Jump to content

How does Myrcella become queen?


lAPPYc

Recommended Posts

I have always held that Aegon will marry Myrcella as a part of some compromise with the Lannisters once he hears that Dany might be dead. But it's not a very popular opinion around the fandom. So how do people think that Myrcella is going to become a queen? I am of course assuming that the 'golden crowns' part in Maggy's prophecy wasn't merely a reference to her blond hair. Also, one other thing I want you to consider is that Cersei is probably going to make every effort to keep Myrcella from becoming queen once Tommen dies. She's already lost two children to the prophecy. She tried to fight the prophecy by framing Margaery, and was paraded naked across the city for her troubles. When Tommen dies, in my opinion, Cersei is going to try to spirit her maimed daughter as far away from the Iron Throne as possible, quite ironically, like Ned had asked her to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My take:

Margaery somehow loses her trial. The Queen of Thorns kills both herself and Tommen with sweetsleep in revenge against Cersei. Myrcella is crowned Queen of Westeros.

Cersei can't do a damn thing to keep Myrcella off the throne. All she could do is serve as regent for her, and maybe try to delay the coronation as long as possible. Besides which if she's gotten rid of Margaery she may think she's outrun Maggy's fortune, when in reality she's just made more of it happen. It would never occur to her that Myrcella or Daenerys, or Arianne (who she's never seen), or even Sansa, could be the YMBQ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think the dornish will have a lot to do with it, Nymeria and Tyene are on their way to KL with "Myrcella" (i personally belive its rosamund, and she also was cutted, but for this it doesn't matter which myrcella is the right one)

other than with tommen and Joffrey i think Myrcella will have her shroud before her crown.

one myrcella dies in kings landing, in a way that only cersei really gets it, and the other one will be married to Aegon by Doran.

And cersei, dumb as she is will be unsure which is the real myrcella and work against Myrcella 2 cause she belives she is the younger mor beautiful queen

and when the tears drowned her euron greyjoy will wrap his hands about her pale white throat and choke the life from her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Myrcella happened to return to KL she could become a fortnight queen or the queen for a day if something happened to Tommen before Aegon arrives in the city.

If her Dornish party was to be captured by the Golden Company en route to KL she could first become Aegon's hostage and then his wife to help him take the Iron Throne once Tommen is dealt with - either after he takes KL by force, or after Varys murdered Tommen (something that should be a little bit more difficult than murdering Kevan but not so much).

She could then be quickly replaced by Arianne as queen at Aegon's side when Jon Connington makes good of his promise to end the bloodline of the Usurper. If Aegon does marry Myrcella I expect to see another version of a queenly murder/accident as we saw it with Helaena and Jaehaera during/after the Dance.

Those spears and spikes in the dry moat around Maegor's Holdfast are far too prominent to not become relevant later in the story.

But it is also possible, of course, that King Tommen is going to tumble into the dry moat to die there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If Myrcella happened to return to KL she could become a fortnight queen or the queen for a day if something happened to Tommen before Aegon arrives in the city.

I can't say I like the possibility of a fortnight queen. Myrcella's death will end Cersei's arc, and I feel that Cersei is the villain that will go last. It is just better for the narrative; we have been hating her since the 1st book, what will we hate in ADoS? I don't think the Others qualify.

Chances of her Dornish party being captured by Aegon are minimal. Kevan knew about Aegon's invasion, even had a hand painted map to show for it. He also knew that Myrcella's party was coming, but all he was thinking about was making preparations for their arrival. So if he wasn't worried about her capture(And he will know that Connington will love to get Myrcella as a hostage) even after knowing which I think were most of the relevant details, I don't think the capture is logistically possible.

Quote

she could first become Aegon's hostage and then his wife to help him take the Iron Throne once Tommen is dealt with

I don't think he needs any legitimization of his claim that he will marry Myrcella. After Tommen's death, there's nothing left for the Tyrells to keep defending the Red Keep against him, and it is Mace Tyrell that will most likely hold it now, and the westermen are a continent away with no one to unite them. Myrcella would just be a hostage once Tommen dies. But how does she become queen?

