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Rhom

NFL Offseason '18: Our American Cousins

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Thought I'd go with a little Lincoln humor there in the title... an assassination in Washington... what's not to laugh about there????

So anyway... when last we left off; PQJ was off in a dirty alley somewhere turning tricks for whatever drug will help her forget her lost love for McDaniels, Rock was off in a Boston slum lamenting the fact that PQJ's love is coming back to his town, Tywin is lamenting the total destruction of cap space that is required to sign a QB with a pulse and a healthy knee, and Niners fans everywhere are putting up near pornographic posters of Jimmy G.

Oh... and we debate whether Shaquan Barkley is the greatest running back since Walter Peyton or something.

Commence discussion.

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@dmc515

Quote

Hope all the teams in the top ten agree with you - would love if he fell to the niners.

CBS Sports Mock Draft has him falling to the Niners at 9.  I'd probably be okay with the pick at that point.  With a QB in place and what was turning into a decent offensive line towards the end of the season, I think you can afford to take a playmaker there.  Would be interesting to see him share a backfield with Carlos Hyde, but the article assumes he's leaving in free agency.

Figured I'd share the official draft order just for reference.

1. Cleveland (0-16) .520

2. New York Giants (3-13) .531

3. Indianapolis (4-12) .480

4. Cleveland - from Houston (4-12) .516

5. Denver (5-11) .492

6. New York Jets (5-11) .520

7. Tampa Bay (5-11) .555

8. Chicago (5-11) .559

9. San Francisco (6-10)# .512

10. Oakland (6-10)# .512

11. Miami (6-10) .543

12. Cincinnati (7-9) .465

13. Washington (7-9) .539

14. Green Bay (7-9) .539

15. Arizona (8-8) .488

16. Baltimore (9-7) .441

17. Los Angeles Chargers (9-7) .457

18. Seattle (9-7) .492

19. Dallas (9-7) .496

20. Detroit (9-7) .496

21. Buffalo* (9-7) .492

22. Buffalo - from Kansas City* (10-6) .477

23. Los Angeles Rams* (11-5) .504

24. Carolina* (11-5) .539

25. Tennessee* (9-7) .434

26. Atlanta* (10-6) .543

27. New Orleans* (11-5) .535

28. Pittsburgh* (13-3) .453

29. Jacksonville* (10-6) .434

30. Minnesota* (13-3) .492

31. New England* (13-3) .484

32. Philadelphia* (13-3) .461


 

Edited by Rhom

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3 hours ago, Rhom said:

CBS Sports Mock Draft has him falling to the Niners at 9.  I'd probably be okay with the pick at that point.  With a QB in place and what was turning into a decent offensive line towards the end of the season, I think you can afford to take a playmaker there.  Would be interesting to see him share a backfield with Carlos Hyde, but the article assumes he's leaving in free agency.

Yeah I saw that one, looked pretty good to me.  If the niners go offense with the pick, I think it's either Barkley or Nelson right now.  Not a big believer in Ridley and no other receivers look worth it - although some guys shoot up the board at the combine, especially at WR.  I agree with your notion on taking tackles, but with all their other needs that'd seem like bad asset management considering they got Staley and Brown.  Meanwhile, Nelson might be the highest ever rated guard I can recall, and that's a pretty big need.

Of course, most mocks have them going defense which I'd be fine with.  Corner and edge rusher are the biggest needs but maybe (hopefully?) that changes with free agency.  I'd also be fine trading down, especially if it works out that they can gouge some team still looking for a QB, but gotta admit I'd be disappointed if they did so with Barkley still on the board.

Also, while it's indicated by the "#," should be noted the niners and raiders still have a coin flip to determine the ninth and tenth picks.  Think I read that happens at the combine.

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It has to be Frank Reich.

It has to be. We have no OC. 

We have a DC. Frazier is a DC. 

PC Principal is nothing.

If it's Reich we have a Dream of Spring. We have to get through the Winds of Winter first.

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If it please the court, I have prepared a statement....

 

Thank you, honorable judge @Maithanet . I will attempt to be brief. 

 

Who among us is perfect? Is it You, sitting there presuming to judge me? I think not. What is it you came here to see? Did you click on this thread in hopes of witnessing an attack on the shitheel Patriots and their Donald Trump loving team? Perhaps it was a pronunciation of doom upon the boy wonder himself you sought? But it doesn't really matter does it?

You don't care what I stand For, so long as I stand for something

You do not seek a center around which to rally, only a pole from which to measure your own inconsequential determination of the sport.

If that's what you want, who am I to deny it to you?

