Daenerys Targaryen's Power Plays

[Bowen 747]

12 hours ago, Allardyce said:

Dany is witty and you only have to read her verbal exchange with Mero for proof.  The Titan's Bastard was vulgar and insulting.  I thought Dany held her own and used her wits to spar with the man.  We know how it ended.  She outplayed Mero and won the fight with little loss to her side. 

Mero:  I believe I fucked your twin sister in a pleasure house back home.  Or was it you?

Dany:  I think not.  I would remember a man of such magnificence, I have no doubt.

Mero:  Yes, that is so.  No woman has forgotten the Titan's Bastard.  What say you take those clothes off and come sit on my lap?  If you please me, I might bring the Second Sons over to your side.

Dany:  If you bring the Second Sons over to my side, I might not have you gelded.

Mero:  Little girl, another woman once tried to geld me with her teeth.  She has no teeth now, but my sword is as long and thick as ever.  Shall I take it out and show you?

Dany:  No need.  After my eunuchs cut it off, I can examine it at my leisure.  It is true that I am a young girl, and do not know the ways of war.  Explain to me how you propose to defeat ten thousand Unsullied with your five hundred.  Innocent as I am, these odds seem poor to me.

Mero:  The Second Sons have faced worse odds and won.

Dany:  The Second Sons have faced worse odds and run.  At Qohor, when the Three Thousand made their stand.  Do you deny it?

I really enjoyed that exchange.  Dany has a sharp mind and thinks fast on her feet to come up these verbal jabs.  She gave back just enough insults to get his interest up but not enough direct aggression to worry the man. 

Many of George Martin's best writings are in those Dany chapters. 

 

George has created many memorable characters in forty plus years of writing.  Annalyn, Tuf, Kleronomas, Lyanna, Delvecchio, Ned Stark, Tyrion Lannister, Theon Greyjoy, and the best of them all, Daenerys Targaryen.  He really pulls out all the stops whenever he writes a Dany chapter. 

 

[Bowen 747]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:04 PM, Mon ami said:

I have been and always will be a Daenerys admirer.  So looking back at her character development from thirteen-year-old bride to Khal Drogo to Queen of Meereen, (and by rights the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men), Most Beautiful Woman in the World, and Mother of Dragons;  I cannot help but be awed by her many power plays.  I know the big moments are what most of her other fans think about but she made a few subtle but important plays early in her rise to power that are also almost as impressive.  Winning the love of Khal Drogo and establishing herself as the Khaleesi is very impressive concerning she was very young and forced to adapt to a hard, nomadic culture.  I want to know your favorite Daenerys power play.  Do you have any more examples of her subtle but effective power moves?

A lot of her actions are like moving pieces around the cyvasse board.  From mounting Drogo like a jockey to mounting Drogon in the fighting pits.  The first foreshadows the dragon mounting the stallion.  Mounting is dominating in the primal world.  Mounting Drogon is the acceptance of the enormous powers that she wields. 

[Darth Sidious]

18 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Lots of the one she mentioned are grand in scale, but my favourites are actually those where Dany makes a personal step forward. So I think I will go with either:

1) Leaving her brother in the Dothraki sea to walk behind the khalasar

2) Telling Viserys he has no right to wear braids because he has won no victories and hitting him with the belt.

Viserys is a tragic and complex character in his own right, and I have my sympathies for him, but it was wonderful to see Daenerys develop her independence from him

I have sympathies for Viserys too, but he violated the Dothraki equivalent of guest rights times three.  Drawing a blade in Vaes Dothrak and waving it in front of the khal's wife is not the way to befriend them.  I will have to read that chapter again to be sure but I think Viserys lost his temper.

Getting hit with a belt.  A little more of that medicine when he was a child and Viserys would have turned out a different man.  A timely appointment with the end of a belt cures a lot of bad attitude.  

[Barbrey Dustin]

"A Queen belongs to the people and not herself" 

I don't have the exact quote but the idea it represents is revolutionary for the times.  I would not call this a power move but it speaks very highly of Dany's ideals.  Nobody before this in a leadership capacity has so far understood the responsibility of the ruler to the ruled.  Dany set aside her love in order to save her people from the cowardly harpy.  She married Hizdahr to buy peace and save lives.  Dany showed maturity beyond Robb's.

[Roswell]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:04 PM, Mon ami said:

I have been and always will be a Daenerys admirer.  So looking back at her character development from thirteen-year-old bride to Khal Drogo to Queen of Meereen, (and by rights the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men), Most Beautiful Woman in the World, and Mother of Dragons;  I cannot help but be awed by her many power plays.  I know the big moments are what most of her other fans think about but she made a few subtle but important plays early in her rise to power that are also almost as impressive.  Winning the love of Khal Drogo and establishing herself as the Khaleesi is very impressive concerning she was very young and forced to adapt to a hard, nomadic culture.  I want to know your favorite Daenerys power play.  Do you have any more examples of her subtle but effective power moves?

Yes I do.  The rescue of the Unsullied slaves from their masters in Astapor.  That was brilliant. 

