS; I believe there's some overlap between types of classes. 

And actually, it's generally recommended to only seriously level one or two classes at first, the main story quests give enough XP to level one class and the side quests give enough XP to level a second class. But every other class will have to grind it out; there are weekly bonuses you can hit (e.g. run three dungeons) to help with it, but it's still a grind.

Most of the content is fairly easy if you've played an MMO before; especially since, even though veteran player's stats are scaled down when they run old content they are still more powerful than new players, so there's more margin for error. There is some really tough endgame content, but almost nothing along the way is like that; and there's also easier endgame content too.

 

As for other MMOs, WoW is still out there doing its thing and is just fine. I put a bunch of hours into Legion, the expansion that is just about over, and had fun for a while. I ended up stopping though because once I hit endgame (which happened pretty fast) the only content left to run was the same series of dungeons and raids on harder and harder difficulties to get better gear. That's certainly a big part of FFXIV's endgame too (the gear treadmill is what MMOs run on), but there's more variety in how to get that gear. A wider range of dungeons and raids to play; also there's crafting, it's meaningful in this game and has a whole separate class system to level up; and there's more minigame diversions.

I only played a few hours of Elder Scrolls Online, but I didn't like it as much. The way the stat system is setup, I had no conception of how powerful I was and got no satisfaction from leveling up; which was a big problem for me. I also didn't like the limited ability system (it's like Guild Wars, where you only have a handful of abilities you can use at a time), I prefer WoW and FFXIV's systems where you have many, many abilities, some of which are only extremely situational.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

22 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I've looked at SWTOR for a while, and I'm intrigued, but I'll admit I find the class system incomprehensible, mostly due to the (apparently) huge number of classes. I've always played either heals or tanks, so I'm used to one or maybe two classes being the predominant stand-out in each role, but with SWTOR it looks like there are 10 different versions of each class.

Each class has a mirror version for the other faction, so practically speaking there are only 8 playstyles (4 class archetypes x 2 advanced classes per). Jedi Knight = Sith Warrior, Republic Trooper = Bounty Hunter, and so on. Abilities across factions look different and have different animations, but for all intents and purposes play out the same way. It may seem daunting at first, but in practice it's not that complicated. 

If you're curious I can provide more info or point you to a resource (Dulfy.net is probably the best and most thorough, the WoWHead of SWTOR if you will). 

[Yukle]

10 hours ago, Inigima said:

The original Jordan Mechner one?

YES!

I remember that I used to be able to finish it in one life with about twenty minutes to spare. If I ignored lots of the big potions that give you permanent health buffs I would die a few times but do it with about twenty-five to spare.

I was playing it last night and died about 100 times fighting that big fat guy, who I couldn't get to fall down the hole. I also kept miss-timing at the chomper thingies. There's that one guard who also has a near flawless fighting style in level 11 or 12 (not Jaffar) who kept murdering me.

I am going to try to find PoP2, which I never actually finished. I kept getting minced by the scary floating heads, or wasting time on the completely hilarious death from when you fall in lava and he goes, "WWWWAAAAOOOOO!"

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Fez said:

Each class has it's own roles and rotations that you need to learn if you want to play them. But there's no need to switch unless you want to, you can easily just play one class the entire time. Also, since each class levels separately, if you switch to a new one you start at level 1 (except for 5 that unlock later, 3 at level 30 and 2 at level 50) and be learning from the ground up (you unlock new abilities as you level up) rather than being thrown a ton of new mechanics at once.

Also, there is some overlap; the three tank classes play extremely similarly, as do two of the three healer classes. I don't play much DPS, but there's 4 melee DPS, 2 physical ranged DPS, and 4 magical ranged DPS; I believe there's some overlap between types of classes. 

And actually, it's generally recommended to only seriously level one or two classes at first, the main story quests give enough XP to level one class and the side quests give enough XP to level a second class. But every other class will have to grind it out; there are weekly bonuses you can hit (e.g. run three dungeons) to help with it, but it's still a grind.

Most of the content is fairly easy if you've played an MMO before; especially since, even though veteran player's stats are scaled down when they run old content they are still more powerful than new players, so there's more margin for error. There is some really tough endgame content, but almost nothing along the way is like that; and there's also easier endgame content too.

