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How does Myrcella become queen?


lAPPYc

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8 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

Luckily we have two Myrcellas at the moment, one to crown and one to kill

I really don't understand this. Balon Swann would have identified the real Myrcella. Doran can't send the wrong Myrcella to the Red Keep, Cersei will know. Doran wasn't counting on Kevan dying so that he would count on no one listening to Cersei yelling that it's not her daughter that came back less an ear.

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10 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Cersei's power exists at this point through her kids, but look at her treatment of them, she doesn't actually love them.

Abusive parents/bad parents does not necessarily mean people don't love their children. It certainly doesn't mean that they won't protect them.

Quote

“My son Bran...”
To her credit, Cersei did not look away. “He saw us. You love your children, do you not?”
Robert had asked him the very same question, the morning of the melee. He gave her the same answer. “With all my heart.”
“No less do I love mine.”

 

    - AGoT, Ned V

10 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I bet she starts blaming them, and even begins to hate them as she seems to be hating Tommen already.

She may start hating them, but that doesn't mean that she will stop protecting them. They're her children. Nor did I see her hating Tommen by the end of ADwD. The first thing she asked for when she reached the Red Keep, naked and bloody, was her son.

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10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

We know that it is pretty much possible considering that Arianne told us that Myrcella's party traveled through the Stormlands. The Kingsroad starts at Storm's End, and we do know the Golden Company is going to take the place.

Myrcella and Nym started before news of the Golden Company reached Sunspear. And while the Golden Company was still limited to Cape Wrath and the Rainwood they would have been pretty safe. But not if they are near Storm's End when Connington and Aegon strike there.

What I said was, Just like you know all this, Kevan knew all this as well. But since he didn't seem worried, there's probably not anything to worry about.

10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

By sparing Myrcella's life and marrying her to Aegon, Connington and the Golden Company could continue to drive a wedge between the Westermen and the Reach. It would also help Aegon to win the allegiance of people who still believe Myrcella Baratheon has a claim to the throne.

Why would the Reach care if Aegon marries Myrcella? If anything, it will drive a wedge between Aegon and the Reach. Tyrells hold the Red Keep, but they hate the Lannisters. If Aegon is willing to marry someone, it should be Margaery. That will give him the Reach. He can then kill her the same way you say he will kill Myrcella, the repercussions will be the same. But if he declares that he only intends to marry Daenerys, he doesn't have to marry either Margaery and Myrcella. The Tyrells will be his anyway after Tommen dies, and he wanted to kill the Baratheons and the Lannisters anyway. It is also important that he take no bride but Daenerys, because otherwise that will suck him into a marriage with Arianne for Dornish support right at the start. Worse, if Aegon marries Myrcella and then kills her, the Dornish claim to Casterley Rock through her vanishes, so I don't see Arianne agreeing to such a plan.

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10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

They never got as far as crowning her.

The Sand Snakes actually like Myrcella. Darkstar may or may not be interested in killing her. 

This is why I say unofficial.

Arianne likes Myrcella. Sand Snakes have not shown any emotion (positive or negative) about Myrcella but I find these words troublesome:

NymeriaObara would make Oldtown our father's funeral pyre, but I am not so greedy. Four lives will suffice for me. Lord Tywin's golden twins, as payment for Elia's children. The old lion, for Elia herself. And last of all the little king, for my father.

Doran: The boy has never wronged us.
Nymeria: Only royal blood can wash out my father's murder.

Tommen has not done anything wrong to them (like his sister) but still they want to kill him. Myrcella is royal blood too.

.

Nymeria: It ends in blood, as it began. It ends when Casterly Rock is cracked open, so the sun can shine on the maggots and the worms within. It ends with the utter ruin of Tywin Lannister and all his works.

 

Obara: "Give me back my spear, Uncle. Cersei sent us a head. We should send her back a bag of them", (DWD - after learning about the plan to assasinate Trystane. A bag of heads may mean Myrcella's head too)

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4 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

This is why I say unofficial.

