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Tommen's fate


AmberEmpress

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The old woman was not done with her, however. "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Maggy was right on about marrying Robert and having Jaime's children, and she was right about Joffrey becoming king and dying, and Tommen becoming king, so we should expect that Tommen will die, and that Myrcella will be crowned and die before Cersei is killed by the valonqar.

"What is a valonqar? Some monster?" The golden girl did not like that foretelling. "You'e a liar and a warty frog and a smelly old savage, and I don't believe a word of what you say. Come away, Melara. She is not worth hearing."

"I get three questions too," her friend insisted. And when Cersei tugged upon her arm, she wriggled free and turned back to the crone. "Will I marry Jaime?" she blurted out.

You stupid girl, the queen thought, angry even now. Jaime does not even know you are alive. Back then her brother lived only for swords and dogs and horses and for her, his twin.

"Not Jaime, nor any other man," said Maggy. "Worms will have your maidenhead. Your death is here tonight, little one. Can you smell her breath? She is very close."

...

The valonqar shall wrap his hands about your throat, the queen heard, but the voice did not belong to the old woman. The hands emerged from the mists of her dream and coiled around her neck; thick hands, and strong. Above them floated his face, leering down at her with his mismatched eyes. No, the queen tried to cry out, but the dwarf's fingers dug deep into her neck, choking off her protests. She kicked and screamed to no avail. Before long she was making the same sound her son had made, the terrible thin sucking sound that marked Joff's last breath on earth.

We have two things going on here, the identity of the valonqar, and Melara's death. We find out later that Melara fell down a well, and that Cersei heard her screams. And while Cersei did have a future, Maggy said one of them would not, leaving only Melara with no future. Obviously, Melara was not going to last long since worms--grave worms--would be crawling through her before she reached puberty, but note that Melara's death was there that night--it was described as feminine, and it was very close. It would seem reasonable to assume then that Cersei killed her before sunrise. Cersei was angry and jealous when she heard Melara ask if she would marry Jaime.

Cersei clearly believes that Tyrion is the valonqar, the little brother. But we learn that Jaime followed Cersei out of the womb, so he's her little brother too. The reader really isn't led to this like the reader is led to Daenerys in the case of the more beautiful "queen" and the case of the Prince that was promised, so I think the reader should conclude the valonqar is Jaime.

"Three questions may you ask," the crone said, once she'd had her drink. "You will not like my answers. Ask, or begone with you."

Go, the dreaming queen thought, hold your tongue, and flee. But the girl did not have sense enough to be afraid.

"When will I wed the prince?" she asked.

"Never. You will wed the king."

Beneath her golden curls, the girl's face wrinkled up in puzzlement. For years after, she took those words to mean that she would not marry Rhaegar until after his father Aerys had died. "I will be queen, though?" asked the younger her.

"Aye." Malice gleamed in Maggy's yellow eyes. "Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

Anger flashed across the child's face. "If she tries I will have my brother kill her." Even then she would not stop, willful child as she was. She still had one more question due her, one more glimpse into her life to come. "Will the king and I have children?" she asked.

"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."

That made no sense to Cersei. Her thumb was throbbing where she'd cut it, and her blood was dripping on the carpet. How could that be? she wanted to ask, but she was done with her questions.

So, we have two things here as well, the more beautiful "queen," and confirmation that Maggy knew what the heck she was talking about with Cersei later marrying Robert but having Jaime's children. I don't believe the more beautiful "queen" needs to be a queen. She just needs to be another, younger and more beautiful. Cersei believes its Margaery, while the reader is led to believe it's Daenerys, similar to Melisandre's belief that Stannis is the prince that was promised, while the reader is led to believe it's Daenerys. However, as some have concluded, the prince that was promised is Jon. (There can be only one!) So, the astute reader should be looking for someone other than Margaery or Daenerys. It's Brienne

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If he doesn't die as a result of Cersei's foolishness with the Faith Militant then my money would be on (f)Aegon's invasion finishing him off or Nymeria having him assassinated. Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if he simply died suddenly of illness.

He's such a sweet little kid that any death will be sad.

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There's a few conspicuous items but nothing sticks out that I can see to lock it in. There being Myrcella too makes it hard, as either her or Tommen could fit a situation the same.

The most obvious plot point set to come to a head possibly regarding Tommen is JC vs Varys. JC believes he needs to be ruthless like Tywin who of course killed the children in the succession to the previous dynasty. He thinks outright that he intends to end the usurper's line.

Tywin having killed the children had a profound impact on Varys and he finds Tommen sweet.