 

GODDAMN FUCKING PATRIOTS FUCK GODDAMIT DUCK I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEM

THOS E NEW ENGLAND PUKES MAKE ME SICJER THAN @Jaime L 's dog after it eats the Epitact off HIS FUCKING EARLOBES DON'T VOTBER WITH DENIALS YOU HALFASSED GENIUS! I KNOW YOUR SEKRETS 

IT'S ALL ROGGED 

ROGGED! THEY SAID I COULDN'T WIN, THE FENCE WAS IN! IT WAS ROGGED FOR CREAKY @Kalbear 

But I WON! I'M IN NOW BABY AND THE WHOLE WORLD FONNA HEAR ABOUT JACE AND THE JIANT BEAN POD!

JACE NEW! JACE NEW! FAKE KNEWS!

JACE NOWED IT WEREN'T GON BE MCSNAKE'ELS IN INDY! JACE SMAET 

WE CAUTH THEM DIDN'T WE!?! OK WE CAUTH THEM BIG TIME! THEY RYODE THEY WAS NEVVER GON GET KAUT BUT WE QETCHED THEM!

IS SO FUN! LIKE THE GRWAT SLUTH. 

FAKE MOSE! IT'S ALL FAKE

There is no god. We all die alone. SAD!

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5 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

If it please the court, I have prepared a statement....

 

Thank you, honorable judge @Maithanet . I will attempt to be brief. 

 

Who among us is perfect? Is it You, sitting there presuming to judge me? I think not. What is it you came here to see? Did you click on this thread in hopes of witnessing an attack on the shitheel Patriots and their Donald Trump loving team? Perhaps it was a pronunciation of doom upon the boy wonder himself you sought? But it doesn't really matter does it?

You don't care what I stand For, so long as I stand for something

You do not seek a center around which to rally, only a pole from which to measure your own inconsequential determination of the sport.

If that's what you want, who am I to deny it to you?

 

GODDAMN FUCKING PATRIOTS FUCK GODDAMIT DUCK I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEM

THOS E NEW ENGLAND PUKES MAKE ME SICJER THAN @Jaime L 's dog after it eats the Epitact off HIS FUCKING EARLOBES DON'T VOTBER WITH DENIALS YOU HALFASSED GENIUS! I KNOW YOUR SEKRETS 

IT'S ALL ROGGED 

ROGGED! THEY SAID I COULDN'T WIN, THE FENCE WAS IN! IT WAS ROGGED FOR CREAKY @Kalbear 

But I WON! I'M IN NOW BABY AND THE WHOLE WORLD FONNA HEAR ABOUT JACE AND THE JIANT BEAN POD!

JACE NEW! JACE NEW! FAKE KNEWS!

JACE NOWED IT WEREN'T GON BE MCSNAKE'ELS IN INDY! JACE SMAET 

WE CAUTH THEM DIDN'T WE!?! OK WE CAUTH THEM BIG TIME! THEY RYODE THEY WAS NEVVER GON GET KAUT BUT WE QETCHED THEM!

IS SO FUN! LIKE THE GRWAT SLUTH. 

FAKE MOSE! IT'S ALL FAKE

There is no god. We all die alone. SAD!

Well... they did hire Frank Reich.

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7 hours ago, Rhom said:

Well... they did hire Frank Reich.

I am very high.

I spilled my juice on my keyboard before going to work and now the M key is quite sticky.

I sprayed glass cleaner on it, and then bleach and also some other cleany stuff.

I was able to remove and clean the SPACE key, a necessity as it was borderline unusable.

I have a delicious meal in the oven.

I HATE the Patriots.

But do I?

Eh.

Weirdly, I bet I'll fucking loathe them if we get a W in the Fox burro.

I wasn't able to fit in my rant above that I want to remind people that Tommy is 41 years youngish.

That's the same year Brett Favre's arms were replaced by Wrangler Jeans.

I am very high.

Do you know the muffin man?

Jabaal Sheard is the only Colt to make the PFF's top 101 list.

:crying:

I approve of this third Reich tenure.

Jace wishes sad.

Real.

Comfortable.

Jeans.

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I'd say PQJ is losing it but that requires once having it. 

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14 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

I'd say PQJ is losing it but that requires once having it. 

:agree: 

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NFL quarterbacks aging is a lot like going bankrupt:  slowly, then all at once.  Manning and Favre both put up arguably their best seasons ever, and then were completely done a year later.  Brady is better than either of them at avoiding the big hit, but still sometimes it's inevitable.  The Patriots were middle of the pack last year in terms of qb hits and sacks.  Brady protects himself by getting the ball out very fast, but he also exposes himself because the Patriots throw the ball more than most teams. 

