manchester_babe

Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

94 posts in this topic

I think it makes perfect sense. Much more sense than Brandon f*cking his own sister, or even Ned doing it with a boat wench from the Sisters. I also discount Willa.

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27 minutes ago, zandru said:

I think it makes perfect sense. Much more sense than Brandon f*cking his own sister, or even Ned doing it with a boat wench from the Sisters. I also discount Willa.

But it doesn't make perfect sense.

What sense does it make for the heir of the throne,  who is already on his fathers/kings shit list,  to steal some northern girl and piss off an entire region who already dispises southerners and encite a rebellion?

It makes LESS sense than your comment about B+L=J because we have already seen incestuous relationships in the literature.  As far as I am concerned Brandon+Lyanna=Jon is just as good of a theory as R+L=J.  Maybe even more so.

What if Lyanna was crying at the tourney of Harrenhall because she just found out her one true love, her brother Brandon, was now betrothed to Cat?  

I would say it makes more sense that LITTLEFINGER had more to do with Lyanna's disapperance than did Rhaegar.  What better way to piss off the dude that pounded your ass in the dirt for the woman you loved than to steal the woman that Brandon loved.

Think about it...

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I'm not sure that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna to produce the PwiP since we now have Dany fulfilling that role, at least as far as Aemon is concerned.  So all the rationale built up around Rhaegar and Lyanna falling in love to counter the kidnapping story doesn't make sense to me.  I think there was some violence perpetrated on Lyanna; but a kidnapping would be more in line with Aerys' actions considering what happened to her father and brother.   It might even be that Rhaegar ended up with Lyanna in some way but I doubt he kept her at the ToJ since we have at least some association between Jon and Starfall.   

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To say that I hate the theory would be an overstatement. What I don't like is how so many people trod it around like been confirmed already. I get that there is a lot of evidence for it, but as of right now it is still only a theory and hasn't been confirmed to be true.

That being said, the reason why I don't think it's true, is because if it is then it's too obvious; Lyanna gets kidnapped or elopes with prince Rhaegar, disappears for a year, dies for a strange reason and her older brother comes around with a little baby that he claims to be his, but he refuses to tell anyone who the mother is. Even without the "promise me, Ned", that is ridiculously suspicious and it really screams R+L=J. GRRM has throughout the series written prophecy where he indirectly tells the reader what's going to happen, so why on earth would he make Jon's true parentage so obvious? You don't need Dany's vision of blue roses on the ice wall or even "promise me, Ned" to see the possibility of R+L=J.

I, again, dont hate the theory and I won't be angry or frustrated if it turns out to be true, but I would like people to stop acting like it's been confirmed just because it is so in the show.

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3 hours ago, manchester_babe said:

Why do book readers h8 R+L+J?

'Cause they hipsters, and R+L=J  is mainstream. 

1 hour ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

What sense does it make for the heir of the throne,  who is already on his fathers/kings shit list,  to steal some northern girl and piss off an entire region who already dispises southerners and encite a rebellion?

Only "Rhaegar + Lyanna" is a fact established in the books beyond any reasonable doubt. The unknown part is the exact nature of "R+L", and not if that's a thing or not.

Let's discuss something less certain, shall we? Like: did the Battle of the Trident actually happen, or was it just a fib made up by a drunk Bob Baratheon?

1 hour ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

It makes LESS sense than your comment about B+L=J because we have already seen incestuous relationships in the literature.  As far as I am concerned Brandon+Lyanna=Jon is just as good of a theory as R+L=J.  Maybe even more so.

What if Lyanna was crying at the tourney of Harrenhall because she just found out her one true love, her brother Brandon, was now betrothed to Cat?

You mean, they had been betrothed for five years ("I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon"), but nobody told Lyanna?

And that's the problem with the competing theories, the vomit-inducing B+L=J first among them: they rely of blatantly making up stuff not present in the books, and ignoring stuff actually present in the books. As you demonstrated a few times in a relatively short post.

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1 hour ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

To say that I hate the theory would be an overstatement. What I don't like is how so many people trod it around like been confirmed already. I get that there is a lot of evidence for it, but as of right now it is still only a theory and hasn't been confirmed to be true.

I, again, dont hate the theory and I won't be angry or frustrated if it turns out to be true, but I would like people to stop acting like it's been confirmed just because it is so in the show.

Where is all this book evidence?  Don't you mean the story that is made up out of a few fragmentary statements?   People trot it out as confirmed because someone else told them it was confirmed, or the most popular,  or they watched the show, or they maintain a conceit that they can't possibly be wrong.  Some people are just fanatics who take themselves too seriously.

