Dorian Martell's son Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: Yes, there is but this sight is so big that say searching Aerys could bring up tons of threads not specifically dealing with what I was trying to propose. But if you search Aerys and the words he spoke on the TV show there are far fewer replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said: But if you search Aerys and the words he spoke on the TV show there are far fewer replies My apologies, maybe my searching skills aren't up to par! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said: Thanks. No clear clues one way or the other, granted but then, if this was important (it probably is not and crackpot on my part, but fun nonetheless) hell, thought crossed my mind, I shared it... and thanks for your participation To be honest, I wouldn't say there are no clues one way or another... There are no clues pointing towards Aerys having had visions, which means it's not impossible. But the absence of textual proof that he didn't have visions shouldn't be taken as a hint that he did imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 29 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: To be honest, I wouldn't say there are no clues one way or another... There are no clues pointing towards Aerys having had visions, which means it's not impossible. But the absence of textual proof that he didn't have visions shouldn't be taken as a hint that he did imo. I am overall of the opinion that quoting bits of text to "prove" (not saying in any way you do) foreshadow something and that if you cannot provide that it will not come to pass, is not always the right way to go about it. Yes, oftentimes George foreshadows but not always and people oftentimes go beside themselves analysing say the repetition of a word such as "soup" or something. I prefer, my personal, more global approach to this, but I did state clearly that this particular post could be just crackpot" and nothing else lol. Still, I do prefer to get a feeling for where the narrative maybe going (plot wise) without having to quote numerous incidents of the word "table" or something. Not saying you do that and nothing wrong with people who favour that approach, but I can't help but feeling that unless someone can quote 20 million quotes with the relevant word, they are considered "unscientic" as it were. Not quoting you in any way but I feel in this forum sometimes than unless one quotes a ton of text with say a relevant word i.e. "cloak" your overall feel for where the narrative is going or could be going is simply dismissed as "un-cannon" or something. But still with this post, I was brainstorming and I am not even convinced 100% myself. I just thought to see what other people thought lol Yes, of course it was unsubstantiated but I did wonder if anyone esle had that feeling... My view is that if every single thing and twist in this series can be predicted by analyzing the text the author would to a degree lose his ability to surprise and I don't think that will happen. The alternative is to believe that George rewards his "treasures" by analysing not the meaning of his words as much as the letters, which I doubt a lot too. But hey, just my humble opinion here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 23 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: Just wondering, we all talk those last words from the Mad King as his increased paranoia and, what can only call, a sadistic desire to burn his city. Now, why burn your city??? full of enemies??? likely but still... Now, the safest way to bury your own under threat from the Others and their minions is to "burn them all..." I’m typing is a small soft voice. As far as the Westeros citizens know the Others haven’t existed for some thousand years. The story opens with a with an introduction to the Others that happens north of the Wall. 23 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: I doubt very much Aerys knew about this threat directly, but would it be possible in his "madness" or let's venture to say "visions" and that he just wanted to ensure that "his dead stayed dead" probably not referring to what was happening there and then but "via vision" or something what could happen.... My assumption is that Aerys was not basing his plan to burn KL on any threat posed by the Others. 23 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: is what he meant and that he was misinterpreted by Jaime for one... Could be totally, totally tin foil but the thought just stroke me and couldn't let it go lol I’ll give you some tin foil of my own. There was a ruffling of feathers betwixt Aerys and Tywin which has not been fully explained. What say Aerys wasn’t mad as a hatter? What say his paranoia about losing the Throne had merit? What say Aerys’ trusted maester, Pycelle, was dosing the King and feeding into the fear that Aerys’ rule was being threatened & that people were plotting against him? Tyrion and Pycelle (a Lannister lackey) have a little chat: A Clash of Kings - Tyrion VI Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king . . . I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly . . ." "How many have you betrayed, I wonder? Aerys, Eddard Stark, me . . . King Robert as well? Lord Arryn, Prince Rhaegar? Where does it begin, Pycelle?" 