Dany's suicide?

[AlaskanSandman]

9 minutes ago, Megorova said:

You're forgetting who she is. She's a princess. I can bet that she never washed dishes after eating, never washed her clothes, never even fastened her shoes on her own. Her maids wash her body, brush her hair, help her to wear her clothes, to take off her clothes, etc. And she always had servants, even when she and Viserys were on the run, after they left their house in Braavos, when Dany was five.

In a span of her entire life, for one year, that she has spent in the Dothraki Sea, she was riding every day. That was the hardest work, that she ever did in her entire life - holding reins. And that was over a year ago. Because for the last year, since Qarth, she was mostly carried in palanquin. And she lived a life of a Queen. She was pampered, and all her needs were satisfied by her servants. Her life is very different from ours. Skin on her hands, is as tender as flower petals. Because she barely even uses her hands to do anything.

So on the rocks her tender hands were severely damaged, till the point of her skin coming off her palms.  

If that were the case, then little kids every where would never take up climbing. Kid, teen, adult. Caluses take time to develope. The blisters caused by this though wouldn't be of that kind of magnitude. Im also fairly sure Dany has dealt with blisters by that point after her Horse riding in the dothraki sea. She chowed a fricking heart down for christ sake and faced the Red Sands to Qaarth. All before this point in the story. I dont think Dany is the feignt of heart or soft little thing she might have been in her youth. 

[AlaskanSandman]

I did a different thread aproaching dragons from a different angle with who hatched Quicksilver. In it i think ive pinned some of the things needed to hatch dragons, in unison to what we see with Dany.

The one thing we never see though any where's else like we do with Dany though, is her walking into those fires. Be it a spell of Mirri's or something special about her, this is definitely rare.  

Though back to the OP. Her flesh being burned away, or her hair etc has absolutely nothing to do with her lungs still needing oxygen to breath and survive. So that you know, oxygen can go her blood vessels and then go to her brain so she doesn't get light headed, pass out, and then suffocate to death.  

Even if she could survive the heat she would be breathing in, it shoulnd't change the fact that she still needs oxygen. 

Being fire proof doesnt mean you cant be hanged or choked out like Diaz on McGreggor. 

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Even if she could survive the heat she would be breathing in, it shoulnd't change the fact that she still needs oxygen. 

Being fire proof doesnt mean you cant be hanged or choked out like Diaz on McGreggor. 

Dragons breathe oxygen, and they also breathe out fire and smoke. And they don't get suffocated because of carbone dioxide in their lungs and airways. Which means that Dany could be also like a dragon, same as them she can breathe thru fire and smoke.

[AlaskanSandman]

11 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Dragons breathe oxygen, and they also breathe out fire and smoke. And they don't get suffocated because of carbone dioxide in their lungs and airways. Which means that Dany could be also like a dragon, same as them she can breathe thru fire and smoke.

Your seriously implying that Dany can breath fire like a dragon? Also, dragons dont typically breath fire. Even if they were spitting fire from their bowls instead of just their mouths like typically depicted, they wouldn't be breathing in at the same time as shooting fire. Humans can do this too. Also there wouldn't be carbon dioxide being inhaled by the dragon. Again, his air ways would likely close upon shooting fire. Also, Dany is not a dragon, she is a human. Or are we just going to OP her now? She's fire proof, breathes smoke and fire, births dragons, doesn't need oxygen, and what else? 

 

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Your seriously implying that Dany can breath fire like a dragon?

No I'm implying that she won't die, just because she breathed in some smoke, or even lots of smoke. It's more like, she sort of has immunity against gas / smoke / carbon dioxide poisoning.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Or are we just going to OP her now? She's fire proof, breathes smoke and fire, births dragons, doesn't need oxygen, and what else?

She's an alien Just kidding.

Though she has immunity to all diseases, which is unusual.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Also, dragons dont typically breath fire. Even if they were spitting fire from their bowls instead of just their mouths like typically depicted, they wouldn't be breathing in at the same time as shooting fire.

Their blood is also fire. Dragons are fire made flesh. So probably inside of them they are made of fire and bones (they are hard as diamonds).

This thing about their blood being fire, is something like aliens in Ridley Scott's movie with Sigourney Weaver, their blood is acid. So dragon's blood is also something like that - there are fire inside their bodies, but it doesn't burn them, same as acid-blood of those aliens in the movie, doesn't burn them from inside of them, though when their blood is spilled, then it does burn even them.

This is quote about Dany's immunity, ADWD:

Quote

“I am the blood of the dragon,” Dany reminded him. “Have you ever seen a dragon with the flux?” Viserys had oft claimed that Targaryens were untroubled by the pestilences that afflicted common men, and so far as she could tell, it was true. She could remember being cold and hungry and afraid, but never sick.

