NFL Offseason '18: Our American Cousins

[Bronn Stone]

I like the moves Cleveland is making.  Seems to make a lot of sense.  And yes, the signs all point toward Barkley #1 overall at this point.

Of course, this is all contingent on learning WHICH picks they traded for Landry, who is barely worth a handful of beans at this point.  ETA it looks like a 4th this year and a 7th next.  Seems about right.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, briantw said:

I'd still be shocked if one of those first two picks they have isn't used on a QB.  

Do you have a ton of faith in any of the top QBs though?  I think Baker makes sense going in the 11-20 range and Jackson in the 20-32 range (no Idea where Rudolph should go) and I'd be happy if my team got either at those spots, but I've got concerns about Allen and Darnold, and to a way lesser extent, Rosen. Allen reminds me of Paxton Lynch for some reason, and I think Darnold will be a below average NFL QB. I only say him play a few times and I was not impressed. I feel like he's the guy who is OK to good at everything and great at nothing. That's not a top 5 pick IMO. And Allen feels like such a gamble. Again, I wouldn't risk that that high in the draft. Rosen genuinely confuses me. I thought all year he was the consensus top pick, but his stock keeps dropping and I don't know if the concerns are valid or just people overthinking it.

[briantw]

4 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

We've said that for 2 years.

Basically everyone last year agreed that Myles Garrett was the best player in the draft, so I don't think it was a bit shocking that they picked him, especially since it was a weak QB class.

And two years ago, they definitely would have taken Goff if they had the first pick or he had fallen to the second.

[briantw]

 

[Jace, Extat]

I'm strangely on board with Deshaun Kizer to Green Bay

[sperry]

Cleveland's moves have just been absolutely horrendous. Trading quality draft picks for guys their teams don't want, because they aren't good players.

[briantw]

11 minutes ago, sperry said:

Cleveland's moves have just been absolutely horrendous. Trading quality draft picks for guys their teams don't want, because they aren't good players.

They still have five picks in the top sixty-five and an ungodly amount of cap space.  They're not going to bring in 10+ rookies every year.

[Jace, Extat]

It doesn't sound like Jarvis Landry has (or will) sign an extension with the Browns.                      

[mcbigski]

Not thrilled with a 4th and 7th for Landry but its way better than having to cut Suh because they are over the cap.

[sperry]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

They still have five picks in the top sixty-five and an ungodly amount of cap space.  They're not going to bring in 10+ rookies every year.

 

It's not like they're a team contending for a title where it makes sense to overpay for guys in trades. The Taylor one is particularly brutal. There are plenty of bad starting QBs you can go find at no cost, what the hell are they doing trading a valuable pick for a guy so mediocre that his coach thought Nathan Peterman was a better option. They just lit these draft picks on fire for replacement level players.

[Jace, Extat]

4 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

It's not like they're a team contending for a title where it makes sense to overpay for guys in trades. The Taylor one is particularly brutal. There are plenty of bad starting QBs you can go find at no cost, what the hell are they doing trading a valuable pick for a guy so mediocre that his coach thought Nathan Peterman was a better option. They just lit these draft picks on fire for replacement level players.

If they trade with Buffalo again and snag Lamarr Jackson it could be genius.

I mean, it won't be. Because it's the Browns. But Jackson getting a development season behind a comparable QB? That'd be pretty great. Not as good as going to NO, but it's something.

[briantw]

13 minutes ago, sperry said:

It's not like they're a team contending for a title where it makes sense to overpay for guys in trades. The Taylor one is particularly brutal. There are plenty of bad starting QBs you can go find at no cost, what the hell are they doing trading a valuable pick for a guy so mediocre that his coach thought Nathan Peterman was a better option. They just lit these draft picks on fire for replacement level players.

Personally, I think that was more awful coaching decisions in Buffalo than Taylor.  And the media mostly killed them for the decision.  It also bit them in the ass, because Peterman came in and immediately proved that, while Taylor isn't amazing, he can actually play in the NFL.  Peterman cannot. 

Taylor's a perfectly serviceable QB.  He's basically a poor man's Alex Smith.  Manages games, doesn't make dumb mistakes.  A third was a bit of an overpay, sure, but it's hard to really care about a slight overpay for a decent starting QB when the team has two top four picks and five picks in the first two rounds.  

Also not sure why you think Landry isn't a good player.  He's overpaid (but again, the Browns have approximately a billion dollars in cap space), but he's a productive slot receiver with a high catch rate who is good at converting third downs.  The Browns are a team that had no slot receiver, but have a couple of guys who are potentially great on the outside.  If the Browns were bringing him in to be their number one, I wouldn't be a huge fan, but they've got Gordon and Coleman there already.

[Jace, Extat]

8 minutes ago, briantw said:

Also not sure why you think Landry isn't a good player.  He's overpaid (but again, the Browns have approximately a billion dollars in cap space), but he's a productive slot receiver with a high catch rate who is good at converting third downs.  The Browns are a team that had no slot receiver, but have a couple of guys who are potentially great on the outside.  If the Browns were bringing him in to be their number one, I wouldn't be a huge fan, but they've got Gordon and Coleman there already.

Thinking about it, the Browns can't be blamed for taking Landry. They have so many picks that it's kind of like the cap space. You have to spend them on something, why not take a rental? A 4th and 7th for Landry is nothing.

I think he's a moderate possession talent. His absolute ceiling is Reggie Wayne and he's no fucking Reggie Wayne at this moment.

But why not? With a mobile guy like Taylor (or maybe as I mentioned, Jackson, they could  get him unique catching situations.

