AlaskanSandman Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Just now, The Fattest Leech said: The more I watch these theorists who don't have any dialogue with other readers, the more "off" they are. It seems a checks and balances works best because there is no way any one person can remember everything in this set of tomes, and we each come with different backgrounds of knowledge that can be added (or used to clarify another's point). Even Ran failed trivia at some Con's I was only able to skim the part of Alysanne because she has always intrigued me. I can't say that I can remember all of what you posited at the moment, but I feel that there were some gaps that I did want to ask about... but that will have to be later. Hahaha yea i had saw that Ran had failed one hahah i was shocked cause his good memory. I enjoy watching his video when he used to make them. Absolutely! I even tried tagging Ran to see if he might offer anything as i do want to iron out any kinks in my theory. Though, if im right in the most part, it would greatly effect alot and explain alot. I tried else where to do it as a family tree thinking that would be easier to see and visualize but some complained that they couldn't view it on their phones. People are already complaining that this is 5 parts long lol but then also complaining that there is not enough. Its a balancing act that i do try to accommodate with out over indulging in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: An age for her would be interesting though as like i said i couldn't find one. Though there may be a year or two gap between the children and may not be twins as Jocelyn is earliest born by 61ac and Gael in 62 Ac. There is an over lap at 62 Ac but an on 1 year difference is possibly still there. This is part of it, there is another, but I may not be getting my search terms totally correct because of medicine head. One thing it does show us is it seems Val likes dark haired, younger men because Jarl (which means chieftain) is a sort of Jon prototype. A Storm of Swords - Jon III Within the rock, the passage descended twenty feet before it opened out onto a space as large as Winterfell's Great Hall. Cookfires burned amongst the columns, their smoke rising to blacken the stony ceiling. The horses had been hobbled along one wall, beside a shallow pool. A sinkhole in the center of the floor opened on what might have been an even greater cavern below, though the darkness made it hard to tell. Jon could hear the soft rushing sound of an underground stream somewhere below as well. Jarl was with the Magnar; Mance had given them the joint command. Styr was none too pleased by that, Jon had noted early on. Mance Rayder had called the dark youth a "pet" of Val, who was sister to Dalla, his own queen, which made Jarl a sort of good brother once removed to the King-beyond-the-Wall. The Magnar plainly resented sharing his authority. He had brought a hundred Thenns, five times as many men as Jarl, and often acted as if he had the sole command. But it would be the younger man who got them over the ice, Jon knew. Though he could not have been older than twenty, Jarl had been raiding for eight years, and had gone over the Wall a dozen times with the likes of Alfyn Crowkiller and the Weeper, and more recently with his own band. A Storm of Swords - Jon III He gave her closest nipple a playful pinch. "I was a man of the Night's Watch." Was, he heard himself say. What was he now? He did not want to look at that. "Were you a maid?" Ygritte pushed herself onto an elbow. "I am nineteen, and a spearwife, and kissed by fire. How could I be maiden?" "Who was he?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said: This is part of it, there is another, but I may not be getting my search terms totally correct because of medicine head. One thing it does show us is it seems Val likes dark haired, younger men because Jarl (which means chieftain) is a sort of Jon prototype. A Storm of Swords - Jon III Within the rock, the passage descended twenty feet before it opened out onto a space as large as Winterfell's Great Hall. Cookfires burned amongst the columns, their smoke rising to blacken the stony ceiling. The horses had been hobbled along one wall, beside a shallow pool. A sinkhole in the center of the floor opened on what might have been an even greater cavern below, though the darkness made it hard to tell. Jon could hear the soft rushing sound of an underground stream somewhere below as well. Jarl was with the Magnar; Mance had given them the joint command. Styr was none too pleased by that, Jon had noted early on. Mance Rayder had called the dark youth a "pet" of Val, who was sister to Dalla, his own queen, which made Jarl a sort of good brother once removed to the King-beyond-the-Wall. The Magnar plainly resented sharing