Arianne likes Myrcella. Sand Snakes have not shown any emotion (positive or negative) about Myrcella but I find these words troublesome:

NymeriaObara would make Oldtown our father's funeral pyre, but I am not so greedy. Four lives will suffice for me. Lord Tywin's golden twins, as payment for Elia's children. The old lion, for Elia herself. And last of all the little king, for my father.

Doran: The boy has never wronged us.
Nymeria: Only royal blood can wash out my father's murder.

Tommen has not done anything wrong to them (like his sister) but still they want to kill him. Myrcella is royal blood too.

.

Nymeria: It ends in blood, as it began. It ends when Casterly Rock is cracked open, so the sun can shine on the maggots and the worms within. It ends with the utter ruin of Tywin Lannister and all his works.

 

Obara: "Give me back my spear, Uncle. Cersei sent us a head. We should send her back a bag of them", (DWD - after learning about the plan to assasinate Trystane. A bag of heads may mean Myrcella's head too)

What you're missing there is any mention of killing Myrcella. They're fine killing Tommen, who they don't know, but there is no mention of killing the one Lannister they've actually met. It's a lot easier to rationalize killing a stranger who is in your way than it is to rationalize killing a sweet little girl you know and who your cousin (Trystane) adores.

Arianne may have been too pre-occupied to see the consequences of what was going on, but the Sand Snakes would not be so blind as to miss that if Myrcella dies in their territory there will be problems. It would be an insult to Doran's honor to harm the girl. And Trystane might never forgive them.

Those words are also before Doran lays out his own plan and the Sand Snakes agree to go along with it. Doran knows better than to do anything to Myrcella, so his nieces won't either at this point. Down the road, if Uncle Doran's plan doesn't work, then all bets would be off.

Being unofficially crowned would be if they actually had crowned her. They have no authority to do it, so it would be unofficial, as opposed to Tommen's which WAS official. No unofficial crowning can be done without a crowning.

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12 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

I really don't understand this. Balon Swann would have identified the real Myrcella. Doran can't send the wrong Myrcella to the Red Keep, Cersei will know. Doran wasn't counting on Kevan dying so that he would count on no one listening to Cersei yelling that it's not her daughter that came back less an ear.

You've missed the stunt double's importance. It's entirely possible that cousin Rosamund was the one who lost an ear, and Doran is letting Arianne and everyone else think it was the real Myrcella. All he had to do was convince Myrcella to pretend to be injured and wear a large bandage on her head until she's safely out of Dorne. Arys Oakheart was likely the snitch, and who better than the Princess' sworn shield to pull off a switch between the two girls before the crowning party left the palace? 

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13 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Cersei has no way of administrating her wrath. Her claws have been pulled. That's what I meant by the Red Keep being in Tyrell hands.

No her claws have not been pulled, only trimmed. With Kevan and Pycelle gone, there is no one to rein Cersei in. If Margaery loses her trial she will die. Cersei will win her own trial, and be in charge.

 

13 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Aegon is not stupid. Why won't he accept sixty thousand swords of the Reach if they are falling into his lap?

Aegon is not stupid? He let Tyrion play him like a fiddle. It's far too early to tell if Aegon has any actual intelligence of his own.

Sure, he'd be happy to accept the swords, but he wouldn't trust the Tyrells. Margaery was their lynchpin, the key to all the scheming. Without her, the plans fall apart. This doesn't mean they can't make new plans, but Mace will be pretty much done, and Olenna might not recover from losing Margaery either, so that means Willas will be in charge and we don't know which way he'll go. The Tyrells may retreat back to Highgarden and lick their wounds for a while before pledging support to anyone else. And they may end up choosing Daenerys over Aegon.

 

13 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

GRRM's characters aren't linear. Jaime was addicted to Cersei, he let her go. Robb was a king, he became an oathbreaker. Theon was an entitled asshole, he changed. The pain of losing two children might change the proud and arrogant Cersei into a frightened creature. And I'll say again, Cersei has no power but the power to beg. The only sword she has the Robert Strong. Everyone else is most likely going to be killed by Mace Tyrell. Unless someone brings the westermen to KL, Cersei has no say. And even the western army will likely find Cersei and Myrcella in the captivity of Mace/Aegon.

I never said the characters were lineal.

