House Targaryen words meaning= GOOD

[Lady Blizzardborn]

6 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

You're right, that's the Arryn words.  Still, they are just words that are not indicative of the family traits.  Asshole is not necessarily a genetic trait except for the rectum.

The female Targaryens are just as well-known and studied.  No madness on record for them.

Actually, yes it can be a genetic trait.

As I said, it depends on how you define madness. Aelora would probably be the best argument, leaving out those described as "simple." 

Post-Conquest Targ men about whom little is known:

Aegon, son of Prince Baelon (son of Jaehaerys I) 
one or two sons of Daemon Blackfyre
Maegor, son of Aerion

Post-Conquest Targ women about whom little is known:

Aerea, daughter of Princess Rhaena (daughter of Aenys I)
Rhalla, daughter of Princess Rhaena (daughter of Aenys I)
Saera, daughter of Jaehaerys I
Rhaena's (daughter of Prince Daemon) five daughters with Garmund Hightower
Laena Penrose, daughter of Princess Elaena
Jocelyn Penrose, daughter of Priness Elaena
Joy Penrose, daughter of Princess Elaena
Alysanne, daughter of Aegon IV
Lily, daughter of Aegon IV
Rosey, daughter of Aegon IV
Willow, daughter of Aegon IV
Bellanora, daughter of Aegon IV
Narha, daughter of Aegon IV
Mya, daughter of Aegon IV
Gwenys, daughter of Aegon IV
the latter part of the life of Shiera Seastar, daughter of Aegon IV
various other unknown daughters of Aegon IV
Calla, daughter of Daemon Blackfyre
another, daughter of Daemon Blackfyre
Rhae, daughter of Maekar I
Daella, daughter of Maekar I
Vaella, daughter of Daeron the Drunken

Just as well-known and studied, huh?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

7 hours ago, zandru said:

No. I was asking specifically how Valyrian steel was made. Apparently, there are still some who do some limited forging of pre-existing swords, like Tobho Mott.

The Y chromosome, in humans, determines maleness. Females are XX. Men are XY. YY is non-viable. There are variations with 3 of the sex chromosomes, but there's no need to go into atypical complexities. Basically, only males (aka men) have a Y.

We don't know how Valyrian Steel is made. We know spells are involved, and dragon bones are not. It is suspected by many that blood sacrifice is involved.

Reworking pre-forged VS is apparently far less difficult than creating it in the first place.

Both Y and X chromosomes can carry "bad" traits. Some things are known to be passed down through the maternal line, others through the paternal, but both sides have the X either way so it's no use pinning anything specifically on the Y.

[Darth Sidious]

Here is an interesting discussion from last year that I really liked.

So far as the house words go, yeah, they don't necessarily mean anything.  But they can give us a clue how the early members, the ones who were around when the words were composed, see themselves.  We have to remember that the Targaryens are conquerors and the last of the ruling families of Old Valyria, the last of the families that ruled the Freehold.  Their house words reflect pride in their heritage.   

[Lost Melnibonean]

I have wondered whether the George's use of the phrase "blood and fire" (as opposed to "fire and blood") was a hint at Aegon being one of the three heads of Rhaegar's dragon, but after reviewing all the occurrences of that phrase, as well as "blood and flame" and "fire and blood," in the novels and the Tales of Dunk and Egg, I don't think that's true. I think the George uses the three phrases as euphemisms for brutal, total war.

At the dawn of the modern era, the Spanish government used the term "fire and blood" to describe its military campaigns against Native Americans in the New World. And the term has been used by authors and commenters to describe other vicious and bloody conflicts. (By contrast the Salvation Army's motto "Blood and Fire" refers to the blood of Christ and the fire of the Holy Spirit.)

Curiously, none of the three phrases is used in Game. The first use is in the prologue to Clash, when Maester Cressen used "blood and flame" to describe the color of the comet. Varys then told us, "'In the streets, they call it the Red Messenger,' Varys said. 'They say it comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow.'" Tyrion I, Clash 3. And when Bran asked Osha what the comet meant, she told him, "Blood and fire, boy, and nothing sweet." Bran I, Clash 4. (After learning the words of House Targaryen later, the attentive reader would note that Old Nan apparently agreed, "'Dragons,'" she said, lifting her head and sniffing. She was near blind and could not see the comet, yet she claimed she could smell it. 'It be dragons, boy, she insisted.'" Bran I, Clash 4.)

The next time we see the expression, we see a transition from a description of the comet to a euphemism for total war . . .
 

"That thing's not crimson," Ser Brynden said. "Nor Tully red, the mud red of the river. That's blood up there, child, smeared across the sky."

"Our blood or theirs?"

"Was there ever a war where only one side bled?" Her uncle gave a shake of the head. "The riverlands are awash in blood and flame all around the Gods Eye. The fighting has spread south to the Blackwater and north across the Trident, almost to the Twins.