So could be that Targaryens are some sort of hybrids, or they are genetically modified, and because of this modifications they don't burn and can withstand smoke and hight temperatures. Though in their world it's called magic. And not all Targaryens had those fireproof properties. For example Viserys, Aerion Brightflame, Aegon II.

[the trees have eyes]

17 hours ago, Megorova said:

You're forgetting who she is. She's a princess. I can bet that she never washed dishes after eating, never washed her clothes, never even fastened her shoes on her own. Her maids wash her body, brush her hair, help her to wear her clothes, to take off her clothes, etc. And she always had servants, even when she and Viserys were on the run, after they left their house in Braavos, when Dany was five.

In a span of her entire life, for one year, that she has spent in the Dothraki Sea, she was riding every day. That was the hardest work, that she ever did in her entire life - holding reins. And that was over a year ago. Because for the last year, since Qarth, she was mostly carried in palanquin. And she lived a life of a Queen. She was pampered, and all her needs were satisfied by her servants. Her life is very different from ours. Skin on her hands, is as tender as flower petals. Because she barely even uses her hands to do anything.

So on the rocks her tender hands were severely damaged, till the point of her skin coming off her palms.  

I'm not forgetting who she is. You are right to point out how much the Dothraki lifestyle tougheded her up but then you have to dismiss it in order to make her incapable of using her hands without burning them on rocks.  That doesn't really work.  And what about her poor dainty feet, her barked shins and lacerated forearms and elbows?  She's not fireproof, GRRM made it clear that Drogo'd funeral pyre was achieved by blood magic and sacrifice not by her special nature.

[Megorova]

27 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

She's not fireproof, GRRM made it clear that Drogo'd funeral pyre was achieved by blood magic and sacrifice not by her special nature.

What about this? -> AGOT, Dany's last chapter:

Quote

Only the birth of her dragons amidst the fire and smoke of Khal Drogo’s funeral pyre had spared Dany herself from being dragged back to Vaes Dothrak to live out the remainder of her days amongst the crones of the dosh khaleen.

The fire burned away my hair, but elsewise it did not touch me. It had been the same in Daznak’s Pit.

Are you completely ignoring this part, or you don't understand its meaning? -> "It had been the same in Daznak's Pit." - What was THE SAME? -> The fire burning away only her hair, and not touching her anywhere else.

And in Daznak's Pit there was no blood magic, no maegies, no rituals performed. So how come she wasn't burned by dragon fire in the Daznak's Pit?

If you think that first time, at Drogo's funeral, she wasn't burned, except of her hair, because she was protected by blood magic and birth of her dragons, then why didn't fire burned her in Daznak's Pit, where there was NO magic?

BOTH times the fire didn't burned her. At Drogo's funeral, and at Daznak's Pit. She wasn't burned by fire, TWISE, and only her hair got burned both times.

So what GRRM wrote, and what he's saying in his interviews don't add up. If Dany has no special fireproof nature, and her unburning in Drogo's funeral pyre, was because of blood magic, then why didn't she burned in the Daznak's Pit?

And she didn't burned there, here's the proof of it:

Quote

The fire burned away my hair, but elsewise it did not touch me. It had been the same in Daznak’s Pit.

What is this, if not a contradiction, to what GRRM has said in his interview?

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

What about this? -> AGOT, Dany's last chapter:

Are you completely ignoring this part, or you don't understand its meaning? -> "It had been the same in Daznak's Pit." - What was THE SAME? -> The fire burning away only her hair, and not touching her anywhere else.

And in Daznak's Pit there was no blood magic, no maegies, no rituals performed. So how come she wasn't burned by dragon fire in the Daznak's Pit?

If you think that first time, at Drogo's funeral, she wasn't burned, except of her hair, because she was protected by blood magic and birth of her dragons, then why didn't fire burned her in Daznak's Pit, where there was NO magic?

BOTH times the fire didn't burned her. At Drogo's funeral, and at Daznak's Pit. She wasn't burned by fire, TWISE, and only her hair got burned both times.

So what GRRM wrote, and what he's saying in his interviews don't add up. If Dany has no special fireproof nature, and her unburning in Drogo's funeral pyre, was because of blood magic, then why didn't she burned in the Daznak's Pit?

And she didn't burned there, here's the proof of it:

What is this, if not a contradiction, to what GRRM has said in his interview?

This is correct.  And remember, what George says in the interview can be contradicted later.  Like the man said before, he reserves the right to change his mind.  Sure, he said that Targaryens in general are not fireproof and what happened during Drogo's cremation is a unique event.  But he never said specifically that Daenerys herself is not fire resistant and he also never said that it will never happen again. 