Jaime was never as bad as he let people think he was. Robb being an oathbreaker doesn't weigh against him being king--kings break their word a lot. Theon was more than an entitled asshole. All three of them are characters with hidden depths. We see the substance underneath Jaime's veneer of awfulness when he's at his lowest point. We don't get Robb's POV but we do see him through Catelyn's eyes, and he's trying to make the best of some pretty bad situations. We see Theon's other side throughout his chapters, the little boy who was taken away and raised as a hostage, craving approval he never let anyone know he wanted, and trying to prove himself to a father who would never accept him. 

Cersei does not have hidden depths--she has hidden shallows. This is abundantly clear from her POV chapters. She is deluded and ineffective, and unwilling or unable to see why she fails.

Cersei has power as long as one of her children is on the throne. For the Tyrells to jump ship they have to at least send an envoy to Aegon, and it's not likely they can do that without Cersei finding out. Not to mention that Varys has neatly framed House Tyrell for a double-murder. They're not likely to stay in KL.

 

13 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

What I think is that Aegon will marry Myrcella only after Daenerys has dubbed him fAegon, and it is highly probable that she will do that. I think that by that time, Aegon will also come to believe that he isn't a true Targaryen. Whether he will marry Myrcella and make peace with the Lannisters to oppose Dany, or to avenge her or something(from a defeat maybe, by Stannis, Jon, Euron, or someone else) is something I don't know. Unlike everyone seems to be assuming, I don't think that Myrcella will just be a blip on the history.

Dany dubbing him fAegon won't do much good unless she does it in Westeros. I mean, she can issue proclamations from all over Essos if she wants but they won't hold any weight in the seven kingdoms. We don't even know that she'll be there before the end of TWoW. She still has to deal with the Dothraki and the Slaver's Bay fiasco before she even thinks about sailing home. A lot of this is going to play out without her involvement.

I don't think Myrcella is just a blip on the story, but I don't think she's Elizabeth of York either. The longer we go, the more I love the idea that Cersei's own daughter is the YMBQ, and all of her anti-Margaery scheming will have been in vain.

 

13 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Well, I think the author here needs the story to stretch at least for two books. Cersei can't hold KL for long against Aegon. Aegon is most certainly going to take it by halfway through TWoW. The fact that the author thinks that the story may need three more books tells me that the story in the south can't finish in the first half. That's why I think Myrcella's reign will be slow in coming.

That won't be hard to do. He's got more than 20 POV characters, and several non-PsOV who are missing in action, as it were. Three major characters need to get back to Westeros, two major battles just at the top of TWoW with more battles to come, at least one hero prophecy, Cersei's fortune/self-fulfilling prophecy, the truth about Rhaegar and Lyanna, more dragonriders, arguably another betrayal for Dany, quite possibly the worst winter in history coming and hardly any food for the people thanks to the Wot5K, the second Dance of the Dragons, and everything with the Others yet. And that doesn't even begin to get into the more personal stuff. The deaths alone will take chapters' worth of pages.

Where has GRRM said anything about adding an eighth book? Everything I've read from him and his publishers says two more. His wife said the series would be seven even when he still thought it was going to be three.

If you think the story needs to be stretched to fill two more books, how can you believe there would be a third?

 

13 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

I'll also add paranoia. Cersei was smart enough to beat Ned. She had swords to defeat Ned with. But what does she have against the gods? She tried to frame Margaery to prevent the prophecy of the YBQ, but got stripped and paraded naked through the streets of KL instead. And now it seems that the YBQ she thought was Margaery is another queen with three dragons. She saw her efforts fail, lost two children, I think that will take a toll and make a change.

Yes paranoia. Excellent point!

Beating Ned didn't take smarts, it took being willing to be dishonorable. Hodor could outflank Ned that way.

Ah, now that's a very good question. What does she have against the gods? What she has is a belief that they aren't real. What you don't believe is real, you don't believe can hurt you.

She doesn't know how beautiful Dany is, nor does she currently believe the rumors about the dragons.

