U.S. Politics: Gunnin' From The Long Arm of the Law

[aceluby]

3 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Libertarians are pro open border, they just have virtually no influence on the issue.

This is one issue I find many Libertarians simply can't hold to.  In theory, this is true, but in practice I have yet to find any self-identified Libertarians who are actually for open borders

[Larry of the Lawn]

13 minutes ago, aceluby said:

This is one issue I find many Libertarians simply can't hold to.  In theory, this is true, but in practice I have yet to find any self-identified Libertarians who are actually for open borders

Ha was about to say the same thing.  Unfortunately, my life circumstances are such that many of my friends and aquaintances and coworkers self-identity as libertarian.  Of maybe two dozen I can think of only three that support open borders.  It's usually one of the first questions I ask in libertarian bingo.

[Shryke]

Ok, let's all remember that this is about Dreamers, not illegal immigrants. There's a big distinction there in that Dreamers are specifically people who had no choice about immigrating to the US. They were kids. That's where the broad support comes from. That's why the talk about "well, it's the law" is bullshit. You are punishing kids for actions they had no control over. It's like throwing the children of a burglar in jail because they ate food paid for with money obtained via theft. This is not about illegal immigration in general, it's about specific people.

In general I think Kimmel's little bit he tried to do serves as an example of the fact that people who are currently anti-Dreamer are not gonna change their minds. But those people are just way less numerous then the alternative from any polling I've seen. Constantly sob stories about people who've done nothing wrong getting deported are gonna effect people. The idea of it already effect how people answer polls on the issue.

[S John]

The main reason that R’s do not want to accept the DACA kids, and want to limit immigration in general, is because of demographic voting trends.  I think they view these kids as 800,000 Dem votes and they probably aren’t wrong about that considering that it isn’t the Dem’s trying to kick them out.  And cynically, I do believe this IS a part of the reason that the Dem politicians want the DACA kids to stay.  If they get their way, these kids are likely Dem voters for life.  It also happens to be the right thing to do, but this is another barrier to getting the right on board.  It’s gone too far for the R’s to be able to take any credit if it does eventually pass.  They are rightfully seen as the hold up on this issue and, at this point, might as well double down rather than make the strategic mistake of making citizens out of opposition voters.  And I have to agree with those who say this won’t move the electoral needle much.  

[Shryke]

16 minutes ago, S John said:

The main reason that R’s do not want to accept the DACA kids, and want to limit immigration in general, is because of demographic voting trends.  I think they view these kids as 800,000 Dem votes and they probably aren’t wrong about that considering that it isn’t the Dem’s trying to kick them out.  And cynically, I do believe this IS a part of the reason that the Dem politicians want the DACA kids to stay.  If they get their way, these kids are likely Dem voters for life.  It also happens to be the right thing to do, but this is another barrier to getting the right on board.  It’s gone too far for the R’s to be able to take any credit if it does eventually pass.  They are rightfully seen as the hold up on this issue and, at this point, might as well double down rather than make the strategic mistake of making citizens out of opposition voters.  And I have to agree with those who say this won’t move the electoral needle much.  

It's not voting trends, it's just demographics in general. You can see it in their media all the time. They are white supremacists and they fully embrace the concept of "white genocide" and having to fight it. To prevent the US from becoming not-white-enough anymore.

Obama isn't really american.

You will not replace us.

Make america great again.

These are not subtle slogans..

 

 

EDIT:

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/19/16909300/tucker-carlson-immigration-arizona-border-mark-steyn

Quote

 

Author, columnist, and “actual thinker” (in Carlson’s words) Mark Steyn conceded that immigration could have economic benefits, but that they are outweighed by the “cultural transformation” America is undergoing as a result. One example of this so-called transformation, Steyn said, is that “the majority of grade-school children in Arizona now are Hispanic.”

“That means, in effect, the border has moved north,” Steyn, who is Canadian, said.

 

Non-whites can't be american. That's the whole idea.

America is a white christian nation in their minds and they are fighting to keep it that way.

[DanteGabriel]

3 minutes ago, Shryke said:

It's not voting trends, it's just demographics in general. You can see it in their media all the time. They are white supremacists and they fully embrace the concept of "white genocide" and having to fight it. To prevent the US from becoming not-white-enough anymore.