Daznak's Pit is the proof that it happened again.  No Mirri Maz Duur to credit this time around.  So we have to assume MMD had nothing to do with it during Drogo's cremation.  It may have to do with the blood of the dragon.  There is no blood flow to the hair and so it was not protected by the blood of the dragon. 

[Tygett Lannister]

Claim to 7 kingdoms lost gg.

[the trees have eyes]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

What about this? -> AGOT, Dany's last chapter:

Are you completely ignoring this part, or you don't understand its meaning? -> "It had been the same in Daznak's Pit." - What was THE SAME? -> The fire burning away only her hair, and not touching her anywhere else.

And in Daznak's Pit there was no blood magic, no maegies, no rituals performed. So how come she wasn't burned by dragon fire in the Daznak's Pit?

If you think that first time, at Drogo's funeral, she wasn't burned, except of her hair, because she was protected by blood magic and birth of her dragons, then why didn't fire burned her in Daznak's Pit, where there was NO magic?

BOTH times the fire didn't burned her. At Drogo's funeral, and at Daznak's Pit. She wasn't burned by fire, TWISE, and only her hair got burned both times.

So what GRRM wrote, and what he's saying in his interviews don't add up. If Dany has no special fireproof nature, and her unburning in Drogo's funeral pyre, was because of blood magic, then why didn't she burned in the Daznak's Pit?

And she didn't burned there, here's the proof of it:

What is this, if not a contradiction, to what GRRM has said in his interview?

I'm not ignoring anything but I think you may be.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IX

The spearmen were running too. Some were rushing toward the dragon, spears in hand. Others were rushing away, throwing down their weapons as they fled. The hero was jerking on the sand, the bright blood pouring from the ragged stump of his shoulder. His spear remained in Drogon's back, wobbling as the dragon beat his wings. Smoke rose from the wound. As the other spears closed in, the dragon spat fire, bathing two men in black flame. His tail lashed sideways and caught the pitmaster creeping up behind him, breaking him in two. Another attacker stabbed at his eyes until the dragon caught him in his jaws and tore his belly out. The Meereenese were screaming, cursing, howling. Dany could hear someone pounding after her. "Drogon," she screamed. "Drogon." His head turned. Smoke rose between his teeth. His blood was smoking too, where it dripped upon the ground. He beat his wings again, sending up a choking storm of scarlet sand. Dany stumbled into the hot red cloud, coughing. He snapped.

"No" was all that she had time to say. No, not me, don't you know me? The black teeth closed inches from her face. He meant to tear my head off. The sand was in her eyes. She stumbled over the pitmaster's corpse and fell on her backside.

Drogon roared. The sound filled the pit. A furnace wind engulfed her. The dragon's long scaled neck stretched toward her. When his mouth opened, she could see bits of broken bone and charred flesh between his black teeth. His eyes were molten. I am looking into hell, but I dare not look away. She had never been so certain of anything. If I run from him, he will burn me and devour me. In Westeros the septons spoke of seven hells and seven heavens, but the Seven Kingdoms and their gods were far away. If she died here, Dany wondered, would the horse god of the Dothraki part the grass and claim her for his starry khalasar, so she might ride the nightlands beside her sun-and-stars? Or would the angry gods of Ghis send their harpies to seize her soul and drag her down to torment? Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin. Off to her right Dany heard Barristan Selmy shouting, "Me! Try me. Over here. Me!"

In the smoldering red pits of Drogon's eyes, Dany saw her own reflection. How small she looked, how weak and frail and scared. I cannot let him see my fear. She scrabbled in the sand, pushing against the pitmaster's corpse, and her fingers brushed against the handle of his whip. Touching it made her feel braver. The leather was warm, alive. Drogon roared again, the sound so loud that she almost dropped the whip. His teeth snapped at her.

Dany hit him. "No," she screamed, swinging the lash with all the strength that she had in her. The dragon jerked his head back. "No," she screamed again. "NO!" The barbs raked along his snout. Drogon rose, his wings covering her in shadow. Dany swung the lash at his scaled belly, back and forth until her arm began to ache. His long serpentine neck bent like an archer's bow. With a hisssssss, he spat black fire down at her. Dany darted underneath the flames, swinging the whip and shouting, "No, no, no. Get DOWN!" His answering roar was full of fear and fury, full of pain. His wings beat once, twice …

… and folded. The dragon gave one last hiss and stretched out flat upon his belly. Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him, smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands. He is fire made flesh, she thought, and so am I.

