AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said: Please… just check the wiki… “Possibly”, “maybe” are the key words in your, hum, err, “theory”, it's not convincing to say the least… Possibly and Maybe are all we have in these books till their settled so that's a weak argument. I appreciate if you dont agree, but on those grounds is just funny. I fixed the tree to reflect Hubert and Lady Royce and their son. Since Hubert and Ronnel were cousins, it's likely Hubert's son wed Ronnel's daughter to solidify his rule. That's not much of a leap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said: Please… just check the wiki… “Possibly”, “maybe” are the key words in your, hum, err, “theory”, it's not convincing to say the least… Torrhen Stark Arryn Arryn I I I I-----------------------------I I-----------------I I Son Lady Stark ==== Ronnel Arryn Jonos Lady Royce=== Hubert Arryn I I Daughter ============================Son I I I Daela========Rodrik Arryn I Viserys I ==========Aemma Arryn I Rhaenyra=====Daemon I Aegon III the Dragon Bane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Didn't you believe that (f)Aegon, Jon Snow and Daenerys were all half siblings? That they were fated for a fatal love/power triangle like many Targaryens before them? From what I recall you defended that theory of yours pretty hard. That Ashara was dishonored by Lyanna Stark at Harrenhal because Rhaegar crowned her QoLaB instead of Ashara. So I have to ask, why such a drastic change in thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Didn't you believe that (f)Aegon, Jon Snow and Daenerys were all half siblings? That they were fated for a fatal love/power triangle like many Targaryens before them? From what I recall you defended that theory of yours pretty hard. That Ashara was dishonored by Lyanna Stark at Harrenhal because Rhaegar crowned her QoLaB instead of Ashara. So I have to ask, why such a drastic change in thoughts? Well firstly, do i have to hold to one given idea? Is this like the watch where it's for life untill death due us part? lol can i not openly question other possibilities? Part 1 would likely explain part of this. Something i had never noticed before and something i've never seen mentioned by any one else. So this is exploring where that may lead. Alysanne may have had kids at Queen's Crown, plus Jaehaerys and her fought at the wall against mammoths and giants and the only possible thing was Bael the Bard who had skipped down Jaehaerys' kings road. Bael who had fought his son 30 years later at the wall, when Jaehaerys was likely fighting too. Alysanne and his first quarrel possibly tied to her birthing at queens crown. Further, some of it is based on mirrors in the story. Some i had noticed before, while a huge chunk of them i had missed. Like the starks coming south for a tourney and a wedding, the stark maid being given a rose by a guy she likes even tho she is engaged and the guy giving the rose is gay, and the maid is stolen by some one other than the person who gave her the rose, the Stark father and eldest son dying, the Mother possibly giving war time councille like Cat, the youngest Stark staying behind as Stark of Winterfell, and more. the sibling groups would still be there i just had wrong possibly who was attached to which. This would postulate that it would be Jon, Dany and Val. While Aegon and Tyrion and some one else would make up the other possibly? im not sure. Im not holding that to this as that is based off other ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said: Well firstly, do i have to hold to one given idea? Did I ever you say you did? 1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said: can i not openly question other possibilities? Sure, but if your putting forth a new theory that doesn't coincide with your earlier one it typically means you changed your mind. I merely asked why, since it seemed you were pretty certain your previous theory was correct the way you defended it. You also put a lot of time and text into your earlier theory you posted not so long ago, so I was a bit surprised. 