[Roswell]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:48 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

1. At the gates of Meereen.  Dany sent Belwas to answer the challenge from Oznak.  
2. Aggo, Jhogo, and Rakharo kept her khalasar together and they were her best scouts.
3. "If I ignore this longer, my own people will think me weak"
4. Without Daario, she had no hold on the Storm crows.
5. "They are pissing on slaves to show how little they fear of us"
6. "Tell Strong Belwas I have need of him"
7. "Strong Belwas was a slave here in the fighting pits.  If this highborn Oznak should fall to such, the Great Masters will be shamed.  If Oznak wins it is poor victory for one so noble."
8. Belwas was the man she could most easily spare.  

I loved Dany's thought process here.  I would be scared to face her troops on the battlefields.  This is subtle but totally badass move.  I loved it.

 

You know there was initial clash between Belwas and the Dothraki when they met.  Belwas boasted of killing many Dothraki during his career in the fighting pits.  The Dothraki were offended.  Belwas wins this fight and he gets a standing (they were actually on horseback) ovation from the Dothraki.  He did himself a lot of good and won a lot of respect from winning that fight.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

23 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I doubt many in Westeros are going to make that distinction, which was the context in which that comment was made.

It matters not.  The War of the Five Fools left the land in the worst shape its ever been.  The people would look towards the return of Targaryen rule and even the return of the dragons. 

 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:04 PM, Mon ami said:

I have been and always will be a Daenerys admirer. 

Me too.

On 2/1/2018 at 7:04 PM, Mon ami said:

Winning the love of Khal Drogo and establishing herself as the Khaleesi is very impressive concerning she was very young and forced to adapt to a hard, nomadic culture. 

Very impressive indeed.  What's more, she made use of Doreah's knowledge.  One of Dany's skills is learning from other people.  She showed Drogo a thing or two about lovemaking.

 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 2/2/2018 at 3:29 AM, Lollygag said:

Ha! It was the slave-to-free ratios in some of the Free Cities which made me think Dany was headed this way. It'd be fun to see the recently captured Hardhome wildlings with their We Do Not Kneel ways play a part here, too. 

 

To the OP:

I’m really impressed by her in AGOT as yourself but I'll add her navigation of the HOTU. She's been more impressive for me when without her dragons. It’s too easy to fall back on the instant gratification of “dracarys” than to do all of that time-intensive labor that she excelled at in AGOT but who wouldn’t fall into that pattern despite their best efforts, especially a teenager. Before the dragons, she was starting to develop her own self-esteem after Viserys, but post-dragon, I think that process slowed and her dragons became her self-esteem instead. 

I think the over-reliance on her dragons and less reliance on herself is intentionally written so I’m hoping/expecting that this will turn around and we’ll see a more engaged Dany like we saw in AGOT later on in the story. Her last chapter in ADWD was the first chapter of hers that I enjoyed in a long time because I felt like she was a real character again. Her HOTU chapter also read like AGOT Dany, but then she was without her dragons through most of it and had to rely on herself.

Also, I’ve noticed that a lot of her better moves are rooted more in observation, psychology and intuition when she trusts herself to truly engage these qualities. We've yet to see, but her last ADWD chapter made me think that she's coming to realize that the real power is herself, and her dragons are just tools. Hopefully I'm right. 

 

 

I don't see an over-reliance on her dragons.  She used them in Astapor and nowhere else.  Dany mostly relies on her own abilities.  She believes in herself.  Enough to walk into Drogo's funeral fire.

My favorite Dany play happened in Daznak's Pit.  That was magical when she rode Drogon. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 2/1/2018 at 8:29 PM, Lord Lannister said:

She seems to be an excellent conqueror, but less effective as a ruler. Which ironically is the same problem Robert Baratheon had. Though the reasons for their failings were quite different. Dany is a young foreigner, implementing massive societal and cultural changes upon a people whereas Robert just didn't give a damn and left his councilors to bicker over the realm so long as his hobbies were funded. They say failure is an excellent teacher and Dany may well grasp the lessons of her failures in Mereen when and if she ever goes to Westeros. For another irony, Dany is likely to have the same problem in Westeros as she did in Mereen though. If she arrives at the head of slave soldiers, Dothraki and various sellswords she's just as likely to be labeled as a foreign invader again.

Probably her most epic "power move" to me was the transformation that led to her evolving from a scared girl into a woman that could do all these things. She had everything against her. From a tormentor in the form of her brother who literally sold her off, to being cast among the savages and having to adapt to a lifestyle she knew nothing about. From that she not only maintained her sanity and survived, but she thrived and won over the people around her. From the most powerful Khal ever, to her inner circle of Dothraki who were willing to break all tradition for her. She even won over the loyalty of a man who was sent to inform on her and literally had everything in hand for the return home he so craved.

She has the ability to inspire fear and love, though it seems to be her coming of age has been wrought with imbalance between the two.

She gives the cynics something greater than themselves to believe in.   Ironic that Jorah the slaver fought to free the enslaved.  All because he believed in her.  

