US Politics: Let's Arm All the Teachers! 30 Pieces of Silver to Shoot a Student!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, Fez said:

Gifts seem easy to regulate (although not easy to enforce). Simply make it illegal to gift someone a firearm under the minimum legal age of purchase, same as with alcohol. Alcohol has some exemptions surrounding parents, just don't allow those with guns. ETA: There's plenty of evidence that just the existence of laws, even those difficult/impossible to enforce, still lead to reductions in the behavior they are trying to curb.

As for inheritance, one solution could be that to inherit a firearm, the weapon needs to be specifically declared in the deceased's will, along with provisions for a trust to hold the firearm until the inheritor comes of age. The trust could be as simple as an account and a key with a firing range or other business comfortable with storing a gun; they get paid a one-time fee of $300 (or whatever) to store the gun as long as necessary.

I'm sure there's better ideas too. But I don't think there are any complicated policy problems surrounding successfully addressing firearms, it's entirely political/constitutional problems.

I think a parent should be able to gift their kid something like a hunting rifle or shotgun, but it should have to always be in the parent's possession or under their supervision. 

That said, I agree with you for the most part, but I am highly skeptical that there's any way to enforce these new regulations until the kid goes and does something dumb with the gun and law enforcement is forced to take action. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Guns in schools peoples!:

Quote

An Idaho State University instructor was wounded in the foot after a concealed handgun in the person's pocket discharged during a chemistry lab session with students in the room, school officials said.

Arriving Pocatello police officers found the instructor on Tuesday in the Physical Science Complex with a non-life threatening injury.

The person was treated and released at Portneuf Medical Center, police Lt. Paul Manning said. No other injuries were reported.

Police said the person had the proper permits to carry a concealed weapon on campus.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-state-university-teacher-accidentally-shoots-self-in-class/

I'm sure there are more stories like this if would takes the time to sift through the Googles. 

[Fragile Bird]

Hey! I changed the thread title!

I've been watching clips of Trump explaining he doesn't want incompetent teachers to have guns, he wants retired military people to have guns...and pay them a small bonus! That would be much cheaper than having police in every school!

Thirty pieces of silver to shoot a student seems appropriate as we slowly approach Good Friday...

 

Oh, and that's something no one has mentioned. Trump said police officers don't care about the students, they don't know the students. The teachers love their students, so they'll do a better job protecting them! For a small bonus!

Imagine, a small bonus to be willing to kill one of your students!

[Martell Spy]

23 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Hey! I changed the thread title!

I've been watching clips of Trump explaining he doesn't want incompetent teachers to have guns, he wants retired military people to have guns...and pay them a small bonus! That would be much cheaper than having police in every school!

Thirty pieces of silver to shoot a student seems appropriate as we slowly approach Good Friday...

 

Oh, and that's something no one has mentioned. Trump said police officers don't care about the students, they don't know the students. The teachers love their students, so they'll do a better job protecting them! For a small bonus!

Imagine, a small bonus to be willing to kill one of your students!

The love makes them better killers.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

There are two types of people in this world: those who know how to convert PDFs into Word documents and those who are indicted for money laundering. Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort is the second kind of person.

Manafort Left an Incriminating Paper Trail Because He Couldn’t Figure Out How to Convert PDFs to Word Files

https://slate.com/technology/2018/02/paul-manafort-couldnt-convert-pdfs-to-word-documents.html?via=article_recirc_engaged

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Manafort Left an Incriminating Paper Trail Because He Couldn’t Figure Out How to Convert PDFs to Word Files

Scrolling down is hard on all of us.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Just saw this when I look at YouTube and found it quite entertaining and gave a little levity.

Though it is something when it is just one year and the original was over four decades.

[Bonnot OG]

These nazi fucks are dangerous. They've killed quite a few people recently.