The problem with your plot is that it will be over far too quickly. The news of Dany's death will take time to travel to Westeros, and Aegon won't marry anyone till then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Margaery somehow loses her trial. The Queen of Thorns kills both herself and Tommen with sweetsleep in revenge against Cersei.

TQoT doesn't need to kill herself. The Tyrells control KL right now, so Margaery losing her trial is very improbable. But even if she does, the Tyrells will then serve Tommen up to Aegon. The westermen are a continent away and without a leader, may not be able to come quick enough. But even if they do, the Tyrells, the Dornismen, and the GC will make short work of them.

Quote

Cersei can't do a damn thing to keep Myrcella off the throne. All she could do is serve as regent for her, and maybe try to delay the coronation as long as possible.

She can surrender to Aegon, in order to keep a crown from Myrcella's head.

The tales of a beautiful queen with three dragons have reached KL. I don't think Cersei will ignore these tales. She already didn't think that Margaery was beautiful enough to qualify as the younger, more beautiful queen that could take her down. She killed Margaery, as you suppose, and then her son still died. The prophecy is still coming true, and there are tales of another beautiful queen, a Targaryen queen who must surely come to marry her nephew, a Targaryen queen three dragons. C'mon, Cersei's not dumb enough to not try her damndest to keep Myrcella on the throne. She will surrender to Aegon.

My guess is that after the surrender, the news of how Dany's dragons killed Quentyn will travel to KL. The Dornishmen, already angry that there was peace with the Lannisters, will revolt, and then Aegon is saved by the Lannisters, under the leadership Jaime, who was thinking about Myrcella's future in his last chapter, or Lancel, who might have gone up in the ranks of the Faith Militant, all the while Cersei is fruitlessly scheming away. All this, I think will be concluded at about 3/4th of TWoW, because time will be needed for the news to travel, and then time for all the battles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that the golden crowns referred to by Maggy has to do with Jaime being the father of her children. That is even how Ned, while reading the tome he got from Pycelle, figured out who Cersi's children's father was. Maggie was essentially telling Cersi she will have 3 children, all fathered by her brother, and she will see them all die.

Edited to add .

Then there will come another to take what power she has left. In the process she will either be killed by Jaime or Tyrion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I believe Doran intends Margery to die in the ambush he says Cersei has set up for them.

But then she won't be a queen. I don't buy that the coronation attempt, it just the existence if the dornish law, qualifies. Her crown was to be golden. You could say that it was just her hair, but then, what will Cersei do after all her children are dead? Because Tommen is most probably gonna die in the first half of the book. That will leave Cersei purposeless, and I don't think that will make for a good story. If Cersei has no purpose, who will we hate? Unless Cersei becomes the Night Queen or something for revenge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Travis said:

I believe that the golden crowns referred to by Maggy has to do with Jaime being the father of her children. That is even how Ned, while reading the tome he got from Pycelle, figured out who Cersi's children's father was. Maggie was essentially telling Cersi she will have 3 children, all fathered by her brother, and she will see them all die.

If that's good she dies, then it will be early on, when Aegon takes KL, because who else will kill her later? This is the major reason I don't think the crown think refers to the hair, because what will Cersei do after all her children are dead?  As I said above, Tommen is most probably gonna die in the first half of the book. That will leave Cersei purposeless, and I don't think that will make for a good story. If Cersei has no purpose, who will we hate? For Cersei to be scheming till at least middle of ADOS, Myrcella has to be alive. And if she is alive till then, she will die only if she is a queen, most likely, unless the Others get her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well the War of the Roses ended with a wedding. Everyone just assumes that it would be between Lannister and Stark, but a (f)Baratheon and a (f)Targaryen would be ironic. Of course this union wouldn't appease the Northern separatists, the Ironborn, Stannis or Daenerys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, lAPPYc said:

But then she won't be a queen. I don't buy that the coronation attempt, it just the existence if the dornish law, qualifies. Her crown was to be golden. You could say that it was just her hair, but then, what will Cersei do after all her children are dead? Because Tommen is most probably gonna die in the first half of the book. That will leave Cersei purposeless, and I don't think that will make for a good story. If Cersei has no purpose, who will we hate? Unless Cersei becomes the Night Queen or something for revenge.