I agree all of this will take a toll, but I think the change will be to make her even more unstable. Right now she's humiliated and subdued, but when she starts rising again (and she will) she'll think she's seen the worst and is wiser. She'll think she's really Tywin with teats now. That's why she's going to crash in spectacular fashion, and it will be her own doing--the result of a lifetime of selfish decisions with a pinch of demented superiority complex thrown in for spice. We don't read Cersei's chapters to look for the goodness she's hiding, we read them for the crazy. And just as GRRM's characters are not linear, they are also not on identical arcs--not everyone gets redemption. When Cersei goes down, she's going down in flames.

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8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

All he had to do was convince Myrcella to pretend to be injured and wear a large bandage on her head until she's safely out of Dorne. Arys Oakheart was likely the snitch, and who better than the Princess' sworn shield to pull off a switch between the two girls before the crowning party left the palace? 

Why would Doran want Myrcella to cover her head in fake bandage? Who is he trying to fool? If Arys Oakheart was the snitch, why did he run into Hotah's axe? Mere guilt of sinning with Arianne? I don't think so, not when he was already working against her with Doran. Doran took Arianne in confidence after her botched coup, why will he still lie to her about Myrcella's ear?

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

With Kevan and Pycelle gone, there is no one to rein Cersei in.

Umm... Mace Tyrell?

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Cersei will win her own trial, and be in charge.

With what swords? I have been asking this from the start. Remember the problem Ned had before his arrest? He had no swords to defend his cause. The same is with Cersei here. It's Mace Tyrell with armies here, two armies: one from Storm's End, one from Maidenpool.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Margaery was their lynchpin, the key to all the scheming. Without her, the plans fall apart. This doesn't mean they can't make new plans, but Mace will be pretty much done, and Olenna might not recover from losing Margaery either, so that means Willas will be in charge and we don't know which way he'll go. The Tyrells may retreat back to Highgarden and lick their wounds for a while before pledging support to anyone else. And they may end up choosing Daenerys over Aegon.

You are thinking of a very united Reach. The Tyrell power reached this high only after the time of Olenna's husband and that of her father in law's, because of all the marriages they performed. Before them, a lot of the time, powerful houses like Hightower, Redwyne, Oakhart and Rowan did what they wanted. This time there is an addition of Randyll Tarly here as well, and Rowan has the command of the siege around Storm's End. Both these houses aren't married into House Tyrell and both are suspected as the 'friends in the Reach' of the Golden Company. Ranyll Tarly holds KL as much as Mace Tyrell does, and he is perfectly positioned to convince Mace that if he needs to cut his losses after Tommen dies, he had better sell the Red Keep and Cersei and Myrcella to Aegon.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Aegon is not stupid? He let Tyrion play him like a fiddle. It's far too early to tell if Aegon has any actual intelligence of his own.

So you will just assume that he doesn't? What was so harmful in the plan that Tyrion convinced Aegon of that an intelligent person would have declined it? Are you sure you aren't overstating it when you say Tyrion played him like a fiddle? Aegon was taught in politics since his birth, and taking of the Red Keep from Mace Tyrell doesn't require any trust, just a negotiation.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Cersei does not have hidden depths--she has hidden shallows.

She doesn't have to have hidden depths to have paranoia, because she has already shown her paranoia.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Cersei has power as long as one of her children is on the throne.

Renly asked Ned to kill the Lannister soldiers and take custody of Joffrey. That still would have been Cersei's son on the Iron Throne, but do you think she would still have the power? Do you think Renly thought she would have power? This same thing is going to happen once Kevan and Pycell are found dead. I don't think you appreciate how hostages work.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

They're not likely to stay in KL.

Sorry, that's naive. The least they will do, and most probably, will be to sell KL to Aegon.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Dany dubbing him fAegon won't do much good unless she does it in Westeros. I mean, she can issue proclamations from all over Essos if she wants but they won't hold any weight in the seven kingdoms.