Propublica obtained chat logs of Atomwaffen, a neo nazi group. When one of their members was charged with killing a gay Jewish college student last month,they cheered the death. Their only concern was if the group’s cover was blown.

https://www.propublica.org/article/atomwaffen-division-inside-white-hate-group?utm_campaign=sprout&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1519362811

[Yukle]

I had a student ask me yesterday (in Australia, so this is hypothetical for us):

”If they made our law like America, and you got a gun, and there was some guy with a gun, and he was a student you taught, would you shoot him?”

”Nope.”

”Even if he was shooting the other students?”

I did think about my answer.

”I think most people are incapable of shooting anyone, especially someone you know.”

We had a class discussion for a short while as it was an interesting thought experiment. I had one student say something interesting:

”I reckon if there was a guy and he killed my family and he was there and then the police said, ‘okay, we’ll shoot him,’ I’d go, ‘good.’ But if they were then like, ‘Okay, here you go,’ and gave me the gun and I had to do it, and I could see his face and he was just sitting there, I don’t think I could. I don’t reckon any of us could. Not when you can see them.”

We didn’t really have a particular conclusion as a class, and not all agreed with him, but it was nonetheless pretty consistent in the class that we agreed that the average, normal, everyday person is incapable of shooting someone.

I don’t really know if that is true, or what it would mean for guns in the USA, though, suffice to say that if someone argues most gun owners would never kill anyone that it is probably true. But I don’t think that alone justifies having a gun in the first place.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Yukle said:

I don’t really know if that is true, or what it would mean for guns in the USA, though, suffice to say that if someone argues most gun owners would never kill anyone that it is probably true. But I don’t think that alone justifies having a gun in the first place.

The obvious solution is to make sure teachers are dehumanized from their students.  Make sure they're separated from the kids' education - because who cares about that anyway - so as to make shooting somebody banal.  Arendt out!

[Jace, Extat]

23 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

The obvious solution is to make sure teachers are dehumanized from their students.  Make sure they're separated from the kids' education - because who cares about that anyway - so as to make shooting somebody banal.  Arendt out!

Now that I think about it, there's no amendment about school. Guns are a right, education is a privilege. If you want an education your town can form a well regulated militia and educate you about your guns.

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Now that I think about it, there's no amendment about school. Guns are a right, education is a privilege. If you want an education your town can form a well regulated militia and educate you about your guns.

Hell, there's no amendments about streets, libraries, fire departments, nuclear waste, growing food, providing water.  Buncha privileges that should be contingent on more guns.

[DMC]

BTW, to be thorough..Ok, fine, because I'm bored:

@Kalbear

Quote

I'm actually not. I'm talking about MMPR. Draw the districts however you choose. Elect them as normal. Then figure out the total percentages for each party, and pick an equal amount of representatives from party lists (of their choosing) such that it rebalances the percentages to be as close to what the 'real' percentage would have been. 

There we go.  Let's bring something even more academic and boring to the table of reapportionment.  Because that's how politics works - the voters love getting confused about how they'll vote.  Way to be - in fact, if we're just talking for funsies let's apportion representatives by how fast they can beat the original Sonic.  Because that's pretty important to me, or at least it was when I refound that cartridge and system in college.  I was the coolest guy in my dorm for, like, six weeks.  Next...

ETA:  My saltiness here is in part because you don't really know what MMP entails.  What you describe is essentially PR in 50 multi-member districts, which, fine.  It's wholly unrealistic, but whatever.  Except that's not MMP.  MMP requires a district vote and a party vote.  That means, if you're talking about just the House, that's two different ways you'd be electing members.  If you mean both chambers, than "MMP" really is just a fancy way of saying you want the Senate vote as first-past-the-post and the House to vote PR. 

Anyway, not only is it especially unrealistic, it does not impress me at all that you have a tenuous grasp on such rules.  And, it's particularly fun to ridicule when someone doesn't even really understand what he's advocating for.