JC will want Tommen killed, Varys will not. JC may succeed and that may splinter Aegon's team. But then Varys may succeed in protecting Tommen, and that splinters Aegon's team.

Another possibility is that Tommen follows the path of the princes in the tower. Tyrion is GRRM's Richard III and when Tyrion comes into the throne should Tommen or Myrcella still be alive they will be in the position of the princes in the tower. If that is to be Tommen's situation, I think the most likely outcome is that Tommen dies but in mysterious circumstances and who is responsible is left ambiguous.

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Snip ~

It's Brienne

:rolleyes:

"until there comes another, younger and more beautiful"

Brienne wasn't beautiful, even prior half of her face was bitten off. What has to happen to Cersei's face, for this post-bite-Brinne, to be more beautiful than her?

Also Cersei stopped being Queen, when Margaery married with Joffrey. Then Margaery's grandmother poisoned Joffrey, taking from Cersei her first son. Then Margaery married with Tommen, and also took him away from Cersei. While Brienne so far only lured Jaime away, probably into a trap, or maybe to go with him to The Vale, to get Sansa from there, for both of them (Brienne and Jaime) to fulfill their promise to Catelyn. 

Thus - 1. Brienne is not a Queen. 2. She isn't more beautiful than Cersei. 3. She didn't took Cersei's children, nor her crown, all of this was done by Margaery.

Also it seems unlikely that the Queen from the prophecy is Dany. Because by the time when Dany will come to Westeros, most likely, Cersei will be already either dead, or everything will be already taken from her by that other Queen.

Now Cersei is dealing with Margaery, and with the Faith of the Seven. Then fAegon will arrive to King's Landing from Stormlands, to war against Lannisters. So by the time Dany will also come there, most likely Cersei will be already finished. 

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10 minutes ago, Megorova said:

:rolleyes:

"until there comes another, younger and more beautiful"

Brienne wasn't beautiful, even prior half of her face was bitten off. What has to happen to Cersei's face, for this post-bite-Brinne, to be more beautiful than her?

Also Cersei stopped being Queen, when Margaery married with Joffrey. Then Margaery's grandmother poisoned Joffrey, taking from Cersei her first son. Then Margaery married with Tommen, and also took him away from Cersei. While Brienne so far only lured Jaime away, probably into a trap, or maybe to go with him to The Vale, to get Sansa from there, for both of them (Brienne and Jaime) to fulfill their promise to Catelyn. 

Thus - 1. Brienne is not a Queen. 2. She isn't more beautiful than Cersei. 3. She didn't took Cersei's children, nor her crown, all of this was done by Margaery.

Also it seems unlikely that the Queen from the prophecy is Dany. Because by the time when Dany will come to Westeros, most likely, Cersei will be already either dead, or everything will be already taken from her by that other Queen.

Now Cersei is dealing with Margaery, and with the Faith of the Seven. Then fAegon will arrive to King's Landing from Stormlands, to war against Lannisters. So by the time Dany will also come there, most likely Cersei will be already finished. 

Follow the link, if you like. I don't want to hijack this thread. 

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1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

lady Nym or Tyene will kill him imo. or he commit suicide

How do you imagine an 9-year old is gonna summit suicide? Did eating beets for the third time this week snap something in the boy and he just couldn't take it anymore? 

Anyway, I don't see a really visually violent death for him, even Martin has his limits. A poison could work but seems too similar to Joffrey's death and he has his personal fat kingsguard foodtester (I don't know the exact word) so it would be harder. With winter, expected famine, war ect. the outbreak of an epidemic disease in westeros also seems likely, it could take Tommen.

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49 minutes ago, Deepbollywood Motte said:

How do you imagine an 9-year old is gonna summit suicide? Did eating beets for the third time this week snap something in the boy and he just couldn't take it anymore? 

Well, if he is captured by some asshole who like to brutally torture little boys worse than Theon was tortured, he will probably thinks about commiting suicide.

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9 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

when margaery is executed by the faith

Interesting. I think she will survive her trial but be then murdered by (or on the orders of) Cersei as part of her further descent into madness.

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The Queen of Thorns. In the conservatory. With the revolver.

I expect sweetsleep, as revenge for Margaery's death. But not before making sure Cersei knows it was her who killed both Tommen and Joffrey. Then Olenna will take sweetsleep herself, thus removing any power anyone has to punish her. 

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21 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The Queen of Thorns. In the conservatory. With the revolver.

I expect sweetsleep, as revenge for Margaery's death. But not before making sure Cersei knows it was her who killed both Tommen and Joffrey. Then Olenna will take sweetsleep herself, thus removing any power anyone has to punish her. 

:)

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