I do not think Cersei's story is meaningless once her children are dead, Cersei never even loved her kids.  Her kids represented the two things that she did love.

1. power

2. her own life 

Cersei's power exists at this point through her kids, but look at her treatment of them, she doesn't actually love them.  Given her fear of the prophecy she also considers them a buffer.  As long as they are alive she cannot die.  Cersei is not capable of loving anything other than herself, and I actually think getting in her head after her kids are gone will be fascinating.  I bet she starts blaming them, and even begins to hate them as she seems to be hating Tommen already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

I can't say I like the possibility of a fortnight queen. Myrcella's death will end Cersei's arc, and I feel that Cersei is the villain that will go last. It is just better for the narrative; we have been hating her since the 1st book, what will we hate in ADoS? I don't think the Others qualify.

Cersei is actually slowed down her children. While they still live she is forced to care about their safety and future, and her actions essentially revolve around those issues.

Once she is finally free from that baggage she can become a real antagonist - a person who only wants to destroy her enemies and see the world burn. If you have already lost everything nothing is holding you back. 

4 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Chances of her Dornish party being captured by Aegon are minimal. Kevan knew about Aegon's invasion, even had a hand painted map to show for it. He also knew that Myrcella's party was coming, but all he was thinking about was making preparations for their arrival. So if he wasn't worried about her capture(And he will know that Connington will love to get Myrcella as a hostage) even after knowing which I think were most of the relevant details, I don't think the capture is logistically possible.

We know that it is pretty much possible considering that Arianne told us that Myrcella's party traveled through the Stormlands. The Kingsroad starts at Storm's End, and we do know the Golden Company is going to take the place.

Myrcella and Nym started before news of the Golden Company reached Sunspear. And while the Golden Company was still limited to Cape Wrath and the Rainwood they would have been pretty safe. But not if they are near Storm's End when Connington and Aegon strike there.

4 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

I don't think he needs any legitimization of his claim that he will marry Myrcella. After Tommen's death, there's nothing left for the Tyrells to keep defending the Red Keep against him, and it is Mace Tyrell that will most likely hold it now, and the westermen are a continent away with no one to unite them. Myrcella would just be a hostage once Tommen dies. But how does she become queen?

By sparing Myrcella's life and marrying her to Aegon, Connington and the Golden Company could continue to drive a wedge between the Westermen and the Reach. It would also help Aegon to win the allegiance of people who still believe Myrcella Baratheon has a claim to the throne.

It would also help with weakening the Tyrells considering that they would have no pretender to challenge Aegon-Myrcella.

4 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

The problem with your plot is that it will be over far too quickly. The news of Dany's death will take time to travel to Westeros, and Aegon won't marry anyone till then.

We don't need the news of Dany's death. The news of her marriage to Hizdahr should be enough already. The news of her alleged death will definitely seal the deal, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

Myrcella has been crowned (unofficially) during the Queenmaker plot. I would be surprised if she reaches King's Landing alive. I believe Sand Snakes/ Darkstar (or both) will kill her in the same way Cersei intended to happen with Trystan.