1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said: she is engaged and the guy giving the rose is gay Well there is no evidence that Rhaegar was gay. So this is another "might" or "may." 1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said: the Mother possibly giving war time councille like Cat, We hear very little about Lyarra Stark. It's possible she had already died before the Harrenhal tourney happened. We don't hear about her heading to the Riverlands for Brandon's wedding. Nor is she mentioned at all after Rickard and Brandon were killed. And there has never been a character that has mentioned her being around Ned during the rebellion. Also Catelyn never mentions meeting Ned's mother in any of her POV's, I feel like she would have if she did. IMO 1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said: he sibling groups would still be there i just had wrong possibly who was attached to which. A sibling is a brother or sister, not a cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Did I ever you say you did? Sure, but if your putting forth a new theory that doesn't coincide with your earlier one it typically means you changed your mind. I merely asked why, since it seemed you were pretty certain your previous theory was correct the way you defended it. You also put a lot of time and text into your earlier theory you posted not so long ago, so I was a bit surprised. Well there is no evidence that Rhaegar was gay. So this is another "might" or "may." We hear very little about Lyarra Stark. It's possible she had already died before the Harrenhal tourney happened. We don't hear about her heading to the Riverlands for Brandon's wedding. Nor is she mentioned at all after Rickard and Brandon were killed. And there has never been a character that has mentioned her being around Ned during the rebellion. Also Catelyn never mentions meeting Ned's mother in any of her POV's, I feel like she would have if she did. IMO A sibling is a brother or sister, not a cousin. Lol no, but it's still a valid question in response. I get you. This is actually based off some recent stuff, you may have just missed them. The part about Bael and Alysanne i started a month or so back and is based off different stuff. The ideas of the siblings comes from parallels to the ancient legends possibly playing out in the current narrative. This is more parallels to current narratives and recent history. Though the Alysanne bit in and of it self isnt a parallel to anything. Just a possible discovery/theory i've been exploring surrounding the quote about Jaehaerys and her fighting at the wall, which led to why they would be fighting at the wall and what happened during their reign. Which leads into the succession crisis of 92ac and the story of Bael and his war at the wall. Which would seem to imply that Jaehaerys and her fought this very battle at the wall. Which combined with the succession crisis of 92ac seemed to imply unwanted blood in the royal line. Mix in her stay at Queen's Crown which sounds like a birthing clue. Gave me a massive pause and reason to examine further, even if it means older ideas i had may be wrong. Can't move forward though if you can't let go of old ideas or be willing to look at other possibilities. And yes that mirror with Rhaegar to Loras may be a might. But as the rest of everything else mirrors, i dont see why that can't either. To which i talk about further in part 3. The accusations that he stole Lyanna and where they came from, his lack of interest in women, the hard time in finding him a bride, marrying Elia for duty when it won no favor from his father or House Lannister, only the weak house of Martell. There is plenty of reason to question his sexuality and motives beyond the possible mirroring to Loras between the Tourney's as a clue to this insight. And no there is not any mention of her. Which is why in that thread it's presented more as a question. And why would it be mentioned already? Why can't it be something secret? Will it go down in history that Robb's mother gave him war time council? Who will write the history even? Will she even get mentioned? By your logic we shouldn't be curious about her then? What's your point? I already said it may not apply here and was stuff based on the other theories. It may be in play here or may not. Im not concerning my self with it and if i linked up some cousins instead of siblings in my mock example as you understand their relations, then oh well. Again, not relevant to this thread. Im popping in real quick to respond while i juggle real life, sorry if i err occasionally when trying to rush to respond to every one. It happens. But hardly defaces the whole premise. Later i may try to resolve these more current narrative beats to the other seeming narrative beats of the past. But for now i can only juggle so much information at once and people already complain about these being to long already haha. Not much has changed about my feeling on the past though if anything. Really its just my understanding of more recent stuff. Like Bloodraven who also leads to Jaehaerys. Which is why i keep circling around him, a lot of clues kept pointing to him. The Bloodraven clues came out of tracking the L.C. of the watch. Which led to realizing that Bloodraven was the 995 L.C. who served for 13 years. That gave me a massive pause. I though, 13 years wtf. Sat and stared and thought, then it struck me. 9+9-5=13. So in a way, Bloodraven is the 13th Lord Commander who served for 13 years. This struck me ass odd or a coincidence of lucky design. Realizing he can't have been the 13th in history, i wondered if maybe he wasn't the 13th since Aegon I. So i looked at House Targaryen and realized that there has been 13 kings or generations up to him 298th- Jon Snow 299-300ac 1yr 297th- Jeor Mormont 288-299ac 11 yrs 996th- Qorgyle 252-288ac 36 yrs (Person of interest under the time of Roberts Rebellion and service of Mance.) 