his authority. He had brought a hundred Thenns, five times as many men as Jarl, and often acted as if he had the sole command. But it would be the younger man who got them over the ice, Jon knew. Though he could not have been older than twenty, Jarl had been raiding for eight years, and had gone over the Wall a dozen times with the likes of Alfyn Crowkiller and the Weeper, and more recently with his own band. A Storm of Swords - Jon III He gave her closest nipple a playful pinch. "I was a man of the Night's Watch." Was, he heard himself say. What was he now? He did not want to look at that. "Were you a maid?" Ygritte pushed herself onto an elbow. "I am nineteen, and a spearwife, and kissed by fire. How could I be maiden?" "Who was he?" Hmmmm, still a lil loose but i see where you got that from now. Thank you The only people mentioned with changing colored eyes though are House Farwyn, Eddard Stark, and Val. House Farwyn i think is connected to House Stark but that's a debate for another thread i guess haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 23 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Hmmmm, still a lil loose but i see where you got that from now. Thank you The only people mentioned with changing colored eyes though are House Farwyn, Eddard Stark, and Val. House Farwyn i think is connected to House Stark but that's a debate for another thread i guess haha Nope. This idea that Eddard's eyes changed color also comes from OotGH video. See, I do watch them What they are mis-claiming comes from a Catelyn chapter and has nothing to do with Eddard's eyes actaully changing color, but are reflecting his moods, just as we see Bran (?) say Eddard change his face at certain times. A Clash of Kings - Catelyn V One of the silent sisters turned down the banner. Bones, Catelyn thought. This is not Ned, this is not the man I loved, the father of my children. His hands were clasped together over his chest, skeletal fingers curled about the hilt of some longsword, but they were not Ned's hands, so strong and full of life. They had dressed the bones in Ned's surcoat, the fine white velvet with the direwolf badge over the heart, but nothing remained of the warm flesh that had pillowed her head so many nights, the arms that had held her. The head had been rejoined to the body with fine silver wire, but one skull looks much like another, and in those empty hollows she found no trace of her lord's dark grey eyes, eyes that could be soft as a fog or hard as stone. They gave his eyes to crows, she remembered. Catelyn turned away. "That is not his sword." Ned's eyes are always grey. His moods are reflected by softness or hardness. ADDING: Please point it out if I am misrememerbing something about Ned's eye color. These books are long! House Farwynd is probably just another first man offshoot house. That I can see. Yes. And I believe that they are described as, "changeable as the sea", if I remember correctly. This plays A LOT in to the Jon and Val parallel to the new Nymeria archetype, just as Jon may wake with different color eyes, or even more likely, a streak of white or silver in his hair. But this part is pure speculation. And who is to say that Val's eye color didn't change from pale grey to blue because she also changed her outfit to the queenly wedding weirwood whites she now has on? I happened to look this up earlier this evening for something else, but it may help here as well. Q: What color do you have in mind when you write that someone has "pale" eyes? GRRM: Very light grey or blue. In the most extreme cases, like Roose Bolton's, the eyes would look almost colorless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said: Nope. This idea that Eddard's eyes changed color also comes from OotGH video. See, I do watch them What they are mis-claiming comes from a Catelyn chapter and has nothing to do with Eddard's eyes actaully changing color, but are reflecting his moods, just as we see Bran (?) say Eddard change his face at certain times. A Clash of Kings - Catelyn V One of the silent sisters turned down the banner. Bones, Catelyn thought. This is not Ned, this is not the man I loved, the father of my children. His hands were clasped together over his chest, skeletal fingers curled about the hilt of some longsword, but they were not Ned's hands, so strong and full of life. They had dressed the bones in Ned's surcoat, the fine white velvet with the direwolf badge over the heart, but nothing remained of the warm flesh that had pillowed her head so many nights, the arms that had held her. The head had been rejoined to the body with fine silver wire, but one skull looks much like another, and in those empty hollows she found no trace of her lord's dark grey eyes, eyes that could be soft as a fog or hard as stone. They gave his eyes to crows, she