How different was the wait between AFFC and ADWD?

[Joy Hill]

It's been a while since we had any news about the progress of TWOW. However, between AFFC and ADWD, GRRM gave much more frequent updates to fans.

How did those updates affect the wait? Did they feed discussions and speculations? Did they quench impatience?

 

[divica]

I think there were several expected release dates. Is that true?

[Joy Hill]

All I know is that ADWD was supposed to come out a year after AFFC 

[Lucius Lovejoy]

Great topic, definitely needs more responses.  Please veterans of ASOIAF who are still on the forum, share with us your stories of what the wait was like and if it was as hopeless as it seems now, and what may have been different from a communication standpoint.  I only first read the series after ADWD was released.

[Universal Sword Donor]

There wasn't nearly as much side material to read nor GRRM at conferences and whatnot. As much as I love AWOIAF, the novellas, and the show that accompanied/preceded ADWD, I'd love to get the final books. Hell even an outline with madlib lines. Actually that would be fucking sweet

[Gertrude]

I'm not sure how to compare them. I think the wait for DWD primed me for this wait. Yes, there was supposed to be a year between FFC/DWD and knowing that made the wait more tense. I don't actually remember my state of mind, but I felt a lot more disappointment through that wait. Expectations set and not met, etc. I much prefer the minimal info approach. One day, I'll just be pleasantly surprised rather than read about people comparing the number of pages written and how many pages that translates into for a book vs draft and how many words per month he's writing and projected dates based on that and ... you get the idea. And the Meerenese Knot, oh god that fucking knot.

I think the show is filling a hole. No matter how you feel about it, it's something to talk about and keep you invested.

[SuperMario]

I was more excited during the wait between Feast and Dance. Even though ADWD came out years after he originally announced it would, the fact that he would periodically post comments about the status of the book let me knew he was at least interested in and writing the book. Despite the issues and frustrations he was running into writing it, I knew it at least commanded his time.

With the wait between ADWD and TWOW I have pretty much lost all excitement. The lack of updates on the status of Winds in conjunction with his many, many, many side projects has all but killed any excitement I have for the series anymore. It's his life and his time, but overall, my excitement level has dropped precipitously.

And on a more global scale, I would say fans are much more impatient between Dance and Winds than they were between Feast and Dance. One, it's more of a global hit now due to the show's popularity. And two, back to one of my earlier points. GRRM's refusal to talk about the progress, and admonish some fans who have brought it up, has caused a fury among some fans.

[Joy Hill]

11 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

There wasn't nearly as much side material to read nor GRRM at conferences and whatnot. As much as I love AWOIAF, the novellas, and the show that accompanied/preceded ADWD, I'd love to get the final books. Hell even an outline with madlib lines. Actually that would be fucking sweet

Personally, I think it might not be a terrible idea to release a short book about the battle of Meereen and the battle of Winterfell.

10 hours ago, Gertrude said:

I'm not sure how to compare them. I think the wait for DWD primed me for this wait. Yes, there was supposed to be a year between FFC/DWD and knowing that made the wait more tense. I don't actually remember my state of mind, but I felt a lot more disappointment through that wait. Expectations set and not met, etc. I much prefer the minimal info approach. One day, I'll just be pleasantly surprised rather than read about people comparing the number of pages written and how many pages that translates into for a book vs draft and how many words per month he's writing and projected dates based on that and ... you get the idea. And the Meerenese Knot, oh god that fucking knot.

I think the show is filling a hole. No matter how you feel about it, it's something to talk about and keep you invested.

I still don't really understand why the Meerenese knot happened.

3 hours ago, SuperMario said:

I was more excited during the wait between Feast and Dance. Even though ADWD came out years after he originally announced it would, the fact that he would periodically post comments about the status of the book let me knew he was at least interested in and writing the book. Despite the issues and frustrations he was running into writing it, I knew it at least commanded his time.

With the wait between ADWD and TWOW I have pretty much lost all excitement. The lack of updates on the status of Winds in conjunction with his many, many, many side projects has all but killed any excitement I have for the series anymore. It's his life and his time, but overall, my excitement level has dropped precipitously.