Luckily we have two Myrcellas at the moment, one to crown and one to kill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/10/2018 at 0:07 PM, lAPPYc said:

I have always held that Aegon will marry Myrcella as a part of some compromise with the Lannisters once he hears that Dany might be dead. But it's not a very popular opinion around the fandom. So how do people think that Myrcella is going to become a queen? I am of course assuming that the 'golden crowns' part in Maggy's prophecy wasn't merely a reference to her blond hair. Also, one other thing I want you to consider is that Cersei is probably going to make every effort to keep Myrcella from becoming queen once Tommen dies. She's already lost two children to the prophecy. She tried to fight the prophecy by framing Margaery, and was paraded naked across the city for her troubles. When Tommen dies, in my opinion, Cersei is going to try to spirit her maimed daughter as far away from the Iron Throne as possible, quite ironically, like Ned had asked her to.

She won't. since Tommen is a child,  he will not be able to consummate their marriage, so the Tyrells will Jump ship After (f)Aegon takes Storm's End and Kevan and Pycelle are revealed to be murdered   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

TQoT doesn't need to kill herself. The Tyrells control KL right now, so Margaery losing her trial is very improbable. But even if she does, the Tyrells will then serve Tommen up to Aegon. The westermen are a continent away and without a leader, may not be able to come quick enough. But even if they do, the Tyrells, the Dornismen, and the GC will make short work of them.

She will if she kills Tommen. It's that or face Cersei's wrath.

That's an assumption. They've turned enough times by now that there's no guarantee Aegon would accept them, and they'd know that.

12 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

She can surrender to Aegon, in order to keep a crown from Myrcella's head.

Surrendering to Aegon to keep Myrcella from being queen also means relinquishing her own power. Cersei is not likely to do that.

12 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

The tales of a beautiful queen with three dragons have reached KL. I don't think Cersei will ignore these tales. She already didn't think that Margaery was beautiful enough to qualify as the younger, more beautiful queen that could take her down. She killed Margaery, as you suppose, and then her son still died. The prophecy is still coming true, and there are tales of another beautiful queen, a Targaryen queen who must surely come to marry her nephew, a Targaryen queen three dragons. C'mon, Cersei's not dumb enough to not try her damndest to keep Myrcella on the throne. She will surrender to Aegon.

Cersei has a funny way of ignoring anything she doesn't like.

Oh, my sweet summer child. Never underestimate how dumb someone is in fiction. Especially someone with delusions of intelligence, hunger for power, and a drinking problem.

I know you think Aegon will marry Myrcella, but that's doubtful for a couple of reasons. 1) He believes her to be the daughter of the man who killed his father and then took the throne. Finding out her true paternity wouldn't help because then she's still the daughter of a man who turned on the king he swore to protect--a crazy king, but still Aegon's grandfather. 2) She is the granddaughter of the man who came to KL saying he was there to save them and instead sacked the city, at the same time sending two of his goons to kill Aegon and his sister Rhaenys. By the time he meets with the Lannisters, if he does, he will no doubt have heard the tale of how Tywin presented the bodies, and the condition his mother and sister (and his stunt double) were in.

6 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

Myrcella has been crowned (unofficially) during the Queenmaker plot. I would be surprised if she reaches King's Landing alive. I believe Sand Snakes/ Darkstar (or both) will kill her in the same way Cersei intended to happen with Trystan.

They never got as far as crowning her.

The Sand Snakes actually like Myrcella. Darkstar may or may not be interested in killing her. 

5 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

Luckily we have two Myrcellas at the moment, one to crown and one to kill

Thank you for remembering the Myrcella stunt double! Sometimes it seems like I'm the only one who noticed GRRM gave us Chekov's cousin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

She will if she kills Tommen. It's that or face Cersei's wrath.

That's an assumption. They've turned enough times by now that there's no guarantee Aegon would accept them, and they'd know that.

Surrendering to Aegon to keep Myrcella from being queen also means relinquishing her own power. Cersei is not likely to do that.

Cersei has a funny way of ignoring anything she doesn't like.

Oh, my sweet summer child. Never underestimate how dumb someone is in fiction. Especially someone with delusions of intelligence, hunger for power, and a drinking problem.