It might hold weight with Aegon, according to what his state of mind is. People think that he will be opposing Dany, but I'm more of the opinion that by that time Aegon himself is questioning if he is a Targaryen, and he is failing in his campaign against the North(Stannis or Jon or Sansa) or Euron which will only bolster his questioning. When his one last hope Dany proclaims him a fake, that will be the last nail, and he will be convinced and put his sword down, or go back to the Red Keep to hold it for Dany. But then I think that Dany will herself crash and burn(not necessarily die) very early on her campaign in Westeros, and that will prompt Aegon to take up his sword again to avenge her, and he will make common cause with the Lannisters(I am thinking of Tyrion, who might even have a dragon at this point, but there could be some other commander as well, whatever remains of the House Lannister) and marry Myrcella. The two of them will be the couple that will try to put the kingdom right as the Long Night descends, until the real heir to the throne arrives, whoever that is, and takes the throne from them, by force or otherwise(Myrcella dying tells me that it might be by force, or by a sacrifice by Myrcella). Myrcella can then still be the YBQ - her thinking she can be a good queen and her mother trying to pull her down from the throne.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Where has GRRM said anything about adding an eighth book? Everything I've read from him and his publishers says two more. His wife said the series would be seven even when he still thought it was going to be three.

If you think the story needs to be stretched to fill two more books, how can you believe there would be a third?

GRRM has joked that there are actually eight kingdoms in the seven kingdoms and maybe there should be eight books as well, though there is very little possibility of this happening, many are questioning whether the series can be over in just two books. Martin himself holds that the last two books will be large books.

I don't think the story needs to be stretched to fill two more books, I think there is enough story for two books, but only if the Lannister arc and the KL arc doesn't end. You will have Myrcella die conveniently for Aegon, and then for some reason he marries Arianne, that won't take too much time at all, and will leave the Lannisters dormant until Tyrion arrives. That's too simple, too dismissive.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

What you don't believe is real, you don't believe can hurt you.

What are you talking about? She think the prophecy is real. And her efforts to fight it have already been thwarted, as I have been saying from the start.

In her walk through the streets of KL, Cersei sees Ned, she sees Sansa and Lady, she sees her disappointed father. She thinks of the dead Joff and all the dead sons of Ned. She's basically counting her failures and sins. It won't be hard to connect her misfortunes with her sins. With the prophecy still coming to fruition with Tommen's death and Dany's tales, she will just be more afraid. In her dream in AFFC, where she sees herself seated on the IT, she finds herself naked and bloody, and the crowd starts laughing at her. I think that all this has come to pass, and that was the end of her 'being in charge'. She'll be a hostage trying to get out from now on.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

She doesn't know how beautiful Dany is, nor does she currently believe the rumors about the dragons.

There are fresh rumors, as said in the Kevan chapter. You are assuming that what currently is(Actually, it was all before a major event, her imprisonment) will stay just as is in the future as well. That's what I mean by you assuming characters to be linear.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

We don't read Cersei's chapters to look for the goodness she's hiding, we read them for the crazy.

Where did I talk about the goodness in her? I'm saying that she will become paranoid and try to run away from the justice that's clearly coming from her. As I said, she's already counting her sins.

8 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

not everyone gets redemption.

Didn't claim she'll get redemption either.

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2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Why would Doran want Myrcella to cover her head in fake bandage? Who is he trying to fool? If Arys Oakheart was the snitch, why did he run into Hotah's axe? Mere guilt of sinning with Arianne? I don't think so, not when he was already working against her with Doran. Doran took Arianne in confidence after her botched coup, why will he still lie to her about Myrcella's ear?

You cover the area where the wound should be to hide the fact that she doesn't have one, obviously.

Why would Doran wait 15-20 years to put his plans into motion? Doran does what he does for his own reasons. And he'd be trying to fool a number of people, the Sand Snakes possibly included.

Not just sinning with her, but also ratting on her. Arys would probably think of it in terms of betraying the woman he loves to maintain his honor in protecting Myrcella. 

Yes, Doran took Arianne into his confidence, but does he trust her fully? We don't know that yet.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Umm... Mace Tyrell?

Unless he's been pulling one of the longest cons in the series, Mace Tyrell is a buffoon who is easily out-smarted. 

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

With what swords? I have been asking this from the start. Remember the problem Ned had before his arrest? He had no swords to defend his cause. The same is with Cersei here. It's Mace Tyrell with armies here, two armies: one from Storm's End, one from Maidenpool.