remembered. Catelyn turned away. "That is not his sword." Ned's eyes are always grey. His moods are reflected by softness or hardness. House Farwynd is probaly just another first man offshoot house. That I can see. And I believe that they are described as, "changeable as the sea", if I remember correctly. This plays A LOT in to the Jon and Val parallel to the new Nymeria archetype, just as Jon may wake with different color eyes, or even more likely, a streak of white or silver in his hair. But this part is pure speculation. And who is to say that Val's eye color didn't change from pale grey to blue because she also changed her outfit to the queenly wedding weirwood whites she now has on? I happened to look this up earlier this evening for something else, but it may help here as well. Q: What color do you have in mind when you write that someone has "pale" eyes? GRRM: Very light grey or blue. In the most extreme cases, like Roose Bolton's, the eyes would look almost colorless. Fog is not dark grey though. That could still be seen as changing color or hue. And Rooses eyes are described like chips of ice, Val's are not. Also, last i checked, i was the only person who had presented the Grey King as the ancestor to the Starks, not the Ootgh. I have extensive threads on the past legends and bridging them into a cohesive family tree that shows the stark as descendants of the Grey King and the Walrus Men. Where as House Targaryen, House Gardener and such come from the Antler Men that were his brother Durran God's Grief. Both son's of Garth the Green. And last i checked, every one still thought i was crazy on that one too. (Shrug) Also, i added trees to help with visualizing the family tree and what im saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Fog is not dark grey though. That could still be seen as changing color or hue. And Rooses eyes are described like chips of ice, Val's are not. It is emotions, like the Lord's mask and such. Purple prose if you will If it was hue, then we would read about it from other people. "Down here, beneath the Rock?" It made no sense. Yet there came two riders on pale horses, men and mounts both armored. The destriers emerged from the blackness at a slow walk. They make no sound, Jaime realized. No splashing, no clink of mail nor clop of hoof. He remembered Eddard Stark, riding the length of Aerys's throne room wrapped in silence. Only his eyes had spoken; a lord's eyes, cold and grey and full of judgment. Roos's are colorless because of leeches!!!! mwahahahaa. Roose is described from top to bottom, start to finish as lacking any humanity. He has no emotion and no eye color. If Val were to follow any southron house based on general looks, it would be House Mallister, and this is admitted crackpot. 3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Also, last i checked, i was the only person who had presented the Grey King as the ancestor to the Starks, not the Ootgh. Fair enough, but I did not say this came from ootgh. I actually was sorta agreeing with you that it could be possible. 3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: I have extensive threads on the past legends and bridging them into a cohesive family tree that shows the stark as descendants of the Grey King and the Walrus Men. Where as House Targaryen, House Gardener and such come from the Antler Men that were his brother Durran God's Grief. Both son's of Garth the Green. And last i checked, every one still thought i was crazy on that one too. (Shrug) These things, history and lore and such, are easily confused no matter the medium. Especially in an incomplete series, and one where the "history" book is purposely written to hold much falseness. I do agree to that. And George has said that he plans to leave many things in history and certain artifacts unanswered because he likes it better that way. Oily black stone was one such artifact (or whatever). We won't get any real answer to oily black stone, but that is not going to stop the theories... and that is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: It is emotions, like the Lord's mask and such. Purple prose if you will If it was hue, then we would read about it from other people. "Down here, beneath the Rock?" It made no sense. Yet there came two riders on pale horses, men and mounts both armored. The destriers emerged from the blackness at a slow walk. They make no sound, Jaime realized. No splashing, no clink of mail nor clop of hoof. He remembered Eddard Stark, riding the length of Aerys's throne room wrapped in silence. Only his eyes had spoken; a lord's eyes, cold and grey and full of judgment. Roos's are colorless because of leeches!!!! mwahahahaa. Roose is described from top to bottom, start to finish as lacking any humanity. He has no emotion and no eye color. If Val were to follow