And on a more global scale, I would say fans are much more impatient between Dance and Winds than they were between Feast and Dance. One, it's more of a global hit now due to the show's popularity. And two, back to one of my earlier points. GRRM's refusal to talk about the progress, and admonish some fans who have brought it up, has caused a fury among some fans.

Yeah. In his notablog posts between AFFC and ADWD, you can still feel that GRRM's heart is still into the books. Now, the total silence, the admonishment of anyone who brings up the books, and the fact that he's willing to get invested in the prequel projects seem to indicate that he has lost all enthusiasm for ASOIAF.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

Thanks @Universal Sword Donor, @Gertrude, and @Super Mario for your perspective.  I started watching the show in 2014 and followed with the books not long after, but prior to becoming a fan I used to tease my friends who were into the series by saying how from the outside it was clearly obvious that GRRM was going to use his newfound celebrity to do whatever he pleased (as he should) and clearly wasn't interested in continuing to write a story whose basic narrative and outcome he has known for 20 years.  Now as a fan it is sooo frustrating - anything he does that doesn't involve writing TWOW seems to announce he doesn't enjoy it anymore.  He doesn't owe the fans anything, but if his heart isn't in it I'd almost prefer he just tell us that and give up, and tell the outcome of the story through interviews and narrative summary.

[Joy Hill]

49 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

Thanks @Universal Sword Donor, @Gertrude, and @Super Mario for your perspective.  I started watching the show in 2014 and followed with the books not long after, but prior to becoming a fan I used to tease my friends who were into the series by saying how from the outside it was clearly obvious that GRRM was going to use his newfound celebrity to do whatever he pleased (as he should) and clearly wasn't interested in continuing to write a story whose basic narrative and outcome he has known for 20 years.  Now as a fan it is sooo frustrating - anything he does that doesn't involve writing TWOW seems to announce he doesn't enjoy it anymore.  He doesn't owe the fans anything, but if his heart isn't in it I'd almost prefer he just tell us that and give up, and tell the outcome of the story through interviews and narrative summary.

I understand that he works in projects that he's been involved with for a long time, but I can't understand why he takes on new jobs.

[Lady Anna]

Good topic. I read the books in 2010 so I didn't need to wait long, but - from the opinions on another forum I used to frequent - a lot of fans were angry about the wait, because it was supposed to come out right after Feast, and because all deadlines after that didn't happen. Interestingly i think a lot of people didn't like Martin's updates on his blog because it raised expectations about the book's release - sometimes they made it seem like it was close to being finished but that never materialized.

Today i think people are less angry about the wait. But more people have also lost interest and excitement imo, for more or less obvious reasons.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Back when we waited for ADWD, there was actually the feeling of hope. Now, less and less. But at least we can sleep assured that some fascinating stuff is going on at the Jean Cocteau Cinema, and we'll get to see "Who Fears Death", produced by GRRM, on HBO, and the "Night Flyers", and let's not forget the "Wild Cards", beloved and anxiously awaited by all.

So we have all that for consolation. The whole thing is quite hopeless, so it’s no good worrying about tomorrow. It probably won’t come.

[divica]

21 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Back when we waited for ADWD, there was actually the feeling of hope. Now, less and less. But at least we can sleep assured that some fascinating stuff is going on at the Jean Cocteau Cinema, and we'll get to see "Who Fears Death", produced by GRRM, on HBO, and the "Night Flyers", and let's not forget the "Wild Cards", beloved and anxiously awaited by all.

So we have all that for consolation. The whole thing is quite hopeless, so it’s no good worrying about tomorrow. It probably won’t come.

Are there really people that like wild cards? I think it is almost a badge of honnor for any asoiaf fan to hate wild cards...

[Universal Sword Donor]

24 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Back when we waited for ADWD, there was actually the feeling of hope. Now, less and less. But at least we can sleep assured that some fascinating stuff is going on at the Jean Cocteau Cinema, and we'll get to see "Who Fears Death", produced by GRRM, on HBO, and the "Night Flyers", and let's not forget the "Wild Cards", beloved and anxiously awaited by all.

So we have all that for consolation. The whole thing is quite hopeless, so it’s no good worrying about tomorrow. It probably won’t come.

*Looks around*

I agree

*runs away*

[divica]

2 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

I still don't really understand why the Meerenese knot happened.