Daenerys Targaryen vaulted onto the dragon's back, seized the spear, and ripped it out. The point was half-melted, the iron red-hot, glowing. She flung it aside. Drogon twisted under her, his muscles rippling as he gathered his strength. The air was thick with sand. Dany could not see, she could not breathe, she could not think. The black wings cracked like thunder, and suddenly the scarlet sands were falling away beneath her.

Dizzy, Dany closed her eyes. When she opened them again, she glimpsed the Meereenese beneath her through a haze of tears and dust, pouring up the steps and out into the streets.

The lash was still in her hand. She flicked it against Drogon's neck and cried, "Higher!" Her other hand clutched at his scales, her fingers scrabbling for purchase. Drogon's wide black wings beat the air. Dany could feel the heat of him between her thighs. Her heart felt as if it were about to burst. Yes, she thought, yes, now, now, do it, do it, take me, take me, FLY!

A long pasage but there are a few things worth highlighting:

1) Drogon's wounds and his blood are repeatedly referred to as smoking, not too surprising as he is fire made flesh and though it's magic the heat and the fire has to come from somewhere and have some physiological impact

2) Dany has absolutley no conviction that she is fireproof and repeatedly references this and the dangers she faces from his fire: "if I run from him he will burn me", "his breath was hot enough to blister skin"

3) Only once does Drogon actually breathe fire at her and though Dany believes she ducks this, "he spat black fire down at her. Dany darted underneath the flames", we know from later chapters from Barristan and her pov that he in fact burned her hair

4) She rips the spear out of him, noting that the tip is half-melted, "The point was half-melted, the iron red-hot, glowing", so it's little wonder she burns her hands.  Just like she does not notice her hair is on fire with the adrenaline flowing and in the heat of the moment (sorry, bad pun) she does not notice this either

5) Drogon has several wounds that are bleeding, particularly the one on the back of his neck from the spear, "Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him, smoking" and Dany grabs hold as he takes off "Her other hand clutched at his scales, her fingers scrabbling for purchase" so again it's understandable that she burns her hands.

6) Unlike the scene with MMD where Dany believes the maegi has shown her the way (though her understanding is more instinctive than fully thought out and anunciated) and she has absolutely no fear that she will be burned and tells Jorah as much she has no such confidence in the pit, firmly believing Drogon can and will burn her.  When he spits black fire at her she does not stand there confident of her immunity but ducks and fight for her life.

In summary, the heat of his breath blisters her skin, his smoking hot blood burns her hands and the fire he breathes burns only her hair because she ducks the killing breath and manages to get away with a severe hair cut.

As to why GRRM has her burned at all, that seems an artistic and writing decision to make the scene dramatic and compelling.  If she's fireproof then it's fairly boring, if she's totally unscathed then it's both fairly boring and unrealistic too.

As to what GRRM wrote and what he said in his interviews not adding up, sure they do.  You just have to stop trying to apply scientific reasoning as to the properties of dragonfire and resistance to it to a story.  No such science actually exists and the rules are what the writer wants them to be.  Dany walked full in in to  funeral pyre and survived due to magic, she survived an encounter with a half wild and mad as hell dragon by using her wits and her courage.  GRRM has written plenty about Targs getting burned - Summerhall, Viserys and his molten crown of gold - so we don't need to make Dany into a Marvel Comic Book Heroine "Fireproof Girl" here.

[kissdbyfire]

 

Quote

Daznak's Pit is the proof that it happened again.  No Mirri Maz Duur to credit this time around.  So we have to assume MMD had nothing to do with it during Drogo's cremation.  It may have to do with the blood of the dragon.  There is no blood flow to the hair and so it was not protected by the blood of the dragon. 

No, it isn't, and it's not for lack of deaths & blood. Drogo's funeral pyre and the birth of the dragons was, as Martin puts it,  'unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle'. 

What happened in the pit was different. Dany doesn't walk into a gigantic bonfire, and when Drogon breathes fire in her direction, she ducks under the flames.

ADwD, Daenerys IX

“Dany hit him. “No,” she screamed, swinging the lash with all the strength that she had in her. The dragon jerked his head back. “No,” she screamed again. “NO!” The barbs raked along his snout. Drogon rose, his wings covering her in shadow. Dany swung the lash at his scaled belly, back and forth until her arm began to ache. His long serpentine neck bent like an archer’s bow. With a hisssssss, he spat black fire down at her. Dany darted underneath the flames, swinging the whip and shouting, “No, no, no. Get DOWN!” His answering roar was full of fear and fury, full of pain. His wings beat once, twice …”

And a bit later on we learn that her hands were burnt and are now healing.