995th- Bloodraven 239-252ac 13 years...... wait a min. 994th- Sleepy Jack ?-239ac became known as from Jack Musgood after Raymund Redbeard King beyond the Wall snuck south in 226ac What is 9 + 9 - 5? 13 I find it interesting that Bran mentions this story too just before passing beyond the Black Gate and possibly meeting the Night's King. The Last Greenseerer. Another interesting thing. 1. Aegon I 2 Aenys I 3 Maegor I 4 Jaehaerys I & Alysanne 1 who closed Night fort and changed watch 1. Aegon 5 Viserys I 2 2. Maegor I, Aenys I 6 Aegon II 3 3 Jaehaerys I 7 Aegon III 4 4. Generation skipped over 8 Daeron I 5 4 Viserys I 9 Baelor I 6 6 Aegon II 10 Viserys II 7 7 Viserys II, Aegon III 11 Aegon IV 8 8 Aegon IV Baelor I Daeron I 12 Daeron II 9 9 Daeron II 13 Aerys I 10 10 Aerys I, Maekar I 14 Maekar I 11 11 Aegon V 15 Aegon V 12 12 Jaeharerys 16 Jaehaerys II 13 The 2nd who wed his kids on word of woods witch 13. Aerys II 17 Aerys II One way brings you to Jaehaerys the other to Aegon I. So i got looking more and that's when i found the quote about Jaehaerys fighting at the wall. The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Viserys I On the third day of the third moon of 129 AC, while entertaining Jaehaerys and Jaehaera from his bed with a tale of their great-great-grandsire and his queen battling giants, mammoths, and wildlings beyond the Wall, the king grew tired. He sent his grandchildren away when the tale was done and fell into a sleep from which he never awoke. He had ruled for six-and-twenty years, reigning over the most prosperous era in the history of the Seven Kingdoms but seeding within it the disastrous decline of his house and the death of the last of the dragons. Jaehaerys I –Great Great grandsire Baelon- Great grandsire. Viserys- grandsire telling the story. Important as it show’s Viserys was aware of some of the truth as Viserys chose Rhaenyra despite people pushing for Aegon II. Viserys knew something, or maybe didn’t know and they did. Aegon II- dad Jaehaera- Which again, makes one ask, what was happening then, which again, leads into the succesion crisis of 92ac and Bael the Bard and his war with his son at the wall. Im just trying to follow the clues where they lead me. Even if that means i was wrong else where. This isn't about being right or having the best or most interesting theory but just following clues. If these clues above dont strike you as curious and interesting than idk. Make of them what you will i guess. 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AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: I will say there is some room for err though on Bloodraven being the 995th. He may be the 994th. Hard to say for sure there. Though this doesn't change the length of rule for Bloodraven being 13 years or there being 13 generations or Targaryen Kings since Aegon I up to Bloodraven. Though this would change a little as now it would draw curiosity to who the actual 995th one is then, specially since his name seems lost to history, or wiped from history. Either way it still draws my attention to these same things. I just recently found something to help date Qhorgyles rule a little more through Denys Mallister. Who has been serving since 267 and watched Qhorgyle get elected. So Qhorgyle couldn't have been elected any sooner than 267 with it likely being at least a year later than that for Denys to be a candidate. At least based on Jon having served for at least a year before his choosing. Again though, this just helps pin point a little more about the lord commanders while changing little else about the stuff to do with Bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 298th- Jon Snow 299-300ac 1yr Under Joffery I and Tommen I 297th- Jeor Mormont 288-299ac 11 yrs Under Robert I and Joffery I 996th- Qorgyle 267?-288ac 21 yrs? (Person of interest under the time of Roberts Rebellion and service of Mance.) Under Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and Robert I 995th- ? 252-267Ac? 15 years? Under reign of Aegon V and Jaehaerys II? During time of Summerhall. 994th- Bloodraven 239-252ac 13 years...... wait a min. Under reign of Aegon V. 233 AC - 259 AC 993rd- Sleepy Jack ?