Darth Sidious Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Why Do People Want Lady Stoneheart to Die? Because I like the Freys and I don't want to see them killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Lovejoy Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/18/2018 at 3:21 PM, Angel Eyes said: Because I don’t see any point in having Catelyn running around as a zombie hangwoman. Pretty much this. LSH's existence necessitates more pages being devoted to something that isn't The Others vs. Stannis/Jon and Danerys attempting to conquer Westeros. That makes it less likely ASOIAF will be satisfyingly finished in 2 books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 She died already after being betrayed by the Freys and Boltons and seeing her son killed before her eyes and then having her throat slit. Her naked body was dumped in a mockery of the funeral rights of House Tully into the Green Fork before floating downstream and being dragged ashore by Nymeria a couple of days later only to be resurrected. She deserves to be returned to a properly dead state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wm Portnoy Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 14 hours ago, Agent Orange said: Why Do People Want Lady Stoneheart to Die? Because I like the Freys and I don't want to see them killed. Honest answer and you're not alone in thinking this. People don't really care that much what happens to LS but there are more than a few readers who like the Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Wm Portnoy said: Honest answer and you're not alone in thinking this. People don't really care that much what happens to LS but there are more than a few readers who like the Freys. Are these the same readers who like Janos Slynt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of the Steppes Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/19/2018 at 9:49 AM, LiveFirstDieLater said: I’m with you, I don’t think Lady Stoneheart is some different creature from Cat... she’s just really angry. This is more a culmination of her bitterness and desire for vengeance somehow persisting beyond the grave. Punishing indiscriminately for perceived sins, guilty and innocent alike. Cat is sort of misplaced vengeance personified. Be it Jon, Tyrion, or the sad little bells... she often punishes innocents for crimes they didn’t commit. Exactly. As to some of the other theories in the OP, anything is possible at this point, but you don't show any evidence to support. Quote "You must name another heir, until such time as Jeyne gives you a son." She considered a moment. "Your father's father had no siblings, but his father had a sister who married a younger son of Lord Raymar Royce, of the junior branch. They had three daughters, all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest . . . it might have been a Templeton, but . . ." "Mother." There was a sharpness in Robb's tone. "You forget. My father had four sons." She had not forgotten; she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. "A Snow is not a Stark." "Jon's more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell." "Jon is a brother of the Night's Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those who take the black serve for life." "So do the knights of the Kingsguard. That did not stop the Lannisters from stripping the white cloaks from Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Boros Blount when they had no more use for them. If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon's place, I'll wager they find some way to release him from his vows." He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. "A bastard cannot inherit." "Not unless he's legitimized by a royal decree," said Robb. "There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath." "Precedent," she said bitterly. "Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on his deathbed. And how much pain, grief, war, and murder grew from that? I know you trust Jon. But can you trust his sons? Or their sons? The Blackfyre pretenders troubled the Targaryens for five generations, until Barristan the Bold slew the last of them on the Stepstones. If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again. Should he wed and breed, any sons you may have by Jeyne will never be safe." "Jon would never harm a son of mine." "No more than Theon Greyjoy would harm Bran or Rickon?" Grey Wind leapt up atop King Tristifer's crypt, his teeth bared. Robb's own face was cold. "That is as cruel as it is unfair. Jon is no Theon." "So you pray. Have you considered your sisters? What of their rights? I agree that the north must not be permitted to pass to the Imp, but what of Arya? By law, she comes after Sansa . . . your own sister, trueborn . . ." ". . . and dead. No one has seen or heard of Arya since they cut Father's head off. Why do you lie to yourself? Arya's gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they'll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice." "I cannot," she said. "In all else, Robb. In everything. But not in this . . . this folly. Do not ask it." Why in the world would Cat support Jon as KitN, when she did everything she could to argue against him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 hours ago, White Ravens said: Are these the same readers who like Janos Slynt? If Ramsay can have his fans then why not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Gogh Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/20/2018 at 10:07 AM, Agent Orange said: Why Do People Want Lady Stoneheart to Die? Because I like the Freys and I don't want to see them killed. I don't really care about the Freys or what happens to them. I'm neutral towards the Freys though I like Lothar, big Walder, and Hosteen. I do have a strong dislike for the Starks. Maybe that is why I want Stoneheart to die. I don't want the Starks to get revenge on their enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lAPPYc Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 18 hours ago, Wolf of the Steppes said: Why in the world would Cat support Jon as KitN, when she did everything she could to argue against him? Well, the dead people change after their death, and what Catelyn said: 18 hours ago, Wolf of the Steppes said: "I cannot," she said. "In all else, Robb. In everything. But not in this . . . this folly. Do not ask it." It's wrong, it is actually not folly, just her biases telling her that it is. Maybe after dying, she will come around. But I am not hedging my bets on that. Quoting myself: Quote Well, Stoneheart does. I think she is going to come north, maybe to exchange the Kingslayer for her son who is in hands of Stannis's Hand. Or maybe to place Jon Snow on the throne of the North like Robb wanted, or Stannis, so that her daughters, who are in the wind, may know that there is a safe place to return, or simply to unite the North so she could show Cersei Lannister how gentle a woman can be. Stoneheart wants her daughters back. But to search for a hiding person is hard, as Brienne's travels prove. Better to set up a beacon. It might be Stannis, who's Hand most likely also has her son. True, this is just