That actually sounds pretty cool. I figured I'd probably avoid FFXIV because of the negative word of mouth I remember from the release of FFXI way back when (is that game still running? Is FFXIV related to it like EQ & EQ2?), but I will probably check it out now. Last dumb question: is it a console-only game or is it available on PC? I prefer playing MMOs on the PC, but it looks like in the decade I've been out lots of stuff has moved to console.

I liked WoW back when I played it, but I can't find the desire to pick it back up. I'll have to admit though, I loved AoE tanking with my pally.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

Each class has a mirror version for the other faction, so practically speaking there are only 8 playstyles (4 class archetypes x 2 advanced classes per). Jedi Knight = Sith Warrior, Republic Trooper = Bounty Hunter, and so on. Abilities across factions look different and have different animations, but for all intents and purposes play out the same way. It may seem daunting at first, but in practice it's not that complicated. 

If you're curious I can provide more info or point you to a resource (Dulfy.net is probably the best and most thorough, the WoWHead of SWTOR if you will). 

Yeah I'm curious. I know there is a limited FTP system. Does that allow enough to get a feel of the different aspects of the game, like soloing and grouping?

How does the faction system play out? EQ2 had a faction system, but it didn't really have any gameplay aspects. You could group and guild between factions. I'm guessing with SWTOR it's pretty rigid?

[Fez]

6 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

That actually sounds pretty cool. I figured I'd probably avoid FFXIV because of the negative word of mouth I remember from the release of FFXI way back when (is that game still running? Is FFXIV related to it like EQ & EQ2?), but I will probably check it out now. Last dumb question: is it a console-only game or is it available on PC? I prefer playing MMOs on the PC, but it looks like in the decade I've been out lots of stuff has moved to console.

I liked WoW back when I played it, but I can't find the desire to pick it back up. I'll have to admit though, I loved AoE tanking with my pally.

It's unrelated to FFXI. I never played that, I believe it's still up. I don't think it ever got panned that badly though; except for that 11 hour boss fight that once players figured out how to beat it, the devs cried "no fair" and changed how it works to prevent that from happening again.

What did get extremely negative word of mouth was the first iteration of FFXIV; it was horrible when it launched. SquareEnix ended up firing everyone and bring in a whole new team to rework everything. It relaunched two years later (which is why the base version of FFXIV is called A Realm Reborn and is referred to as 2.0 in patch notes) to much greater acclaim and has had two successful expansions since then.

It's on PC and PS4, but is primarily a PC game I think. There is controller support for PC as well, but I tried it and it seemed nearly impossible. I think most PS4 players use keyboards.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

17 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Yeah I'm curious. I know there is a limited FTP system. Does that allow enough to get a feel of the different aspects of the game, like soloing and grouping?

How does the faction system play out? EQ2 had a faction system, but it didn't really have any gameplay aspects. You could group and guild between factions. I'm guessing with SWTOR it's pretty rigid?

FTP is very limited; there are a lot of restrictions, and the mode has been heavily criticized ever since they introduced it. Offhand, I don't remember what all of them are, but I'm certain there are limits on high level gear, PVE / PVP participation and a reduced level cap. In my opinion it's worth it to buy a short term subscription (i.e. 1 month) if all you're looking for is to get a feel for the game. You'll get a much more accurate read that way. 

Factions in SWTOR are fairly rigid, no cross-faction grouping or guilds, although you can send mail cross-faction between alts, which is really nice. The "auction house" (Galactic Trade Network or GTN) is cross-faction as well. 

Opinions vary, but in my view the class stories are where the game really shines. Most of them are superb (Jedi Consular is about the only one I found disappointing).  

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Fez said:

It's unrelated to FFXI. I never played that, I believe it's still up. I don't think it ever got panned that badly though; except for that 11 hour boss fight that once players figured out how to beat it, the devs cried "no fair" and changed how it works to prevent that from happening again.

You're probably right. I was raiding endgame EQ at the time and I can't really recall anything specific about why the people I talked to didn't like it, so it may just be a case of different strokes. I do remember some people complaining about a big problem with bot toons, but that's about it.