 

[Darth Sidious]

Jorah's banishment was appropriate.  She could have had him executed for spying on her but chose to exile him instead.  It turned out to be a good decision because the man is still loyal to her.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 2/2/2018 at 10:44 AM, zandru said:

What "slave soldiers"? Dany's first order was to free her Unsullied. She has no slaves, only free men and women.

You make an excellent point about learning to govern! As noted, Robert Baratheon never even tried; he just assumed the Iron Throne was all about his doing anything he wanted to do, kicked back, and had a good time (8 stones of it). Dany buckled down and decided she needed to use Meereen as a "Government 101" school before attempting Westeros. The sudden exit on Drogon cut short Daenerys's training, and her last scenes give (me) the suggestion that she's no longer going to put off the move to Westeros once she gets back. Blood and Fire! Depending on what happens to her next, this could go either way. However, the records show that Dany will do the smart, unexpected thing. It remains to be seen whether the rest of her people in Meereen will be able to hold what they have.

Robert's job was far easier.  There was already a functioning, 300 year old system in place.  He used his kinship with the Targaryens to justify his right to sit the throne.  He inherited a wealthy treasury and a thriving economy.  Daenerys took down a thousand year old system based on slavery, the harpy continues to conduct guerilla warfare, and a new system will have to be built from the ground up.  It will take time. 

[Lord Lannister]

1 hour ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

It matters not.  The War of the Five Fools left the land in the worst shape its ever been.  The people would look towards the return of Targaryen rule and even the return of the dragons. 

 

Well Viserys was certainly of that opinion for what that's worth. I expect Jorah Mormont had the right of it. "The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are." In a feudal society, the people do what the lords make them and all of them have agendas behind their allegiances.

[Lord Lannister]

1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

She gives the cynics something greater than themselves to believe in.   Ironic that Jorah the slaver fought to free the enslaved.  All because he believed in her. 

That was an irony that I liked. I'm glad the show called attention to it even if the novels didn't directly. Jorah was always one of my favorite characters, even if he could never get a break.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

5 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Well Viserys was certainly of that opinion for what that's worth. I expect Jorah Mormont had the right of it. "The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are." In a feudal society, the people do what the lords make them and all of them have agendas behind their allegiances.

Probably so.  I don't think the common people ever had anything against King Aerys II but the ones in the Vale had to answer the call when Jon Arryn rebelled.  It's not always clear though and Roose Bolton can rightly argue that he had more obligation to King Joffrey than he did to Lord Robb Stark and justify his reasons for working against the Stark rebels.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 2/2/2018 at 7:46 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I can write about this subject endlessly and never get tired.  Mine took place near the beginning of our story and got me hooked on Dany's story line.  Here it is for your enjoyment, the passage from Dany's wedding to Khal Drogo.

What a beautiful moment, beautifully and lovingly written by George R. R. Martin.  What a lovely character he created in Daenerys Targaryen.  I know it's not exactly a "power play" but Dany's confidence with her filly literally gave her wings and this is the start of her blossoming. 

That's some kind of horse.  That's some kind of girl. 

To Dany, here's looking at you, kid. 

I have this mental image of an Arabian horse but the following had me rethink that.

Spoiler

Barristan rode the horse during the battle for Meereen.  Barristan is a big man wearing armor.  The horse still ran ahead of the pack. 

I can picture the silver horse having the build of a thoroughbred.  Big, but refined. 

[the trees have eyes]

17 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Well Viserys was certainly of that opinion for what that's worth. I expect Jorah Mormont had the right of it. "The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are." In a feudal society, the people do what the lords make them and all of them have agendas behind their allegiances.

At the start of our story when the realm was at peace this was certainly so.  With the carnage that has unfolded over the last two years the smallfolk will welcome whoever restores peace and starts to rebuild the shattered kingdom.  As will many of the Lords, both small and great.  It doesn't have to be Dany but she is the most likely candidate having been totally uninvolved in the disastrous feuding of the last few years, a scion of the House that ruled for 300 years, oh and with the symbolic and practical advantages that at least one dragon brings with it.

[Moiraine Sedai]

18 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

At the start of our story when the realm was at peace this was certainly so.  With the carnage that has unfolded over the last two years the smallfolk will welcome whoever restores peace and starts to rebuild the shattered kingdom.  As will many of the Lords, both small and great.  It doesn't have to be Dany but she is the most likely candidate having been totally uninvolved in the disastrous feuding of the last few years, a scion of the House that ruled for 300 years, oh and with the symbolic and practical advantages that at least one dragon brings with it.

I do agree.  It's the weariness from the wotfk that drove many to the faith.  The people are sick of fighting and may welcome the restoration of the Dragons.

[Moiraine Sedai]

40 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

That was an irony that I liked. I'm glad the show called attention to it even if the novels didn't directly. Jorah was always one of my favorite characters, even if he could never get a break.

Third time's the charm.  He'll get a break.  

[Rondo]

Building the masked city watch is a fine idea.  The Brazen Beasts.