You will not replace us.

Make america great again.

These are not subtle slogans..

Yep, imagine being such a mediocre loser that the only thing you can take pride in is an accident of birth: the privilege you occupy over minorities. Now all these damn hippies want to take that away too!

[Mexal]

The Russian hoax has another 13 indictments tied to it.

 

[Martell Spy]

1 hour ago, aceluby said:

This is one issue I find many Libertarians simply can't hold to.  In theory, this is true, but in practice I have yet to find any self-identified Libertarians who are actually for open borders

Well they exist at Reason.com for example. But yes in real life self-identified libertarians are generally nativists or plutocrats. White males in cowboys hats love to call themselves libertarians.

Well, Romney is running.

[DMC]

5 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Libertarians are pro open border, they just have virtually no influence on the issue.

Libertarians don't actually exist.  They're like Keyser Soze, but so much dumber, and even less so evasive of their strange fidelity to really dumb idols.  Seriously, libertarians suck hard and are hard right wingers that want to pretend they're intellectually worthwhile, when in actuality they're the last people you want to end up cornered with in any party.

[DMC]

BTW, @Fez is entirely right about the Dems leftward shift on immigration over the past decade or so.  That's a good thing in my view.  Makes things clear where both parties stand.

[Guest]

Something that Republicans and Russia have in common: they both try to suppress the minority vote.

[Fragile Bird]

Governor Scott of Florida has now called for the head of the FBI, Christopher Wray, to resign, because of the fact that a tip, a detailed tip, on the Florida shooter was not relayed to the Miami office.

The screw-up is being investigated. The information was very significant.

I wonder why Governor Scott doesn't resign, since he's done nothing to stop shootings in the 20 months since the Pulse nightclub killings.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I wonder why Governor Scott doesn't resign, since he's done nothing to stop shootings in the 20 months since the Pulse nightclub killings.

Governor Scott is running for Senate, so placing blame on any agency not under his purview is priority number 1.

[Mexal]

47 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Governor Scott is running for Senate, so placing blame on any agency not under his purview is priority number 1.

Especially an agency the Republican base doesn't like.

That being said, Wray wouldn't have seen that information or even know about it. Someone else's head has to roll but can't see how it'd be Wray's.

[Fragile Bird]

This indictment news is fascinating! https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

I am trying to quote from it but can't.

Work started in 2014.

The defendants posed as US citizens with fake US identities, and operated social media pages and groups to attract an American audience. They also stole the identities of Americans to post on those pages. They acquired US computer infrastructure to hide the fact they were Russians and to hide from US Intelligence. They sent persons to gather intelligence about the election.

They posted derogatory information about Clinton and posted support of Trump. they bought advertising and hired US persons who did not know they were Russians.

They conspired to obstruct the lawful function of the US government through fraud and deceit, making election expenditures without proper regulatory disclosure, failing to register as foreign agents and obtaining visas through false and fraudulent information.

Count 1 - Conspiracy to Defraud the United States

"...knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the US by impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the Federal Election Commission, the US Department of Justice, and the US Department of State in administering federal requirements for disclosure of foreign involvement in domestic activities."

The organization is then described, the departments it had, the hundreds of employees, a monthly budget of $1.25 M US which the organization was paid for "software support", the accounts through which the money was filtered.

They hired a US person to stand in front of the White House, holding a sign that read "Happy 55th Birthday dear Boss" on the birthday of the Russian oligarch who controlled the organization and is one of the named defendants (and who has already issued a press statement scoffing at the indictment).

The indictment goes on to list each defendant, their title and role in the organization, and the fact that many of them obtained visas and did their work in the US.

Then each named US Department is described and what rules of that department were violated.

Next post - The Conspiracy

 

 

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

28 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

This indictment news is fascinating! https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

I am trying to quote from it but can't.

Work started in 2014.

The defendants posed as US citizens with fake US identities, and operated social media pages and groups to attract an American audience. They also stole the identities of Americans to post on those pages. They acquired US computer infrastructure to hide the fact they were Russians and to hide from US Intelligence. They sent persons to gather intelligence about the election.