-239ac became known as from Jack Musgood after Raymund Redbeard King beyond the Wall snuck south in 226ac during the Reing of King Maekar I Reign 221 AC - 233 AC So for any one interested, this is roughly the Lord Commanders of the Night's Watch as i can figure them so far. Sleepy Jack is a guess that he went on till then, as it's vague. I would think they'd kill him but meh. So maybe he is 992nd? This is all in an effort to better understand the event's and see what may be missing. Curious if anything else because what was driving these other kings south. If they're so proud of not kneeling and being free folk. When did the Others start coming or just anything else that might be gleaned from assembling the history. Im also curious if any other Targaryen King other than Jaehaerys fought at the wall at any other time. Im also curious when Leaf may have traveled south and how Bloodraven's plans may or may not be tied to Jenny of Old Stone and Prince Duncan. After Qorgyle's death, Jeor Mormont was named Lord Commander in 288 AC.[1] Brynden rose to the position of Lord Commander of the Night's Watch in 239 AC.[1][8] However, he disappeared while ranging beyond the Wall in 252 AC.[1] Jack Musgood, know as Sleepy Jack after 226 AC, when he was caught off guard allowing the King-beyond-the-Wall, Raymun Redbeard, to pass the Wall and was thus late for the Battle of Long Lake. This drew the forces of House Umber and House Stark to Long Lake, where Raymun and Lord Willam Stark were killed in battle Denys has been the commander of the Shadow Towerfor thirty-three years (since 267 AC), and a candidate in the two last elections of Lords Commander of the Night's Watch.[3] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 Prince Duncan and Jenny of Old Stones. Who fall in love in 239ac and die at Summerhall together in 259Ac. This means that they were together for 20 years and very likely had children. This is why im curious about Bloodraven, Leaf and the Woods Witch as this is the same year Brynden rose to the position of Lord Commander of the Night's Watch in 239 AC who had been there since 233Ac when Aegon V took the throne. Summerhall happened in 259, 20 years later and i've already asked else where about Jenny and Prince Duncan possibly having children who survived Summerhal. This was posed while exploring who Varys really is as he seems to be protecting Rhaegar's son. Varys came to Westeros the year before Rhaegar's unlikely engagement to Elia Martell whom he wed for duty and not love. Yet his father disapproved of it and it angered Tywin who hoped Rhaegar would wed Cersei. Martell are also not a strong house. So i wondered about Varys and his intentions and why they might be. This man who dresses and looks much like Aegon V and chose Illyrio as his protector as Aegon had Duncan. Varys who protects Aegon and opposed Daenerys. I did a thread about Alysanne cheating and House Targaryen being of Stark Blood now. This would be important into everything if trying to figure out what Bloodraven or maybe Varys are up to. Rhaegar who may or may not be the son of Aerys but maybe Ser Bonifer Hasty. Meaning, Rhaegar may not have as much Stark blood as Daenerys (If Daenerys is really the child of Aerys or Eddard). Some of these are ifs but worth exploring to try and figure out some of these other characters. A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV "Surely you did not think I'd forgotten about your sweet innocent, my lord? The queen most certainly has not." "No," Ned pleaded, his voice cracking. "Varys, gods have mercy, do as you like with me, but leave my daughter out of your schemes. Sansa's no more than a child." "Rhaenys was a child too. Prince Rhaegar's daughter. A precious little thing, younger than your girls. She had a small black kitten she called Balerion, did you know? I always wondered what happened to him. Rhaenys liked to pretend he was the true Balerion, the Black Dread of old, but I imagine the Lannisters taught her the difference between a kitten and a dragon quick enough, the day they broke down her door." Varys gave a long weary sigh, the sigh of a man who carried all the sadness of the world in a sack upon his shoulders. "The High Septon once told me that as we sin, so do we suffer. If that's true, Lord Eddard, tell me … why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones? Ponder it, if you would, while you wait upon the queen. And spare a thought for this as well: The next visitor who calls on you could bring you bread and cheese and the milk of the poppy for your pain … or he could bring you Sansa's head. No mention of Aegon dying and Varys seems legit sad about Rhaenys. Then A Dance with Dragons - Epilogue "Aegon?" For a moment he did not understand. Then he