Ned had swords. He had the Gold Cloaks. Littlefinger betrayed him. Cersei has soldiers, just not a whole army. If she wins her trial, and with Kevan dead, she will reclaim the post of regent, a post she'll keep even if Tommen dies, pending Myrcella's crowning, because somebody has to be in charge.

Eventually yes, she could be caught between armies. But not right away. And she'll play for time as long as it is possible to do so. Maybe even manipulate Mace into using the Tyrell army to crush the Faith Militant. And that would potentially set the people up against the Tyrells and their army, which would be a golden opportunity for Cersei to stab them in the back and publicly condemn the actions she privately persuaded them to take. At that point they could certainly be forgiven for abandoning Cersei and King's Landing to the foodless winter to come. 

Don't forget Cersei always has her wildfire. Not that I want to see her use it. I'd rather it be used to get rid of a sizable quantity of wights in the next Battle for the Dawn.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

You are thinking of a very united Reach. The Tyrell power reached this high only after the time of Olenna's husband and that of her father in law's, because of all the marriages they performed. Before them, a lot of the time, powerful houses like Hightower, Redwyne, Oakhart and Rowan did what they wanted. This time there is an addition of Randyll Tarly here as well, and Rowan has the command of the siege around Storm's End. Both these houses aren't married into House Tyrell and both are suspected as the 'friends in the Reach' of the Golden Company. Ranyll Tarly holds KL as much as Mace Tyrell does, and he is perfectly positioned to convince Mace that if he needs to cut his losses after Tommen dies, he had better sell the Red Keep and Cersei and Myrcella to Aegon

I'm actually not thinking of a very united Reach. Good rule of thumb when dealing with me: don't assume I mean something other than what I wrote.

Randyll Tarly currently holds Margaery. And if he hands her over to the Faith for her execution, Mace won't be happy. Not saying Mace would do anything about it, but I doubt he'd be inclined to listen to him either.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

So you will just assume that he doesn't? What was so harmful in the plan that Tyrion convinced Aegon of that an intelligent person would have declined it? Are you sure you aren't overstating it when you say Tyrion played him like a fiddle? Aegon was taught in politics since his birth, and taking of the Red Keep from Mace Tyrell doesn't require any trust, just a negotiation.

No, but neither will I assume intelligence he hasn't shown.

What was harmful was that he showed up without dragons, and dragons are supposedly proof of bloodline, not to mention far superior in a conquest to mere foot soldiers. He could have landed in Westeros with Dany and all of her supporters in addition to the GC, thereby increasing the likelihood of success. 

No, I'm not overstating it. Tyrion knew exactly how to manipulate the boy, and did so, and Aegon fell for it.

I think you're overstating when you say Aegon was taught politics since birth. What people are taught and what they actually learn do not always line up.

Taking anything from Mace does require trust, because Mace could be trying to set a trap.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

She doesn't have to have hidden depths to have paranoia, because she has already shown her paranoia.

You compared her to three characters with hidden depths. I was merely pointing out that she does not fit the same pattern.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Renly asked Ned to kill the Lannister soldiers and take custody of Joffrey. That still would have been Cersei's son on the Iron Throne, but do you think she would still have the power? Do you think Renly thought she would have power? This same thing is going to happen once Kevan and Pycell are found dead. I don't think you appreciate how hostages work.

Renly's plan has no bearing on what's going on in the series. Renly's plan never happened. 

Varys set it up to look like House Tyrell killed Kevan and Pycelle. That makes Margaery look guilty, in addition to making at least one of her relatives look guilty. With the Tyrells under suspicion who else is there to take the regency? Cersei, as soon as her trial is won. 

I know how hostages work, thanks.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Sorry, that's naive. The least they will do, and most probably, will be to sell KL to Aegon.

You say potato...