I remember saying last offseason that Brady could be done at any time.  He could be terrible in 2017 and retire without fanfare.  He could be great in 2017, but finished in 2018.  He could be great in 2017 and 2018, but finished after that.  But I then made the (relatively tame) prediction that Brady had no more than two good years.  Now obviously Brady was great in 2017.  But I stand by my statement that while Brady may or may not be great this coming year, this is coming year Brady's final chance to win a SB as a great player (unless the Pats drag him to a championship later on, a la Manning in Denver). 

Edited by Maithanet

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

NFL quarterbacks aging is a lot like going bankrupt:  slowly, then all at once.  Manning and Favre both put up arguably their best seasons ever, and then were completely done a year later.  Brady is better than either of them at avoiding the big hit, but still sometimes it's inevitable.  The Patriots were middle of the pack last year in terms of qb hits and sacks.  Brady protects himself by getting the ball out very fast, but he also exposes himself because the Patriots throw the ball more than most teams. 

I remember saying last offseason that Brady could be done at any time.  He could be terrible in 2017 and retire without fanfare.  He could be great in 2017, but finished in 2018.  He could be great in 2017 and 2018, but finished after that.  But I then made the (relatively tame) prediction that Brady had no more than two good years.  Now obviously Brady was great in 2017.  But I stand by my statement that while Brady may or may not be great this coming year, this is coming year Brady's final chance to win a SB as a great player (unless the Pats drag him to a championship later on, a la Manning in Denver). 

Ditto. The Tom vs Time story is compelling, but the funny thing is that he's never actually going to 'win'. Even the most Bill Simmons of vegetables understand that the cliff is just around the corner.

Regarding Manning. He had his 55TD season, then the next he threw for 40 (tied with Luck for league lead) but was clearly cooked after about week 10.

I saw Brady floating passes in the AFC Championship and the Superbowl. Obviously I wasn't actually paying attention to their Divisional game.

I point out the floated passes because I can't remember seeing Brady repeatedly be off target since before the Republican party fully revealed themselves as the reptilian slaveholders they really are.

Now with that said, he threw for 500 yards in the SB. So I'm not PREDICTING anything for next year. It just bears mentioning that the dude ain't even outlasted Warren Moon yet.

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3 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I saw Brady floating passes in the AFC Championship and the Superbowl. Obviously I wasn't actually paying attention to their Divisional game.

I point out the floated passes because I can't remember seeing Brady repeatedly be off target since before the Republican party fully revealed themselves as the reptilian slaveholders they really are.

Now with that said, he threw for 500 yards in the SB. So I'm not PREDICTING anything for next year. It just bears mentioning that the dude ain't even outlasted Warren Moon yet.

He missed some makeable passes, but all quarterbacks miss open people sometimes, particularly when both the Eagles and Jags were trying to clamp down on routes under 15 yards and making Brady take more high risk-high reward shots. 

I didn't see any real signs that Brady no longer had it.  He was excellent.  If the Patriots had a pretty good quarterback like Alex Smith instead, they would have lost to both Jacksonville and Philly by double digits.

But trying to squint and maybe see the decline of Brady's play in 2017 misses the forest for the trees.  When quarterback's age, it's usually because of injury, and the inability to recover from injury like a younger man can.  Brady only took one really big shot in the Jacksonville game (from Myles Jack I believe), but sometimes it only takes one hit landing wrong, and your body just can't do it anymore.  That day is coming for Brady, and it will happen abruptly. 

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3 hours ago, Jaime L said:

I'd say PQJ is losing it but that requires once having it. 

/thread.

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29 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

He missed some makeable passes, but all quarterbacks miss open people sometimes, particularly when both the Eagles and Jags were trying to clamp down on routes under 15 yards and making Brady take more high risk-high reward shots. 

I didn't see any real signs that Brady no longer had it.  He was excellent.  If the Patriots had a pretty good quarterback like Alex Smith instead, they would have lost to both Jacksonville and Philly by double digits.

But trying to squint and maybe see the decline of Brady's play in 2017 misses the forest for the trees.  When quarterback's age, it's usually because of injury, and the inability to recover from injury like a younger man can.  Brady only took one really big shot in the Jacksonville game (from Myles Jack I believe), but sometimes it only takes one hit landing wrong, and your body just can't do it anymore.  That day is coming for Brady, and it will happen abruptly. 

No doubt. Like I said, I never saw him very obviously miss a throw so frequently as the last two games.