Glad it's on PC. I'll have to pick it up in the next couple of weeks.

[Derfel Cadarn]

26 minutes ago, Fez said:

It's unrelated to FFXI. I never played that, I believe it's still up. I don't think it ever got panned that badly though; except for that 11 hour boss fight that once players figured out how to beat it, the devs cried "no fair" and changed how it works to prevent that from happening again.

What did get extremely negative word of mouth was the first iteration of FFXIV; it was horrible when it launched. SquareEnix ended up firing everyone and bring in a whole new team to rework everything. It relaunched two years later (which is why the base version of FFXIV is called A Realm Reborn and is referred to as 2.0 in patch notes) to much greater acclaim and has had two successful expansions since then.

It's on PC and PS4, but is primarily a PC game I think. There is controller support for PC as well, but I tried it and it seemed nearly impossible. I think most PS4 players use keyboards.

What's great is unlike most cross-platform mmo's, ffxiv lets you use your characters on both PC and console.  I rarely play my pc now, but I can play my account on my PS4 (so long as the game is bought).

[Jace, Extat]

Elder Scrolls Online is fucking garbage.

[GallowKnight]

1 hour ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

FTP is very limited; there are a lot of restrictions, and the mode has been heavily criticized ever since they introduced it. Offhand, I don't remember what all of them are, but I'm certain there are limits on high level gear, PVE / PVP participation and a reduced level cap. In my opinion it's worth it to buy a short term subscription (i.e. 1 month) if all you're looking for is to get a feel for the game. You'll get a much more accurate read that way.

I think the FTP limits are slower levelling, limits on the high end gear (the purple stuff), only three available races, limited number of character slots, credit cap at 250 000, mounts become available later, limited participation for PVP and Operations and a whole bunch of smaller things being unavailable like titles, companion customization and so on.

[Inigima]

Elder Scrolls Online is a decent game as a single-player MMO-style game that happens to have other people in it. For group play, which is mainly why I like MMOs, it falls a bit flat.

 

12 hours ago, Yukle said:

YES!

I remember that I used to be able to finish it in one life with about twenty minutes to spare. If I ignored lots of the big potions that give you permanent health buffs I would die a few times but do it with about twenty-five to spare.

I was playing it last night and died about 100 times fighting that big fat guy, who I couldn't get to fall down the hole. I also kept miss-timing at the chomper thingies. There's that one guard who also has a near flawless fighting style in level 11 or 12 (not Jaffar) who kept murdering me.

I am going to try to find PoP2, which I never actually finished. I kept getting minced by the scary floating heads, or wasting time on the completely hilarious death from when you fall in lava and he goes, "WWWWAAAAOOOOO!"

Niiiiiiiiiiiice. I loved that game. I wasn't great at it, though, and never beat it. Didn't realize how close I was, I think I got to level 11 consistently after a while. I haven't played it since I was a kid, maybe I could beat it now.

[Magnar of Skagos]

I have really been getting into Crusader Kings 2 lately. Game has been practically eating up my life so I've had to take a short break. Really is an incredibly fun game. Current campaign as the Grand Chief of Saxony in the Charlemagne DLC. Managed to subjugate all of Denmark and some sparse counties around the Baltic, as well as taking over all of Pomerania and taking bits of Poland. I feel like such a god.

[Fez]

I've sucked back into Overwatch the past couple weeks; as happens every six months or so. I think I'm just about done again though. The problem is that once I get back up to speed at playing, I start getting really frustrated at how bad most players are. My aim isn't that great, so I'd never hold that against someone; but the sheer number of people who seem completely unaware of map objectives and lack all situational awareness is astounding. And I don't like being frustrated by games, so each time I start getting like this I stop playing again for a while.

Ironically though, I picked up Dark Souls 3 last night in the current steam sale; but that's a different kind of frustration; since its just me and the game, not internet strangers. So far I've beaten the first boss, it only took around a dozen tries, and that's about it.

[Leo of House Cartel]

Anyone recommend the new Assassin's Creed game? Played the series up 'till Rogue then drifted away. Origins looks great but I've heard mixed reviews.