remembered. A babe swaddled in a crimson cloak, the cloth stained with his blood and brains. "Dead. He's dead." "No." The eunuch's voice seemed deeper. "He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them." He mentions saving him and protecting him. Both times to dying condemned men. Torrhen Stark Arryn Arryn I I I I-----------------------------I I-----------------I I Son Lady Stark ==== Ronnel Arryn Jonos Lady Royce=== Hubert Arryn I I Daughter ============================Son I I I Daela========Rodrik Arryn I Viserys I ==========Aemma Arryn I Rhaenyra=====Daemon I Aegon III the Dragon Bane All these things i think mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepbollywood Motte Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 9 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Except not really. When is there Lannister blood in House Targaryen? or House Stark? Velaryon wouldn't have Stark blood either. If I would let myself make as many assumptions based on pure speculation as you do I think I could make a strong case for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Will it go down in history that Robb's mother gave him war time council? Who will write the history even? Will she even get mentioned? By your logic we shouldn't be curious about her then? Of course, Catelyn had a huge role in what happened before and during the war of the five kings. She kid napped Tyrion which triggered Tywin's reaction of sending men into her homeland to raid the Riverlands. She negotiated a marriage for her son Robb Stark with Walder Frey so Robb's army could pass and rescue Riverrun. She also released Robb's most valuable hostage, Jaime Lannister without Robb's permission. Then she later died with Robb during the Red Wedding. These are all pretty major things. Also Robb's war was centered around Cat's homeland so her being there is justified in that sense. Where as there were no battles in the North during Robert's Rebellion. So it wouldn't make sense for Lyarra Stark( if she was alive) to follow Ned south and advise him on lands and people she knows nothing about. Lyarra was born a Stark and died a Stark. She didn't have connections to the south like Catelyn did. 4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: What's your point? I already said it may not apply here and was stuff based on the other theories. My point? I was just correcting you. When you said. 9 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: the sibling groups would still be there i just had wrong possibly who was attached to which. This would postulate that it would be Jon, Dany and Val. In your theory here Jon would be the cousin of Dany and Val. Not a sibling. Unless I read it wrong. If I'm to understand your theory I have to be able to question something that I see as a mistake or don't understand. Thus is how we can have a proper discussion, right? There is no reason to get defensive about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Of course, Catelyn had a huge role in what happened before and during the war of the five kings. She kid napped Tyrion which triggered Tywin's reaction of sending men into her homeland to raid the Riverlands. She negotiated a marriage for her son Robb Stark with Walder Frey so Robb's army could pass and rescue Riverrun. She also released Robb's most valuable hostage, Jaime Lannister without Robb's permission. Then she later died with Robb during the Red Wedding. These are all pretty major things. Also Robb's war was centered around Cat's homeland so her being there is justified in that sense. Where as there were no battles in the North during Robert's Rebellion. So it wouldn't make sense for Lyarra Stark( if she was alive) to follow Ned south and advise him on lands and people she knows nothing about. Lyarra was born was Stark and died a Stark. She didn't have the connection the south like Catelyn did. My point? I was just correcting you. When you said. In your theory here Jon would be the cousin of Dany and Val. Not a sibling. Unless I read it wrong. If I'm to understand your theory I have to be able to question something that I see as a mistake or don't understand. Thus is how we can have a proper discussion, right? There is no reason to get defensive about it. Not offended just typing quick and being disregarding. My point was still that that isn't tied to this thread, other wise i would have included it. And yes you corrected and err i made in the prior comment where i just threw out some names real quick and haphazardly when typing my response quickly and trying to briefly try and merge the two ideas. But ultimately not important here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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