But I said during the Jags game when he was floating balls that it was probably the cut. Even in the SB it's very possible that his thumb was extremely stiff.

You're absolutely right though, it's just a few possible outliers and he showed no diminished ability to go deep and that's what ultimately did in Manning. When he came back from the neck injury his arm strength was probably 80% of his heyday, and that was plenty to throw 55 TD's in one season on two sprained ankles.

But halfway through 2014 that deep ball range shrunk drastically. He went from putting nice 50 yarders on E-Man to clearly struggling to get the ball even 35 yards down the field.

How many times did we see in late 14 and throughout 15 the Broncos come out and Manning would try to go deep like 6 times in the opening quarter? The answer is a fucking lot. It was almost always Emmanuel Sanders going on a deep post-ish route (Sanders ran weird routes that I really liked) trying to split the Cover 2 people were squeezing the offense with.

And Sanders was usually pretty wide the fuck open too, but I only remember one or two times the ball was where it needed to be.

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On 11-2-2018 at 6:06 PM, Pony Queen Jace said:

If it please the court, I have prepared a statement....

 

Thank you, honorable judge @Maithanet . I will attempt to be brief. 

 

Who among us is perfect? Is it You, sitting there presuming to judge me? I think not. What is it you came here to see? Did you click on this thread in hopes of witnessing an attack on the shitheel Patriots and their Donald Trump loving team? Perhaps it was a pronunciation of doom upon the boy wonder himself you sought? But it doesn't really matter does it?

You don't care what I stand For, so long as I stand for something

You do not seek a center around which to rally, only a pole from which to measure your own inconsequential determination of the sport.

If that's what you want, who am I to deny it to you?

 

GODDAMN FUCKING PATRIOTS FUCK GODDAMIT DUCK I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEM

THOS E NEW ENGLAND PUKES MAKE ME SICJER THAN @Jaime L 's dog after it eats the Epitact off HIS FUCKING EARLOBES DON'T VOTBER WITH DENIALS YOU HALFASSED GENIUS! I KNOW YOUR SEKRETS 

IT'S ALL ROGGED 

ROGGED! THEY SAID I COULDN'T WIN, THE FENCE WAS IN! IT WAS ROGGED FOR CREAKY @Kalbear 

But I WON! I'M IN NOW BABY AND THE WHOLE WORLD FONNA HEAR ABOUT JACE AND THE JIANT BEAN POD!

JACE NEW! JACE NEW! FAKE KNEWS!

JACE NOWED IT WEREN'T GON BE MCSNAKE'ELS IN INDY! JACE SMAET 

WE CAUTH THEM DIDN'T WE!?! OK WE CAUTH THEM BIG TIME! THEY RYODE THEY WAS NEVVER GON GET KAUT BUT WE QETCHED THEM!

IS SO FUN! LIKE THE GRWAT SLUTH. 

FAKE MOSE! IT'S ALL FAKE

There is no god. We all die alone. SAD!

 

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7 hours ago, Jaime L said:

I'd say PQJ is losing it but that requires once having it. 

Bow you pleb! 

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If you were making a list of the best NFL organizations, what would you pick?  In this case I'm defining best as "consistently and successfully working towards the goal of winning a championship".  Only one team wins each year and there's luck involved, so I understand that some well run organizations may have zero rings.  Organizations also change over time, so I'm looking for the ratings going forward.  The Redskins and Raiders were both premiere organizations through the early 90s, but have been mostly hot garbage since, so history doesn't matter.

The best and worst organizations are obvious.  But most of the league is in a sort of mushy middle where it is difficult to tell really good management vs luck.  So much of sustained success is dependent on having a quarterback and drafting well, and yet both those things are more luck than skill. 

Even as a hardcore NFL fan (which I consider myself to be) I don't feel like i have a good idea of organizational strength league wide.  I can comment on the NFC East teams and the terrible/excellent outliers across the league, but that's about it.  I have no idea if the Falcons are well run, or just lucky to have Matt Ryan.  Are the Bengals or Vikings or Chiefs average organizations that may never get over the hump, or well run organizations that have had bad luck and poor quarterbacking? 

So I'm gonna give some of my impressions, and maybe later try and put up a full 32 team rankings. 

Colts - They had Peyton Manning for his entire prime and won 1 super bowl, and 1 other AFC Championship.  Seriously, that's terrible.  Since he's been gone they've completely fell apart exactly the way a terrible organization would be expected to.

Saints - See Colts above.  Only one SB and one other conference game appearance despite how awesome Drew Brees is looks to me like a very poor organization.  I expect them to fall apart once Brees regresses in the next few years. 