23 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: I'm aware that the reference is also to wyldefire, but in any even wyldefire might killl WWs too... Yes, as exhibited during the Blackwater Bay battle wild fire is force to be reckoned with. Water does not quench its thirst. So, yes, wild fire could be an asset when confronting the wights. The thing of it is that the Others/White Walkers show themselves at twilight as darkness is approaching and their weakness seems to be dragon glass/frozen fire/obsidian. And let’s not forget --- people in story can’t seem to make up their mind as to whether the cold brings the Others/WW or whether the Others/WW bring the cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: I’m typing is a small soft voice. As far as the Westeros citizens know the Others haven’t existed for some thousand years. The story opens with a with an introduction to the Others that happens north of the Wall. My assumption is that Aerys was not basing his plan to burn KL on any threat posed by the Others. I’ll give you some tin foil of my own. There was a ruffling of feathers betwixt Aerys and Tywin which has not been fully explained. What say Aerys wasn’t mad as a hatter? What say his paranoia about losing the Throne had merit? What say Aerys’ trusted maester, Pycelle, was dosing the King and feeding into the fear that Aerys’ rule was being threatened & that people were plotting against him? Tyrion and Pycelle (a Lannister lackey) have a little chat: A Clash of Kings - Tyrion VI Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king . . . I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly . . ." "How many have you betrayed, I wonder? Aerys, Eddard Stark, me . . . King Robert as well? Lord Arryn, Prince Rhaegar? Where does it begin, Pycelle?" Yes, as exhibited during the Blackwater Bay battle wild fire is force to be reckoned with. Water does not quench its thirst. So, yes, wild fire could be an asset when confronting the wights. The thing of it is that the Others/White Walkers show themselves at twilight as darkness is approaching and their weakness seems to be dragon glass/frozen fire/obsidian. And let’s not forget --- people in story can’t seem to make up their mind as to whether the cold brings the Others/WW or whether the Others/WW bring the cold. I could ascribe to your ideas too, I have to say. Yes, I know that in the story, unless Aerys had "visions" or something there is no way it could happen. My conjecture was could Aerys have had some visions to make him further paranoid for fire? I guess... Now, you observations are all very good in my humble opinion. Of course we cannot make up our minds, re the Others, only theorise wildly at this stage because we lack a lot of information... Love your post though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 H&H Magnum Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 On 2/9/2018 at 9:38 PM, Morgana Lannister said: Just wondering, we all talk those last words from the Mad King as his increased paranoia and, what can only call, a sadistic desire to burn his city. Now, why burn your city??? full of enemies??? likely but still... Now, the safest way to bury your own under threat from the Others and their minions is to "burn them all..." I doubt very much Aerys knew about this threat directly, but would it be possible in his "madness" or let's venture to say "visions" and that he just wanted to ensure that "his dead stayed dead" probably not referring to what was happening there and then but "via vision" or something what could happen.... is what he meant and that he was misinterpreted by Jaime for one... Could be totally, totally tin foil but the thought just stroke me and couldn't let it go lol I'm aware that the reference is also to wyldefire, but in any even wyldefire might killl WWs too... We do not yet have any clues from the text. But yes, it is possible that Aerys really meant to burn the Others or the wights that will be created by the Others. There are three ways Aerys would know of the future: a) he has visions like Daenys, b ) Bran spoke to him in a dream, c) Bloodraven spoke to him in a dream. Dreams are not very effective mediums of communication. It is greater the likelihood of the receiver misunderstanding the message. The ability to see the future as accurately as Daenys is rare. I don't think Aerys had that gift. The other two are more likely. Aerys received instructions through his dreams that he needed burn the city. Nobody told him when. Nobody told him how. All those crazy dreams of the dead coming back is going to drive any man mad. Repeat this dream over and over and the poor dreamer will go mad. For lack of a peaceful sleep if for nothing else. Zombies coming to get you in your dreams will drive you mad if it's repeated often enough. Wildfire will most likely kill the wights and the Others too. Aerys didn't have dragons so that is the best he could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 When Aerys saw the blood on his blade, he demanded to know if it was Lord Tywin's. "I want him dead, the traitor. I want his head, you'll bring me his head, or you'll burn with all the rest. All the traitors. Rossart says they are inside the walls! He's gone to make them a warm welcome. Whose blood? Whose?" ASOS Jamie II Yep, Morgana, I suffer the same problem you do with the show. The memories of dialogue combine and muddle. However, that's the quote from the text above and "you'll burn with the rest" is as good as "burn them all" in my mind. Though I don't necessarily think Aerys had visions of the Others I do think he had a spider who's aim was to upset the rule of the land whispering in his ear. I've been studying the Targ Kings with a friend and that peculiar fascination and hope in fire as the end all beat all is prevalent throughout. I doubt it was a hard thing to bend Aerys' obsession to utter madness with the right words and encouragement. Paranoid people are very scary. Aerys' instability under the extreme stress of the final days as king likely saw him surrender completely to his madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 This is a crackpot idea that I’ve had for a while, but the descriptions of the head Starks sometimes gets weird. Ned struggles mightily with the heat. Catelyn describes Robb as becoming increasingly hard and cold and she notes that she begins to see Ned in him for the first time. Sansa’s later chapters show her to be almost compelled toward cold. Enthralled with it. Maybe there was a reason why Rickard the head Stark was burned in that fashion? Why Aerys was obsessed with the Starks? There’s a logical explanation for all of this: Ned’s heat-intolerance was about being out of his element and in the wrong place. Robb was just growing up. Sansa was that homesick. Aerys just like burning folks. But there being something weird about the Starks (especially the head/oldest Stark?) plays into the idea that There Must Always be a Stark at Winterfell and it’s just more fun to chew on. Just because you’re crazy doesn’t mean you’re necessarily wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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