Meereen had quite awkward things.

Like how many people are attacking and defending the city? And where are the elephants?

[Pride of Driftmark]

As a relatively new fan of George (just over four years), I can't feel anything but crushing disappointment. I'm still hopeful of course, and am fully aware of my insignificant role in the artist-audience relationship. My biggest fear is that when Winds is released, it will be another Dance, more expansion and less contraction, with a Winterfell, Vaes Dothrak, Oldtown, and Skagos knot to unravel in ADoS. 

[Damon_Tor]

5 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

Yeah. In his notablog posts between AFFC and ADWD, you can still feel that GRRM's heart is still into the books. Now, the total silence, the admonishment of anyone who brings up the books, and the fact that he's willing to get invested in the prequel projects seem to indicate that he has lost all enthusiasm for ASOIAF.

My best guess: he feels like a sellout. It would be hard not to. Everywhere he goes he sees his characters reduced to vinyl bobbleheads and collectible mugs. This from a man who, by all appearances, hates capitalism and materialism. I can't imagine the angst.

[Yukle]

17 hours ago, Gertrude said:

I think the show is filling a hole. No matter how you feel about it, it's something to talk about and keep you invested.

I wish it wasn't true, but it is. I didn't like either of the past two seasons of GoT, the most recent was particularly awful. But I can't help it; even though I know that it's poor fan-fiction, I must admit to myself that it feels better than nothing.

5 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Back when we waited for ADWD, there was actually the feeling of hope. Now, less and less. But at least we can sleep assured that some fascinating stuff is going on at the Jean Cocteau Cinema, and we'll get to see "Who Fears Death", produced by GRRM, on HBO, and the "Night Flyers", and let's not forget the "Wild Cards", beloved and anxiously awaited by all.

I began reading the series just after the release of aFFC, so it's the only wait I've had to endure until this one. It was nice to read in the epilogue that there would be a short wait (especially since "next year" had only a few months left by the time I had read it). Then the wait dragged on... and on...

I also felt more hopeful, but not so much because of anything GRRM did, but simply my own enthusiasm. I loved the books, so I reread them. The show had only just started and it was top-notch at first, so that was a refreshing take on the series. aFFC was also disappointing to me, as it felt that all of the central protagonists were missing. When I finally got to read aDwD, it felt as though so much was repaired and forgiven.

When World of Ice and Fire came out, I read and re-read it, and felt like I could endure the wait again... but it's hard. You'll note how the boards of this thread - which is the most die-hard online aSoIaF fan community there is - have fewer and fewer contributions from long-term members. I emphathise with this. There are only so many times anyone can discuss the same thing again and again, only so much enthusiasm anyone can maintain before they have picked over the material so many times it is beginning to lose its fun.

Maybe it's also just changing interests. This time ten years ago, I was completely obsessed with Batman and Star Wars. Now, I've found my tastes and interests are changing, just as they always have throughout my life. Harry Potter is the only obsession I've kept since childhood. I reread the Lord of the Rings, and loved it when I only thought it was kind of cool when I was younger. Studying history, sociology and anthropology meant that I now read non-fiction much more than fiction.

I've also had two kids, and just don't have time to reread methodically as I used to. And since passion is fed by sharing, I can share Harry Potter with my kids, who are much too young for aSoIaF, and this keeps me engaged and loving it (the books that is, I detest the films).

This wait between books is so much harder than the last simply because I'm changing - just as much as everyone else on Earth - and huge emotional investments in this series are not as strong as they once were. That's not to say that I don't like the series, I certainly do, just that I've had diminishing passion and enthusiasm. I'd like to think that the release of tWoW will reverse this, but it would be naive to think that I will have the same obsession that I once did.

The last time we had to wait, I was impatient - but in a good way. I was anticipating what was coming. Now, it's less intense. I'm just sad not to have read on, but I won't feel heartbroken if I never get to. It's as though I've had closure already, and that the fate of Westeros was simply never settled and decided.

[divica]

29 minutes ago, Yukle said:

I wish it wasn't true, but it is. I didn't like either of the past two seasons of GoT, the most recent was particularly awful. But I can't help it; even though I know that it's poor fan-fiction, I must admit to myself that it feels better than nothing.