Ravens - Virtually the only organization to consistently win playoff games this decade without a good quarterback.  That's not easy, and I'll give them credit. 

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2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

If you were making a list of the best NFL organizations, what would you pick?  In this case I'm defining best as "consistently and successfully working towards the goal of winning a championship".  Only one team wins each year and there's luck involved, so I understand that some well run organizations may have zero rings.  Organizations also change over time, so I'm looking for the ratings going forward.  The Redskins and Raiders were both premiere organizations through the early 90s, but have been mostly hot garbage since, so history doesn't matter.

The best and worst organizations are obvious.  But most of the league is in a sort of mushy middle where it is difficult to tell really good management vs luck.  So much of sustained success is dependent on having a quarterback and drafting well, and yet both those things are more luck than skill. 

Even as a hardcore NFL fan (which I consider myself to be) I don't feel like i have a good idea of organizational strength league wide.  I can comment on the NFC East teams and the terrible/excellent outliers across the league, but that's about it.  I have no idea if the Falcons are well run, or just lucky to have Matt Ryan.  Are the Bengals or Vikings or Chiefs average organizations that may never get over the hump, or well run organizations that have had bad luck and poor quarterbacking? 

So I'm gonna give some of my impressions, and maybe later try and put up a full 32 team rankings. 

Colts - They had Peyton Manning for his entire prime and won 1 super bowl, and 1 other AFC Championship.  Seriously, that's terrible.  Since he's been gone they've completely fell apart exactly the way a terrible organization would be expected to.

Saints - See Colts above.  Only one SB and one other conference game appearance despite how awesome Drew Brees is looks to me like a very poor organization.  I expect them to fall apart once Brees regresses in the next few years. 

Ravens - Virtually the only organization to consistently win playoff games this decade without a good quarterback.  That's not easy, and I'll give them credit. 

Jace's franchise power rankings:

 

I've broken the teams into the following tiers.

The Patriots-These teams are the NE Patriots

Pretty strong- These teams are generally in contention over the years. They aren't perfect, but solid team development is impossible to dispute.

More success than problems-This team is pretty well rounded, though maybe not a powerhouse.

Pretty Average- These teams have highs and lows, this is where luck is involved in a team's success.

Bad, even for the NFL-This is where the majority of the league resides. Just a mess due to inherited money and incompetent ownership.

Real bad- These teams are laughing stocks. We all enjoy throwing shade at them.

Pretty much dysfunctional- These teams have little hope.

The Browns-This team will never see the light of a 7 win season.

New England Patriots

New England Patriots

New England Patriots

New England Patriots

 

Now that the first tier has been established, let's continue.

Pretty strong:

Seahawks

Ravens

Steelers

 

More success than problems:

Chiefs

 

Pretty Average:

Broncos

Saints

Eagles

Falcons

Packers

Cardinals

Giants

Vikings

 

Bad, even for the NFL:

Tampa

Jaguars

Lions

Titans

Raidaz

Cowboys

 

Real bad:

Colts

Miami

Jets

Chargers

49'ers

Texans

 

Pretty much dysfunctional:

Bears

Washington

Bills

Bengals

 

The Browns:

Browns

 

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12 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Jace's franchise power rankings:

 

I've broken the teams into the following tiers.

The Patriots-These teams are the NE Patriots

Pretty strong- These teams are generally in contention over the years. They aren't perfect, but solid team development is impossible to dispute.

More success than problems-This team is pretty well rounded, though maybe not a powerhouse.

Pretty Average- These teams have highs and lows, this is where luck is involved in a team's success.

Bad, even for the NFL-This is where the majority of the league resides. Just a mess due to inherited money and incompetent ownership.

Real bad- These teams are laughing stocks. We all enjoy throwing shade at them.

Pretty much dysfunctional- These teams have little hope.

The Browns-This team will never see the light of a 7 win season.

New England Patriots

New England Patriots

New England Patriots

New England Patriots

 

Now that the first tier has been established, let's continue.

Pretty strong:

Seahawks

Ravens

Steelers

 

More success than problems:

Chiefs

 

Pretty Average:

Broncos

Saints

Eagles

Falcons

Packers

Cardinals

Giants

Vikings

 

Bad, even for the NFL:

Tampa

Jaguars

Lions

Titans

Raidaz

Cowboys

 

Real bad:

Colts

Miami

Jets

Chargers

49'ers

Texans

 

Pretty much dysfunctional:

Bears

Washington

Bills

Bengals

 

The Browns:

Browns

 

Panthers?

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