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

It might hold weight with Aegon, according to what his state of mind is. People think that he will be opposing Dany, but I'm more of the opinion that by that time Aegon himself is questioning if he is a Targaryen, and he is failing in his campaign against the North(Stannis or Jon or Sansa) or Euron which will only bolster his questioning. When his one last hope Dany proclaims him a fake, that will be the last nail, and he will be convinced and put his sword down, or go back to the Red Keep to hold it for Dany. But then I think that Dany will herself crash and burn(not necessarily die) very early on her campaign in Westeros, and that will prompt Aegon to take up his sword again to avenge her, and he will make common cause with the Lannisters(I am thinking of Tyrion, who might even have a dragon at this point, but there could be some other commander as well, whatever remains of the House Lannister) and marry Myrcella. The two of them will be the couple that will try to put the kingdom right as the Long Night descends, until the real heir to the throne arrives, whoever that is, and takes the throne from them, by force or otherwise(Myrcella dying tells me that it might be by force, or by a sacrifice by Myrcella). Myrcella can then still be the YBQ - her thinking she can be a good queen and her mother trying to pull her down from the throne.

I don't think Aegon has to be against Dany. But I'm wondering what leads you to think that Aegon is doubting his Targaryen heritage?

Have you considered the possibility that Aegon actually is Aegon? About half the fans dismiss the idea but it actually holds a lot of potential for drama in the story.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

GRRM has joked that there are actually eight kingdoms in the seven kingdoms and maybe there should be eight books as well, though there is very little possibility of this happening, many are questioning whether the series can be over in just two books. Martin himself holds that the last two books will be large books.

If there's very little possibility of it happening, why bring it up in the first place? Especially since it was a joke. 

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

I don't think the story needs to be stretched to fill two more books, I think there is enough story for two books, but only if the Lannister arc and the KL arc doesn't end. You will have Myrcella die conveniently for Aegon, and then for some reason he marries Arianne, that won't take too much time at all, and will leave the Lannisters dormant until Tyrion arrives. That's too simple, too dismissive.

You used the word stretch. 

I'd be happy to share my thoughts on how Myrcella dies, but I'm wondering if that's necessary since you've already decided what I think. Wrongly, I might add.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

What are you talking about? She think the prophecy is real. And her efforts to fight it have already been thwarted, as I have been saying from the start.

You seem to be having trouble following your own words. She doesn't believe the GODS are real, thus she doesn't believe they can do anything to her. 

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

In her walk through the streets of KL, Cersei sees Ned, she sees Sansa and Lady, she sees her disappointed father. She thinks of the dead Joff and all the dead sons of Ned. She's basically counting her failures and sins. It won't be hard to connect her misfortunes with her sins. With the prophecy still coming to fruition with Tommen's death and Dany's tales, she will just be more afraid. In her dream in AFFC, where she sees herself seated on the IT, she finds herself naked and bloody, and the crowd starts laughing at her. I think that all this has come to pass, and that was the end of her 'being in charge'. She'll be a hostage trying to get out from now on.

I disagree. I think you're giving Cersei credit for more introspection and ability to reason than she actually has.

With more evidence of the fortune being true, she'll fight harder against it in a desperate attempt to keep the last parts from happening.

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

There are fresh rumors, as said in the Kevan chapter. You are assuming that what currently is (Actually, it was all before a major event, her imprisonment) will stay just as is in the future as well. That's what I mean by you assuming characters to be linear

Yes there are fresh rumors. And there will be more rumors--rumors of Dany's death (greatly exaggerated), for instance.

I'm not assuming characters to be linear. I'm assuming Cersei will continue to be herself. You think she'll stay down, I think she'll bounce back. 

 

2 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Where did I talk about the goodness in her? I'm saying that she will become paranoid and try to run away from the justice that's clearly coming from her. As I said, she's already counting her sins.

Didn't claim she'll get redemption either.

You compared her to three characters who do have goodness in them, two of whom get major redemption arcs. When you include them as examples in your arguments for what Cersei will do in the future, it's not a huge leap for someone to get the idea that you think Cersei's story is on a similar trajectory.

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Okay, @Lady Blizzardborn, it seems I mixed up what someone else was saying about Myrcella-Aegon marriage with what you were saying. I apologize for that.

But about what will happen in the aftermath of Kevan's death, you say

Quote

Renly's plan has no bearing on what's going on in the series. Renly's plan never happened. 

And I have nothing more to say.

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