They posted derogatory information about Clinton and posted support of Trump. they bought advertising and hired US persons who did not know they were Russians.

They conspired to obstruct the lawful function of the US government through fraud and deceit, making election expenditures without proper regulatory disclosure, failing to register as foreign agents and obtaining visas through false and fraudulent information.

Count 1 - Conspiracy to Defraud the United States

"...knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the US by impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the Federal Election Commission, the US Department of Justice, and the US Department of State in administering federal requirements for disclosure of foreign involvement in domestic activities."

The organization is then described, the departments it had, the hundreds of employees, a monthly budget of $1.25 M US which the organization was paid for "software support", the accounts through which the money was filtered.

They hired a US person to stand in front of the White House, holding a sign that read "Happy 55th Birthday dear Boss" on the birthday of the Russian oligarch who controlled the organization and is one of the named defendants (and who has already issued a press statement scoffing at the indictment).

The indictment goes on to list each defendant, their title and role in the organization, and the fact that many of them obtained visas and did their work in the US.

Then each named US Department is described and what rules of that department were violated.

Next post - The Conspiracy

 

 

Don't leave out that they also supported Bernie Sanders and hosted a "Trump is not my President" rally.

[Fragile Bird]

The Indictment continued - The Conspiracy

Objects of the Conspiracy - I won't repeat the words of the conspiracy set out above.

Starting in 2014, the Organization studied US social media groups, tracking their metrics like the number of followers they had, how many times they posted, how their audience engaged with the site and what the average number of comments were.

They planned travel itineraries, bought equipment like sim cards and drop phones, and created 'evacuation scenarios'.

Then they travelled In June, 2014 to purple states gathering information. Nevada, California, New Mexico, Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, Louisiana, Texas and New York And then reported their findings. Later in November someone else went to Georgia, and reported their findings.

In 2016, posing as US persons, they contacted a Texas-based grassroots organization, and were advised by them to concentrate on "purple states". From then on they referred to their targets as purple states.

Use Of US Social Media Platforms

They created hundreds of US social media accounts and developed fictitious personalities to post, which they called 'specialists'. These specialists were divided into day and night shifts and to post in accordance with time zones. They were also assigned US holidays and wrote articles on political themes to post on these media sites. They were instructed to create  " 'political intensity through supporting radical groups, users dissatisfied with [the] social and economic situation and oppositional social movements.' "

They created specialized social media groups for a range of issues: immigration ("Secured Borders"), the BLM movement ("Blacktivist"), religion ("United Muslims of America" and "Army of Jesus") and geographic regions ("South United" and "Heart of Texas"). By 2016 they had hundreds of thousands of followers.

In 2015 they started buying advertising on social media.

They created many twitter accounts, including "Tennessee GOP" [what the hell did the Tennessee GOP use? Did they not have an account?] which had a handle of @TEN_GOP, which ended up with more than 100,000 followers. [A CNN commentator related how he had fights on that account about their misinformation, not realizing he was fighting with a Russian troll, so his arguments went nowhere.]

The Defendants tracked the accounts using various metrics and provided feedback to 'specialists' on how they could improve their fictitious US person characters.

[Fragile Bird]

2 minutes ago, Bold Barry Whitebeard said:

Don't leave out that they also supported Bernie Sanders and hosted a "Trump is not my President" rally.

Don't repeat the whole post, please use 'snip'!  I am doing a page by page summary, and am not there yet.

[DMC]

Fuck it dude, I'm gonna go watch Pan's Labyrinth.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

15 hours ago, Kalbear said:

How unpopular is ending DACA, exactly? 

I get people don't like it - but they don't like school shootings either, and yet that seems to happen fairly regularly without anything changing. I get that it would be upsetting, but would it actually change people's vote?

I doubt it.

Do you mean changing conservatives' votes? Yeah, I think nothing does that, at least not in any way that's helpful. I do think ending DACA is just a piece of changing voting patterns for those who haven't participated in elections (due to various, valid issues). Those potential voters stopped Roy Moore, if only barely, and though that wasn't DACA, it's a combo of the MeToo movement, Dreamers, DACA, and Black Lives Matter movement that are getting people engaged.