I began reading the series just after the release of aFFC, so it's the only wait I've had to endure until this one. It was nice to read in the epilogue that there would be a short wait (especially since "next year" had only a few months left by the time I had read it). Then the wait dragged on... and on...

I also felt more hopeful, but not so much because of anything GRRM did, but simply my own enthusiasm. I loved the books, so I reread them. The show had only just started and it was top-notch at first, so that was a refreshing take on the series. aFFC was also disappointing to me, as it felt that all of the central protagonists were missing. When I finally got to read aDwD, it felt as though so much was repaired and forgiven.

When World of Ice and Fire came out, I read and re-read it, and felt like I could endure the wait again... but it's hard. You'll note how the boards of this thread - which is the most die-hard online aSoIaF fan community there is - have fewer and fewer contributions from long-term members. I emphathise with this. There are only so many times anyone can discuss the same thing again and again, only so much enthusiasm anyone can maintain before they have picked over the material so many times it is beginning to lose its fun.

Maybe it's also just changing interests. This time ten years ago, I was completely obsessed with Batman and Star Wars. Now, I've found my tastes and interests are changing, just as they always have throughout my life. Harry Potter is the only obsession I've kept since childhood. I reread the Lord of the Rings, and loved it when I only thought it was kind of cool when I was younger. Studying history, sociology and anthropology meant that I now read non-fiction much more than fiction.

I've also had two kids, and just don't have time to reread methodically as I used to. And since passion is fed by sharing, I can share Harry Potter with my kids, who are much too young for aSoIaF, and this keeps me engaged and loving it (the books that is, I detest the films).

This wait between books is so much harder than the last simply because I'm changing - just as much as everyone else on Earth - and huge emotional investments in this series are not as strong as they once were. That's not to say that I don't like the series, I certainly do, just that I've had diminishing passion and enthusiasm. I'd like to think that the release of tWoW will reverse this, but it would be naive to think that I will have the same obsession that I once did.

The last time we had to wait, I was impatient - but in a good way. I was anticipating what was coming. Now, it's less intense. I'm just sad not to have read on, but I won't feel heartbroken if I never get to. It's as though I've had closure already, and that the fate of Westeros was simply never settled and decided.

It sadens me to read replies like yours. Mostly because it is how I will feel by the end of got or after reading twow. It is like ending a dream on a sad note...

I read the first 3 books about a month before the release of ADwD and was so disapointed that AFfC didn t have most of the povs that I liked that it took me as much time to read AFfC as to read the other 3 books. And I am completly sure I don t have it in me to wait more 6 to 10 years for another book that might end up no even being the final book.

 

[kissdbyfire]

On 24/01/2018 at 4:24 AM, Gertrude said:

I'm not sure how to compare them. I think the wait for DWD primed me for this wait. Yes, there was supposed to be a year between FFC/DWD and knowing that made the wait more tense. I don't actually remember my state of mind, but I felt a lot more disappointment through that wait. Expectations set and not met, etc. I much prefer the minimal info approach. One day, I'll just be pleasantly surprised rather than read about people comparing the number of pages written and how many pages that translates into for a book vs draft and how many words per month he's writing and projected dates based on that and ... you get the idea. And the Meerenese Knot, oh god that fucking knot.

The bold x 100 for me. I started reading the series around 2001, I think. The first three books had been published, and there were years of wait before Feast was out. But during those years of waiting for Feast I was working 95 hrs/week. So, while I was anxious to get the next instalment, I think my workload didn't allow for me to feel the wait so keenly. With Dance it was different... I was even more anxious for the next book, and working sane hours. On top of that, there were all the frustrated expectations, updates that ended up being totally wrong etc. So, yeah, in an ideal world I'd like to get a book/year.  

But since we know that's not happening, I much prefer no updates and just an announcement when it's done.

In a nutshell, it's been easier this time.

And btw, I completely understand how frustrating not having any updates can be for some, but I also completely understand Martin's stance on the matter. 

Quote

I think the show is filling a hole. No matter how you feel about it, it's something to talk about and keep you invested.

But here I couldn't disagree more!

The show doesn't fill a hole imo, the show is a hole!