@Seli

Quote

Your wording is a bit strange. But The Netherlands, yes our head of government leads a coalition that has a majority in parliament. But none of the government members keep their seats in parliament (which is easier with the party-system that the country runs on in practice).

The wording was the difference between head of state and head of government.  The Netherlands' head of state is, still, a King.  That's different than what I was saying, and that was the entire point.

[Yukle]

2 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Now that I think about it, there's no amendment about school. Guns are a right, education is a privilege. If you want an education your town can form a well regulated militia and educate you about your guns.

 

2 hours ago, dmc515 said:

Hell, there's no amendments about streets, libraries, fire departments, nuclear waste, growing food, providing water.  Buncha privileges that should be contingent on more guns.

As I have heard pointed out to me, though, there ARE such rights!

The ninth amendment clearly states that any rights not explicitly stated are nonetheless protected.

This is worth mentioning as it means you can repeal the second and still have constitutional protection to bear arms, per the ninth rather than the second.

In other words, making a massive campaign to repeal (or amend) the second amendment wouldn’t necessarily revoke gun ownership anyway. So there’s a way to open the discussion: “Let’s clarify what the second means, or just ditch it and use the ninth to protect gun ownership.”

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Yukle said:

The ninth amendment clearly states that any rights not explicitly stated are nonetheless protected.

Yeah the ninth amendment is pretty cool.  It's helped in some, or at least a few very important, cases.  Don't think it's gonna in this case.

[Yukle]

58 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Yeah the ninth amendment is pretty cool.  It's helped in some, or at least a few very important, cases.  Don't think it's gonna in this case.

Yeah, probably not. Hypothetically, if the second was repealed it could be logically argued that its abolition is tantamount to denying it exists in any case.

Still, it was really forward thinking of the authors of the Bill of Rights to have thought to point out that the list is not the entirety of all rights.

I read a great point in the Washington Post: if the second amendment contravenes the idea that inalienable rights include, “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” then which wins? I suppose the latter isn’t codified, but it was a beautiful moment in the recognition of human rights. Maybe a court could reasonably argue that the Declaration or Independence forms a legal bedrock for all American law that succeeded it.

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, Yukle said:

Still, it was really forward thinking of the authors of the Bill of Rights to have thought to point out that the list is not the entirety of all rights.

That was Madison insisting.

9 minutes ago, Yukle said:

if the second amendment contravenes the idea that inalienable rights include, “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” then which wins? I suppose the latter isn’t codified, but it was a beautiful moment in the recognition of human rights. Maybe a court could reasonably argue that the Declaration or Independence forms a legal bedrock for all American law that succeeded it.

Nah, the Declaration was Jefferson's (fairly overly-detailed) list.  If it was a legal bedrock, then, well, we could all rebel at any time justified by almost any reason.  Sounds pretty cool, I'll grant you.

[Yukle]

Just now, dmc515 said:

That was Madison insisting.

Nah, the Declaration was Jefferson's (fairly overly-detailed) list.  If it was a legal bedrock, then, well, we could all rebel at any time justified by almost almost any reason.  Sounds pretty cool, I'll grant you.

There has never been a better time to overthrow the tyrant leading the USA.

Remember when the NPR was tweeting the Declaration line by line and all of these Trump voters had a huge sook as they thought it was a pointed comment about their dear leader, and his abhorrent actions while in power?

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Yukle said:

There has never been a better time to overthrow the tyrant leading the USA.

Historically, I'm not sure that's true.  Personally, it definitely is.  Just not sure what I can do to help!

[DanteGabriel]

6 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Now that I think about it, there's no amendment about school. Guns are a right, education is a privilege. If you want an education your town can form a well regulated militia and educate you about your guns.

Public education is just another way damn New England Yankees have forced their high fallutin' ways on the god-fearing, slavelording plutocrats of the South. Republican education and socioeconomic policy is all about restoring the proper social balances so none of the poors have thoughts about rising above their station again.