speculation, but so is the main claim I made this post to battle: Stoneheart will die at the hands of someone righteous because she will do something to deserve it. There is no evidence to support that, as far as I know. Everybody dies in ASoIaF, so no matter how you feel about her hellish life, it's gonna come to an end eventually. I would just like for Cat to get her revenge before she snuffs it. Further speculation: I mentioned that her coming north will help solidify Jon's claim, and that does not need her saying that she supports him. For the conspirators of the Grand Northern Conspiracy, the biggest obstacle will be to convince the North to not hold Jon as a deserter and hang him for and oathbreaker. There will be no smooth transition that the TV Series showed. The fandom explanation that he died and thereby fulfilled his vow will be dismissed as a lie, until they see Stoneheart, whether rooting for Stannis or Rickon or Jon himself. Her ravaged face(Why was it ravaged? Was George just preparing her to go north and convince people that not all dead who come back are wights?) will be proof that dead do come back, no matter which king she is supporting. Something that is not speculation: I believe that Jaime is scheduled to die on the Wall. You can go to read my other post Jaime and the Burning Swords for my reasoning. Who would take Jaime to the Wall? Especially when he was thinking of how to save Tommen from Cersei? I think that it is Stoneheart that will do that. If she hears that her son is in Davos's hands, she might go for a hostage exchange. Of course, these action is also wishful thinking. But as I said, I made this post to battle the seeming feeling that Stoneheart will die out of dishonorable actions. Wanting her dead just because you can't envision how she will influence the broader game of the series is not a valid argument. That will require you to start hoping for a meteor to fall on the north, wiping out all the Others, because none of us know how the Others will be defeated. If you can already envision how the Others will be defeated, there will be no more need for further novels, and we know that that isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lAPPYc Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 20/2/2018 at 11:13 PM, Lucius Lovejoy said: Pretty much this. LSH's existence necessitates more pages being devoted to something that isn't The Others vs. Stannis/Jon and Danerys attempting to conquer Westeros. That makes it less likely ASOIAF will be satisfyingly finished in 2 books. I don't get why people think that every other plot needs to stop before the threat to the Others is fought against. Just because they showed it that way in the show doesn't mean that it is true. There is no need for the wars of the Seven Kingdoms to stop to battle the Others, the Others can just be another house in this battle. Of course, it will be helpful if everybody is united against them, but that doesn't mean that it will happen. But then again, the people that Stoneheart wants to take out are the ones that are opposing the main party that right now seems to be the one who will fight the Others: Stannis and/or Jon. So maybe she will be instrumental to ending some of their enemies, like Jaime maybe, or the Freys. Quote LSH's existence necessitates more pages being devoted to something that isn't The Others vs. Stannis/Jon and Danerys attempting to conquer Westeros. Well, I said that Stoneheart has the potential to ease Jon's transition to the throne of the north, and that is part of the Others vs Jon plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martianmister Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 She's a danger to other living beings. She needs to be exterminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 6 hours ago, martianmister said: She's a danger to other living beings. She needs to be exterminated. She's mostly a danger to lower forms of life. Freys, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Light a wight tonight said: She's mostly a danger to lower forms of life. Freys, for instance. Hey, Olyvar is Frey too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, Kandrax said: Hey, Olyvar is Frey too. He's the white sheep of the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 H&H Magnum Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 6:07 PM, Helena Kyle said: I don't really care about the Freys or what happens to them. I'm neutral towards the Freys though I like Lothar, big Walder, and Hosteen. I do have a strong dislike for the Starks. Maybe that is why I want Stoneheart to die. I don't want the Starks to get revenge on their enemies. They're not on my list of favorites but I like the Freys. I don't like the Starks because I don't like Jon, Arya, and Bran. That has an influence on how I feel about Lady Stoneheart. I'm willing to let the red wedding go unanswered. I didn't like it when Cat and the BwoB killed the Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of the Steppes Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 13 hours ago, lAPPYc said: It's wrong, it is actually not folly, just her biases telling her that it is. Maybe after dying, she will come around. But I am not hedging my bets on that. Quoting myself: Perhaps you didn't read what I said before that... She blames others and condemns them before dying. Jon, Tyrion, Aegon-"Jinglebell". She continued to condemn people innocent of the crimes she accuses them of after her "death"....... Brienne, Podrick, Hyle Hunt, Jaime. They're not all innocent of crimes, but innocent of what she accuses them of doing. I know... you said you're not betting on her "coming around". I was just making the point that she's never going to support Jon as KitN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: He's the white sheep of the family. All the children? All the women? Fair and fat Wald seemed pretty decent-I really can't say I'm looking forward to them being killed(though the latter I admit is almost certain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: All the children? All the women? Fair and fat Wald seemed pretty decent-I really can't say I'm looking forward to them being killed(though the latter I admit is almost certain). Not counting women and children, decent Freys are: Stevron Ryger Rivers Cleos Perwyn Alessander Olyvar Jinglebell Arwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmberEmpress Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I'd like Lady Stoneheart to die by giving her life force to Jon. I think that would make a nice redemption for all the years of emotional abuse. However I doubt that's the case as the text seems to indicate Ghost and warging will be involved in his resurrection. in all likelihood she'll be killed by Brienne and Jaime in the beginning of Winds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 What's the point with all these posts stating “I don't like X” — “I hate the Y's” —“I don't care about House Z” — “I want all the Xs dead”, etc. This is kindergarten talk… What does it bring in a discussion, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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