[sperry]

21 minutes ago, briantw said:

Personally, I think that was more awful coaching decisions in Buffalo than Taylor.  And the media mostly killed them for the decision.  It also bit them in the ass, because Peterman came in and immediately proved that, while Taylor isn't amazing, he can actually play in the NFL.  Peterman cannot. 

Taylor's a perfectly serviceable QB.  He's basically a poor man's Alex Smith.  Manages games, doesn't make dumb mistakes.  A third was a bit of an overpay, sure, but it's hard to really care about a slight overpay for a decent starting QB when the team has two top four picks and five picks in the first two rounds.  

Also not sure why you think Landry isn't a good player.  He's overpaid (but again, the Browns have approximately a billion dollars in cap space), but he's a productive slot receiver with a high catch rate who is good at converting third downs.  The Browns are a team that had no slot receiver, but have a couple of guys who are potentially great on the outside.  If the Browns were bringing him in to be their number one, I wouldn't be a huge fan, but they've got Gordon and Coleman there already.

 

The Bills were going to cut Taylor this offseason. What was the market for him going to be? Cleveland is likely the only spot he'd have any shot of starting, so he'd end up there regardless.

 

Landry is a decent slot receiver. You can find those guys in the middle rounds of the draft, and you don't have to pay them the contract that they're going to have to give Landry. Everyone knew Miami wasn't interested in signing him long term.

[briantw]

6 minutes ago, sperry said:

Landry is a decent slot receiver. You can find those guys in the middle rounds of the draft, and you don't have to pay them the contract that they're going to have to give Landry. Everyone knew Miami wasn't interested in signing him long term.

I mean, Landry was fourth last season in receptions.  Sure, that's because bad QBs force him the ball, but that's his role.  He's a security blanket.

I agree he's going to be overpaid, but the Browns had over 100 million in cap space before today.  You honestly think they're spending all of that?  Overpaying for a guy isn't really a concern right now, and shouldn't be for a few more seasons.  I read that, after acquiring Taylor and Landry, the Browns still have the second most cap space this offseason.  Paying Landry 15 million is literally meaningless to them.  Well, maybe not to the owner, but to everyone else.

[briantw]

18 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Thinking about it, the Browns can't be blamed for taking Landry. They have so many picks that it's kind of like the cap space. You have to spend them on something, why not take a rental? A 4th and 7th for Landry is nothing.

I think he's a moderate possession talent. His absolute ceiling is Reggie Wayne and he's no fucking Reggie Wayne at this moment.

But why not? With a mobile guy like Taylor (or maybe as I mentioned, Jackson, they could  get him unique catching situations.

Yeah, as I've said, I'd be far more concerned with what the Browns were paying for these guys if they didn't have so much draft capital already.  Assuming they keep their firsts and seconds, that's five guys you'd expect to be either immediate starters or, if they pick a QB, a starter later in the season or the following season.  They don't really need a ton of their later picks, so trading them for players with proven production profiles isn't a bad move.  They also have so much cap space that the contracts don't really matter in the short term.

[Rhom]

The Niners are scheduled to talk to Richard Sherman.  

What the hell is this?!!? I don’t even know what to say here.

I was working on a Trump hiring Hillary analogy, but decided none of them are appropriate.

So in all seriousness, this must be how Cowboys fans felt at first when they talked to TO.

[sperry]

10 hours ago, briantw said:

Yeah, as I've said, I'd be far more concerned with what the Browns were paying for these guys if they didn't have so much draft capital already.  Assuming they keep their firsts and seconds, that's five guys you'd expect to be either immediate starters or, if they pick a QB, a starter later in the season or the following season.  They don't really need a ton of their later picks, so trading them for players with proven production profiles isn't a bad move.  They also have so much cap space that the contracts don't really matter in the short term.

They are trading picks that could actually help them win in 3-4 years for guys that are irrelevant today and won't be there in 3-4  years. That doesn't make any sense to me. Yes, you can spend the cap space on short term deals, but don't light your draft capital on fire.

 

I'll also say that the Taylor signing indicates they are drafting Josh Allen, as he's the one guy you don't want to run out there on day 1.

[sperry]

Dear lord this new Browns organization is about as dumb as you would expect from one proclaiming to be "old school." Now trading Danny Shelton for "conditional pick" from the Patriots. So, their first move as an organization have been to trade quality draft picks for players that their old teams didn't want, and then to make a trade with the organization known for consistently fleecing trading partners. Just brilliant.

[briantw]

2 hours ago, sperry said:

Dear lord this new Browns organization is about as dumb as you would expect from one proclaiming to be "old school." Now trading Danny Shelton for "conditional pick" from the Patriots. So, their first move as an organization have been to trade quality draft picks for players that their old teams didn't want, and then to make a trade with the organization known for consistently fleecing trading partners. Just brilliant.

Eh...Shelton is a solid player but he never lived up to his draft pedigree.  He's basically only useful on running downs, as he's not good at getting to the QB and he's not good in coverage.  Again, solid player, but it's a passing league now and he wasn't even playing on 50% of downs last year.  Plus, the Browns have a lot of other talented guys on that defensive line.

And if you want to know why the Browns are making a lot of moves now, this is it:

They went from being the NFL's version of a Siberian labor camp to a reasonably enticing free agency destination.  Now, they have a QB that is solid and other players respect, a good receiving corps, a solid overall defense, and the draft capital to add a starting RB (they've still got Duke as their change of pace back, and Duke is awesome), probably a future QB, and more defensive help.