any southron house based on general looks, it would be House Mallister, and this is admitted crackpot. Fair enough, but I did not say this came from ootgh. I actually was sorta agreeing with you that it could be possible. These things, history and lore and such, are easily confused no matter the medium. Especially in an incomplete series, and one where the "history" book is purposely written to hold much falseness. I do agree to that. And George has said that he plans to leave many things in history and certain artifacts unanswered because he likes it better that way. Oily black stone was one such artifact (or whatever). We won't get any real answer to oily black stone, but that is not going to stop the theories... and that is ok. Hahaha i do hope we learn more about Roose. And oh i didn't catch that hahaha And true, i could see him even leaving alot of the parentage unanswered and merely hinted at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Blues Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 What in the hell...? I’m so confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, Winter Blues said: What in the hell...? I’m so confused Start with part one where i explain the Stark line taking over the Royal line. This would be a fall out of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 23 minutes ago, Winter Blues said: What in the hell...? I’m so confused Torrhen Stark Arryn Arryn I I I I-----------------------------I I-----------------I I Son Lady Stark ==== Ronnel Arryn Jonos I I I Daughter ================ Hubert Arryn I Daela========Rodrik Arryn I Viserys I ==========Aemma Arryn I Rhaenyra=====Daemon I Aegon III the Dragon Bane I I Through the generations to I------------------------I Aerys ===========Rhaella I Daenerys This is the long and short of Daenerys' lineage issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepbollywood Motte Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 8 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Torrhen Stark Arryn Arryn I I I I-----------------------------I I-----------------I I Son Lady Stark ==== Ronnel Arryn Jonos I I I Daughter ================ Hubert Arryn I Daela========Rodrik Arryn I Viserys I ==========Aemma Arryn I Rhaenyra=====Daemon I Aegon III the Dragon Bane I I Through the generations to I------------------------I Aerys ===========Rhaella I Daenerys This is the long and short of Daenerys' lineage issue. But Hubert Arryn was married to lady Royce, not a daughter of Ronnel, according to the wiki. He himself had no Stark blood so unless lady Royce had some distant Stark blood (possible i guess) the Arryn line doesn't. Either way, if you look at lineages this way every noble house will probably have some Stark blood someway down the line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Deepbollywood Motte said: But Hubert Arryn was married to lady Royce, not a daughter of Ronnel, according to the wiki. He himself had no Stark blood And the house of cards collapses… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 17 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: It's been out for a while and i find it funny i have to quote sooooo much stuff for people supposedly so familiar with the books can't recall GRRM's description for an artist that's been out for a while. Then when i put quotes you all require a thesis for each quote even though the important part is underlined in bold. Then you all complain about to many quotes lmao This is why people dont bother trying to please every one on the internet. You guys complain about anything lmao Val has changing colored eyes like Eddard Stark. She has grey eyes like the starks are known to have. Im sure there is shades of grey as Targaryens had shades of Purple. That's a weak argument against. And if any one ready part 1 and paid attention. Val looks like Ashara and Alysanne. A mix of them. Not exactly like either. And we know blonde hair exist in house Dayne as her brother had blonde hair. Plus this is all drawn from the mirror of Alysanne and her twins at Queen's Crown Tower. It's help if you didnt' cherry pick things to nit pick and actually focused on the whole thread. And LMAO this is what i mean. Yes, it's stated by Mance that Benjen doens't know his face and he doubts Eddard would remember some black brother he met at winterfell long ago. Let me sum it up. At least two people have pointed out murky construction of your argument. You spend zero time on maybe reworking and clarifying it, instead just call them jerks. When asked about the description of Ashara Dayne you had referred to, you explain in detail why I suck and still not quote the allegedly existing description. The one quote you actually don't care to paste, despite it being actually relevant (if existent) for a change. See, why Bilbo Baggins said "What have I got in my pocket?" and refused to give any additional clues, was because he didn't want Gollum to know. He didn't want him to guess. If he had wanted Gollum to know, he'd have said "look, here's what I got in my pocket" instead. It's as if you didn't even want to sell your theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 6:11 AM, Deepbollywood Motte said: But Hubert Arryn was married to lady Royce, not a daughter of Ronnel, according to the wiki. He himself had no Stark blood so unless lady Royce had some distant Stark blood (possible i guess) the Arryn line doesn't. Either way, if you look at lineages this way every noble house will probably have some Stark blood someway down the line... She may have been raised by them or im missing a generation. Maybe the daugher wed a Royce and then to Hubert. Except not really. When is there Lannister blood in House Targaryen? or House Stark? Velaryon wouldn't have Stark blood either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 7:23 AM, Nowy Tends said: And the house of cards collapses… Lol a lil over dramatic. Hardly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 0:49 PM, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: Let me sum it up. At least two people have pointed out murky construction of your argument. You spend zero time on maybe reworking and clarifying it, instead just call them jerks. When asked about the description of Ashara Dayne you had referred to, you explain in detail why I suck and still not quote the allegedly existing description. The one quote you actually don't care to paste, despite it being actually relevant (if existent) for a change. See, why Bilbo Baggins said "What have I got in my pocket?" and refused to give any additional clues, was because he didn't want Gollum to know. He didn't want him to guess. If he had wanted Gollum to know, he'd have said "look, here's what I got in my pocket" instead. It's as if you didn't even want to sell your theory. Lol ok, now your just making up slander and seem to be a lil too wound up and keep coming from some upset sounding angle. I will keep responding to friendly people and answering their points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 I may have one or two pieces wrong, and im openly seeking constructive people to help figure out where any errors may be. That being said, the Dance of Dragons had to have been about something more. The passing over of Rhaenys and Rhaenyra could have more to do than just them being women. The Marriage Pact of Ice and Fire that Cregan sought is not with out reason. The events at the wall during the reign of Jaehaerys and Alysanne have to have greater consequences as they have been deliberately hidden from the histories. And plenty more. There is plenty of reason for me to feel confident in the path im on, even if a piece of two is wrong. Not to mention the mysterious Hour of the Wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 6:11 AM, Deepbollywood Motte said: But Hubert Arryn was married to lady Royce, not a daughter of Ronnel, according to the wiki. He himself had no Stark blood so unless lady Royce had some distant Stark blood (possible i guess) the Arryn line doesn't. Either way, if you look at lineages this way every noble house will probably have some Stark blood someway down the line... Also, it may be that one of Hubert's six sons by Lady Royce wed the Daughter of Ronnel Arryn. There are the three different ways it could have happened, only one requiring a swap or hidden person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 6:11 AM, Deepbollywood Motte said: But Hubert Arryn was married to lady Royce, not a daughter of Ronnel, according to the wiki. He himself had no Stark blood so unless lady Royce had some distant Stark blood (possible i guess) the Arryn line doesn't. Either way, if you look at lineages this way every noble house will probably have some Stark blood someway down the line... Torrhen Stark Arryn Arryn I I I I-----------------------------I I-----------------I I Son Lady Stark ==== Ronnel Arryn Jonos Lady Royce=== Hubert Arryn I I Daughter ============================Son I I I Daela========Rodrik Arryn I Viserys I ==========Aemma Arryn I Rhaenyra=====Daemon I Aegon III the Dragon Bane Would look like this instead. Not knowing whether Hubert and Ronnel were close in age or not, but they were cousins so close enough in generations on the tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: She may have been raised by them or im missing a generation. Maybe the daugher wed a Royce and then to Hubert. Please… just check the wiki… “Possibly”, “maybe” are the key words in your, hum, err, “theory”, it's not convincing to say the least… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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