I know you think Aegon will marry Myrcella, but that's doubtful for a couple of reasons. 1) He believes her to be the daughter of the man who killed his father and then took the throne. Finding out her true paternity wouldn't help because then she's still the daughter of a man who turned on the king he swore to protect--a crazy king, but still Aegon's grandfather. 2) She is the granddaughter of the man who came to KL saying he was there to save them and instead sacked the city, at the same time sending two of his goons to kill Aegon and his sister Rhaenys. By the time he meets with the Lannisters, if he does, he will no doubt have heard the tale of how Tywin presented the bodies, and the condition his mother and sister (and his stunt double) were in.

They never got as far as crowning her.

The Sand Snakes actually like Myrcella. Darkstar may or may not be interested in killing her. 

Thank you for remembering the Myrcella stunt double! Sometimes it seems like I'm the only one who noticed GRRM gave us Chekov's cousin.

Only in fiction?  lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

She will if she kills Tommen. It's that or face Cersei's wrath.

Cersei has no way of administrating her wrath. Her claws have been pulled. That's what I meant by the Red Keep being in Tyrell hands.

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

That's an assumption. They've turned enough times by now that there's no guarantee Aegon would accept them, and they'd know that.

Aegon is not stupid. Why won't he accept sixty thousand swords of the Reach if they are falling into his lap?

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Surrendering to Aegon to keep Myrcella from being queen also means relinquishing her own power. Cersei is not likely to do that.

GRRM's characters aren't linear. Jaime was addicted to Cersei, he let her go. Robb was a king, he became an oathbreaker. Theon was an entitled asshole, he changed. The pain of losing two children might change the proud and arrogant Cersei into a frightened creature. And I'll say again, Cersei has no power but the power to beg. The only sword she has the Robert Strong. Everyone else is most likely going to be killed by Mace Tyrell. Unless someone brings the westermen to KL, Cersei has no say. And even the western army will likely find Cersei and Myrcella in the captivity of Mace/Aegon.

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I know you think Aegon will marry Myrcella, but that's doubtful for a couple of reasons. 1) He believes her to be the daughter of the man who killed his father and then took the throne. Finding out her true paternity wouldn't help because then she's still the daughter of a man who turned on the king he swore to protect--a crazy king, but still Aegon's grandfather. 2) She is the granddaughter of the man who came to KL saying he was there to save them and instead sacked the city, at the same time sending two of his goons to kill Aegon and his sister Rhaenys. By the time he meets with the Lannisters, if he does, he will no doubt have heard the tale of how Tywin presented the bodies, and the condition his mother and sister (and his stunt double) were in.

What I think is that Aegon will marry Myrcella only after Daenerys has dubbed him fAegon, and it is highly probable that she will do that. I think that by that time, Aegon will also come to believe that he isn't a true Targaryen. Whether he will marry Myrcella and make peace with the Lannisters to oppose Dany, or to avenge her or something(from a defeat maybe, by Stannis, Jon, Euron, or someone else) is something I don't know. Unlike everyone seems to be assuming, I don't think that Myrcella will just be a blip on the history.

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

However, in fiction the stupidity of the character is in direct proportion to how stupid the author needs them to be.

Well, I think the author here needs the story to stretch at least for two books. Cersei can't hold KL for long against Aegon. Aegon is most certainly going to take it by halfway through TWoW. The fact that the author thinks that the story may need three more books tells me that the story in the south can't finish in the first half. That's why I think Myrcella's reign will be slow in coming.

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Oh, my sweet summer child. Never underestimate how dumb someone is in fiction. Especially someone with delusions of intelligence, hunger for power, and a drinking problem.

I'll also add paranoia. Cersei was smart enough to beat Ned. She had swords to defeat Ned with. But what does she have against the gods? She tried to frame Margaery to prevent the prophecy of the YBQ, but got stripped and paraded naked through the streets of KL instead. And now it seems that the YBQ she thought was Margaery is another queen with three dragons. She saw her efforts fail, lost two children, I think that will take a toll and make a change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...