Catelyn I, Clash 7

The transition is completed when Theon uses the terms interchangeably . . .
 

War was an ironman's proper trade. The Drowned God had made them to reave and rape, to carve out kingdoms and write their names in fire and blood and song.

. . .

Lord Eddard had tried to play the father from time to time, but to Theon he had always remained the man who'd brought blood and fire to Pyke and taken him from his home.

Theon I, Clash 11

We don't see the phrase again until we get to the Battle of the Blackwater, when "Tyrion swung his horse about to peer down the Blackwater. The current still flowed black and strong beneath, but the surface was a roil of blood and flame." Tyrion XIV, Clash 61. "When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found [the Hound's] cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire." Sansa VII, Clash 62.

Then, in Storm, Daenerys tells us that Blood and Fire are the words of House Targaryen . . .
 

"When Aegon the Dragon stepped ashore in Westeros, the kings of Vale and Rock and Reach did not rush to hand him their crowns. If you mean to sit his Iron Throne, you must win it as he did, with steel and dragonfire. And that will mean blood on your hands before the thing is done."

Blood and fire, thought Dany. The words of House Targaryen. She had known them all her life.

Daenerys II, Storm 23

At the end of Storm, she told us, "'Aegon the Conqueror brought fire and blood to Westeros, but afterward he gave them peace, prosperity, and justice.'" Daenerys VI, Storm 71.

In the Sworn Sword, Dunk suggests that Daenerys reversed the order of the words of House Targaryen, telling us, "Fire and Blood were the words of House Targaryen." But she may have just been echoing Jorah who had just said "steel and dragonfire." 

From afar, Arya echoes Ser Brynden's description of the Riverlands . . .
 

The wolf dreams were the good ones. In the wolf dreams she was swift and strong, running down her prey with her pack at her heels. It was the other dream she hated, the one where she had two feet instead of four. In that one she was always looking for her mother, stumbling through a wasted land of mud and blood and fire.

Cat of the Canals, Feast 34

But perhaps The George was signaling the Blackfyre when Doran used the words of House Targaryen to tell Arianne what he desired, "'Vengeance.' His voice was soft, as if he were afraid that someone might be listening. 'Justice.' Prince Doran pressed the onyx dragon into her palm with his swollen, gouty fingers, and whispered, 'Fire and blood." The Princess in the Tower, Feast 40.

Dunk then used the phrase to describe a dragon's egg at the Traitors' Tourney . . .
 

He was carrying the little man across the room to chuck him out the door when he saw the dragon's egg.

Lord Butterwell had placed it on a black velvet cushion atop a marble plinth. It was much bigger than a hen's egg, though not so big as he'd imagined.

Fine red scales covered its surface, shining bright as jewels by the light of lamps and candles. Dunk dropped the dwarf and picked up the egg, just to feel it for a moment. It was heavier than he'd expected. You could smash a man's head with this, and never crack the shell. The scales were smooth beneath his fingers, and the deep, rich red seemed to shimmer as he turned the egg in his hands. Blood and flame, he thought, but there were gold flecks in it as well, and whorls of midnight black.

The Mystery Knight

Did you notice that the dragon's egg to be awarded to the winner of the Traitors' Tourney had black on red, i.e., Blackfyre colors? Drogon hatched from a red on black egg, i.e. Targaryen colors. 

So that's 14 uses of variations on the phrase fire and blood before Dance. In Dance alone, the George would use variations of the phrase 18 times.

First, Jon described Melisandre's hair as "blood and flame." Jon I, Dance 3. Then Illyrio used the phrase to describe his apparent newfound respect for Daenerys, "'The frightened child who sheltered in my manse died on the Dothraki sea, and was reborn in blood and fire. This dragon queen who wears her name is a true Targaryen. When I sent ships to bring her home, she turned toward Slaver's Bay. In a short span of days she conquered Astapor, made Yunkai bend the knee, and sacked Meereen.'" Tyrion II, Dance 5.

Vey interestingly, one of the books on dragons that Tyrion wished he had was "sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons." Tyrion IV, Dance 14.

Daenerys thinks that she raised her host out of "blood and fire," and that she was born to serve "blood and fire" to her enemies in Westeros. Daenerys III, Dance 16. Galazza Galare warns that Daenerys's reign in Meereen will "end as it began, in blood and fire," unless she weds Hizdahr, and Hizdahr tells Daenerys that she awakened Meereen with "fire and blood." Daenerys IV, Dance 23. Similarly, Tyrion muses that Valyria was built on, and destroyed in "blood and fire." Tyrion VIII, Dance 33.

Daenerys corrected her inversion of the words of House Targaryen in Daenerys VI, Dance 36, and when Quentyn tells Daenerys that he has come for her, she tells him that he has come for "fire and blood," Daenerys VIII, Dance 50, which Quentyn recalls in The Spurned Suitor, Dance 60.