ADwD, Daenerys X

“The hill was a stony island in a sea of green.
It took Dany half the morning to climb down. By the time she reached the bottom she was winded. Her muscles ached, and she felt as if she had the beginnings of a fever. The rocks had scraped her hands raw. They are better than they were, though, she decided as she picked at a broken blister. Her skin was pink and tender, and a pale milky fluid was leaking from her cracked palms, but her burns were healing.”

'd by @the trees have eyes

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

19 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

No, it isn't, and it's not for lack of deaths & blood. Drogo's funeral pyre and the birth of the dragons was, as Martin puts it,  'unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle'. 

And George is known to say, "I reserve the right to change my mind."

If a miracle can happen once it can happen twice.  Somebody's hair is not going to burn right down to the scalp and the person herself not suffer burns to the upper body area unless that person has fire resistance. 

[kissdbyfire]

10 minutes ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

And George is known to say, "I reserve the right to change my mind."

If a miracle can happen once it can happen twice.  Somebody's hair is not going to burn right down to the scalp and the person herself not suffer burns to the upper body area unless that person has fire resistance. 

Sure, miracles do happen all the time. Not.

Regardless, just read the scene: Drogon spits fire at Dany, and she ducks under the flames. And again, she burned her hands. That's not fire resistance. Like, not at all. 

 

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

Sure, miracles do happen all the time. Not.

Regardless, just read the scene: Drogon spits fire at Dany, and she ducks under the flames. And again, she burned her hands. That's not fire resistance. Like, not at all. 

 

Uh-huh, yeah.  You're trying to sell a used Yugo diesel for the price of a new BMW 750 with your argument.  Someone's hair burned down to the scalp and she didn't have severe burns on the scalp.  That's a miracle or it's fire resistance. 

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

Uh-huh, yeah.  You're trying to sell a used Yugo diesel for the price of a new BMW 750 with your argument.  Someone's hair burned down to the scalp and she didn't have severe burns on the scalp.  That's a miracle or it's fire resistance. 

It seems to me you are struggling w/ the concept of someone ducking under something. 

[John Suburbs]

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 8:03 PM, Aetta said:

Whew, I sure am glad the author didn't explicitly tell us that Dany is not fireproof and that it was a one time thing.

No, what he said was "there is no Targaryen immunity to fire." Now, to be fair, this was in response to a direct question as to whether Dany is immune to fire. But consider this:

Dany is also part-Martell, and the Martells have Rhoynish blood directly from Nymeria herself. So, ask yourself: if anyone was to infuse their blood with some kind of fire-resistance magic, would it be the ones that control dragons or the ones fighting dragons? The Valyrians and the Rhoynar fought for more than two centuries before the Rhoynar were defeated. The Rhoynar were also steeped in water magic.

So if, and it's still a big if, Dany does have any kind of anti-fire capability, it's quite likely it comes from her Dornish heritage, not Targaryen.

[John Suburbs]

1 hour ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

And George is known to say, "I reserve the right to change my mind."

If a miracle can happen once it can happen twice.  Somebody's hair is not going to burn right down to the scalp and the person herself not suffer burns to the upper body area unless that person has fire resistance. 

I'm trying to imagine someone getting close enough to a blast furnace that it singes off their hair, but they walk away with not even a sunburn.

[Megorova]

27 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It seems to me you are struggling w/ the concept of someone ducking under something. 

She ducked, rolled, and shoved her head in sand, like ostrich that's why her hair is gone, but there's no burns on her scalp.

[AlaskanSandman]

On 2/24/2018 at 5:03 PM, Megorova said:

No I'm implying that she won't die, just because she breathed in some smoke, or even lots of smoke. It's more like, she sort of has immunity against gas / smoke / carbon dioxide poisoning.

She's an alien Just kidding.

Though she has immunity to all diseases, which is unusual.

Their blood is also fire. Dragons are fire made flesh. So probably inside of them they are made of fire and bones (they are hard as diamonds).

This thing about their blood being fire, is something like aliens in Ridley Scott's movie with Sigourney Weaver, their blood is acid. So dragon's blood is also something like that - there are fire inside their bodies, but it doesn't burn them, same as acid-blood of those aliens in the movie, doesn't burn them from inside of them, though when their blood is spilled, then it does burn even them.

This is quote about Dany's immunity, ADWD:

So could be that Targaryens are some sort of hybrids, or they are genetically modified, and because of this modifications they don't burn and can withstand smoke and hight temperatures. Though in their world it's called magic. And not all Targaryens had those fireproof properties. For example Viserys, Aerion Brightflame, Aegon II.

Maybe haha that was my best argument though probably haha