Edited by LynnS

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'cause we, after years of delving into the most bizarre details of Planetos, won't take such a simple and clean explanation whatsoever. Never. Ever. In the world.

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5 hours ago, manchester_babe said:

Why do book readers h8 R+L+J?

Why do you ask? It's pretty apparent, or should be, that there are plenty of book readers that are perfectly fine with it. They are more than likely in the majority, in fact.

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2 hours ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

As far as I am concerned Brandon+Lyanna=Jon is just as good of a theory as R+L=J.  Maybe even more so.

Like Ferocious Veldt Roarer sez. R+L=J is established. It's just too bad "J" appears to be dead.

1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

the vomit-inducing B+L=J

Amen, brother! Let it be noted, the Lannister twins are not typical.

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I had not a clue after my first rapid read through that R+L might equal J.  R and L barely distinguished themselves as characters worth noting, or at least anymore noteworthy then say, Visenya, or Aegon the Unworthy (I might have just made those names up.)

After two rereads, and with the help of the internet, I came to appreciate much more of what is going on in the books.  Seems perfectly obvious now, embarrassingly so.

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7 hours ago, manchester_babe said:

Why do book readers h8 R+L+J?

well

5 hours ago, zandru said:

I think it makes perfect sense. Much more sense than Brandon f*cking his own sister, or even Ned doing it with a boat wench from the Sisters. I also discount Willa.

there is this 

4 hours ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

But it doesn't make perfect sense.
<Snip>

and here we go 

4 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

To say that I hate the theory would be an overstatement. What I don't like is how so many people trod it around like been confirmed already. I get that there is a lot of evidence for it, but as of right now it is still only a theory and hasn't been confirmed to be true.

It has been confirmed. Well over a year ago.  We are just not allowed to talk about it here in the book forum 

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

Where is all this book evidence?  Don't you mean the story that is made up out of a few fragmentary statements?   People trot it out as confirmed because someone else told them it was confirmed, or the most popular,  or they watched the show, or they maintain a conceit that they can't possibly be wrong.  Some people are just fanatics who take themselves too seriously.

Or they have been paying attention to social media for over a year 

2 hours ago, Jon Fossoway said:

'cause we, after years of delving into the most bizarre details of Planetos, won't take such a simple and clean explanation whatsoever. Never. Ever. In the world.

BINGO!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!!111!!!!!!!

Edited by Dorian Martell's son

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5 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I would like people to stop acting like it's been confirmed just because it is so in the show.

Frankly, I considered it well confirmed way before that-we-don't-speak-of because "Prince Rhaegar loved his lady Lyanna" is as straighforward as it gets, and what GRRM said about the topic is right below in my sig. As for Lyanna not loving him back, well... with the roses she was holding onto even on her deathbed, I say, fat chance.

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Well, asked and answered I suppose... Still, a few ppl brought up that R+L=J is too obvious or too mainstream or whathaveyou, and I beg to differ. The vast majority of readers do not frequent internet discussion forums... I'll say that out of all my friends who have read the books and are casual readers, not a single one picked it up. And quite a few still didn't believe it even after we talked about it at length. 

And here I disagree w/ the idea that the abomination has confirmed anything. I don't take anything David and Dan do as confirmation of anything. In fact, the abomination going that way was the first thing in 18yrs+ that give me pause! :D

 

Edited by kissdbyfire
I hate you, auto incorrect!

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9 hours ago, manchester_babe said:

Why do book readers h8 R+L+J?

It is a flimsy theory.  I also hate it because it's an overused plot.  Like Aragorn and Luke Skywalker.  Very boring actually.  I also don't like Jon.

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7 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Let's discuss something less certain, shall we? Like: did the Battle of the Trident actually happen, or was it just a fib made up by a drunk Bob Baratheon?

You mean, they had been betrothed for five years ("I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon"), but nobody told Lyanna?

And that's the problem with the competing theories, the vomit-inducing B+L=J first among them: they rely of blatantly making up stuff not present in the books, and ignoring stuff actually present in the books. As you demonstrated a few times in a relatively short post.

How did this go from R+L=J to if the Battle of Trident happened?  Of course it happened.  There are survivors (Barriston, for example)

In my scenario it doesn't matter if Lyanna had prior knowledge to the betrothal or not.  The sad song still would've put her in an awkward situation.

LOL...vomit inducing.  Did you puke while reading every Jamie and Cersei chapter?  Give me a break.   It's a book.  And we have all been making stuff up with theories because the books aren't finished yet.  R+L=J isn't in the books either so I choose to ignore it.

 

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