Back in Westeros, Asha tells us that the queen's men refer to their human sacrifices to Rhllor as "offerings of blood and fire." The Sacrifice, Dance 62.

As Quentyn prepared to rustle Rhaegal and Viserion, he "lay abed, staring at his ceiling, dreaming without sleeping, remembering, imagining, twisting beneath his linen coverlet, his mind feverish with thoughts of fire and blood," and as men died during the attempt he thought they died for "fire and blood" and "blood and fire." The Dragontamer, Dance 68.

Echoing Galazza, Barristan feared that if Drogon returned "to Meereen without Daenerys mounted on his back, the city would erupt in blood and flame,"and he resolved to serve Yunkai "fire and blood," should they refuse his terms. The Queen's Hand, Dance 70.

Finally, in the swaying grass of the Dothraki Sea, Daenerys remembered her words, "fire and blood." Daenerys X, Dance 71. Perhaps that means she's finally ready to head home. 

The George also used the phrase "blood and smoke" five times when describing battle or its aftermath. He used "smoke and blood" to described Robert's deathbed and Quentyn's deathbed, Melisandre's scent, and the scent of wildings fleeing the battle between the Mance and Stannis.

As Tyrion travels by litter through King's Landing, he observes a hedge prophet preaching against the Lannisters, against Stannis, against the High Septon, and against Robert. A power vacuum has followed Robert's death, with snakes hissing and biting. Then he points at the comet and the Red Keep on Aegon's high Hill and warns of blood and fire...
 

The sound of some hubbub in the street intruded on his worries. Tyrion peered out cautiously between the curtains. They were passing through Cobbler's Square, where a sizable crowd had gathered beneath the leather awnings to listen to the rantings of a prophet. A robe of undyed wool belted with a hempen rope marked him for one of the begging brothers.

"Corruption!" the man cried shrilly. "There is the warning! Behold the Father's scourge!" He pointed at the fuzzy red wound in the sky. From this vantage, the distant castle on Aegon's High Hill was directly behind him, with the comet hanging forebodingly over its towers. A clever choice of stage, Tyrion reflected. "We have become swollen, bloated, foul. Brother couples with sister in the bed of kings, and the fruit of their incest capers in his palace to the piping of a twisted little monkey demon. Highborn ladies fornicate with fools and give birth to monsters! Even the High Septon has forgotten the gods! He bathes in scented waters and grows fat on lark and lamprey while his people starve! Pride comes before prayer, maggots rule our castles, and gold is all . . . but no more! The Rotten Summer is at an end, and the Whoremonger King is brought low! When the boar did open him, a great stench rose to heaven and a thousand snakes slid forth from his belly, hissing and biting!" He jabbed his bony finger back at comet and castle. "There comes the Harbinger! Cleanse yourselves, the gods cry out, lest ye be cleansed! Bathe in the wine of righteousness, or you shall be bathed in fire! Fire!"

Tyrion V, Clash

Note that Daenerys's dragons were described as snakes...
 

When she had her handmaids char the horsemeat black, the dragons ripped at it eagerly, their heads striking like snakes.

Daenerys I, Clash

[Tygett Lannister]

On 2/19/2018 at 4:40 AM, Sea Dragon said:

And I also believe that the Targaryen madness is a lie.

Yeah I'm sure that Targaryen madness is just anti-Targaryen propaganda and has nothing to do with the endless incest. Even Viserises rage is actually Martin's propaganda because he is part of anti-Targareyen alliance.

[The Commentator]

19 hours ago, Allardyce said:

The Targaryens are not known for making human sacrifices.  You may be thinking of the Starks that Bran saw in his visions.  But the Targs made sacrifices of their own.  They sacrificed love and true romance.  Many of the Targaryens never got the chance to marry the person they wanted.  They had to preserve the talent for dragon riding.  They basically had a lot of unhappy couples in the family.   Depression, marital infidelity, alcoholism can happen in unhappy homes.

 

19 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

No the price is blood, children, Dany did by accident what they'd forgotten how.

The dragons hatched on their own hundreds of years ago.  They had no need for artificial incubation because 1) the eggs were fresh, 2) the parents took care of the eggs.  By the time of book 1, all the fresh dragon eggs are gone.  Illyrio had to get his three from Asshai and they are not fresh.  They are so old that they have turned to stone.  There are no living dragons to act as parents and incubate the eggs.  Our hero had to fulfill the role of parent after the impossible feat of bringing life back to petrified eggs.  

[The Commentator]

On 2/19/2018 at 1:01 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Only the Targaryens males lose their minds.  There has never been a case of a female Targaryen going mad.  And even among the males it was rare.

There are no record of a female Targaryen going mad.  I agree with Damsel's post.  The females are not vulnerable to madness but the males are.  

[Kandrax]

Speaking about mad Targs, can someone explain me how was Aegon II mad?

[Wm Portnoy]

The house words is more like a high school motto.  It's a bit immature really but it says more about the pride and haughtiness of the nobles of that time.