US Politics: Let's Arm All the Teachers! 30 Pieces of Silver to Shoot a Student!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Shryke said:

Here's the thing though: rolling means crossing Putin and the Russians. That is not generally considered a health way to try and live a long life.

Also, Manafort is a moron.

I'm pretty sure he'll spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder, be it in prison or as a free man, how ever this shakes out. 

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It doesn't appear he had much of a choice. The picture that seems to be emerging is that he was scalp deep in debt and then it was basically suggested that he go work for Trump and not for money.

There does seem to be a lot of evidence to suggest this is correct. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Week said:

He believes that his opinion and voice is the only one that matters -- that egocentrism is embodied by his twitter use and refusal to staff the State Department. 

As I've repeatedly said, Trump is the worst kind of idiot, the kind that thinks he is a genius.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

42 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

It's naive to believe that what we already know about Trump is enough to bring him down, when much of your allegations were already known before Trump was elected.  .

To be fair, a quarter of what Trump's done in the non-Russia section of his scandals would have been enough to bring down any other politician. His ability to get away with it is mind numbing. 

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Mueller needs to find the smoking gun, and I hope he does, or else we could have 8 years of Trump

I find it highly unlikely that Trump will be reelected in 2020, assuming there are free and fair elections.

(Big assumption at this point)

35 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Just based on what we already know, this is the second biggest presidential scandal since WW2.

You think it's already bypassed Iran Contra? It's still mind blowing that it didn't take Reagan down. 

[Fragile Bird]

Those four countries I mentioned above are Israel (!), Mexico, China and the United Arab Emirates.

[Sivin]

16 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

As I've repeatedly said, Trump is the worst kind of idiot, the kind that thinks he is a genius.

No, that's Kelly. He's an idiot who plays like a genius. 

I have no doubt that Republicans would blanch at outright rigging the 2020's unless mammoth changes happen at the top, but I think Kelly is deluding himself into believing he's playing 3D chess by letting the Russians continue to work on his behalf on the assumption that he can outmaneuver them. 

It's just intellectually-challenged enough to have occurred to him and he's such a coward that I've little hesitation in believing this or a similar dance is playing out. 

He's a fool. The electorate is not an asset to be deployed, it is a charge to be protected at any and all costs. 

2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Those four countries I mentioned above are Israel (!), Mexico, China and the United Arab Emirates.

Why the "!" after Israel? They're a known sneaky backstabbing state in the UN and they already got him to put the US Embassy in Jerusalem for nothing.

Although I'm sure a briefcase of cash was left in the lobby of a Trump hotel, of course. 

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

 Also, Delta is certainly within its rights to politically support whomever it wants.  Cagle might want to give that a bit more thought...

There's a downside to declaring that corporations are people too. One day they just might turn on you  

 

[S John]

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

I find it highly unlikely that Trump will be reelected in 2020, assuming there are free and fair elections.

Depends on who runs against him.  And, as I believe has been discussed in this thread before, I could see one of the more sane conservatives (Kasich? Romney?) pulling a Ross Perot on him... knowing they won't win but also knowing that Trump is bad for the country and it'll probably hurt him more than the Democrat.  If the Dems vote in lockstep and you can split some of the more traditional conservatives between Trump and Perot 2.0, then I think that is a pretty good scenario for taking him down.  But the Dems still need to put up a good candidate or that could backfire if enough moderate Dem's defect to a Kasich type.  Ultimately, I don't think it'll be the slam dunk election that it probably should be.  

[Fragile Bird]

6 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

Why the "!" after Israel? They're a known sneaky backstabbing state in the UN and they already got him to put the US Embassy in Jerusalem for nothing.

Although I'm sure a briefcase of cash was left in the lobby of a Trump hotel, of course. 

I know the Israeli government has been famous for ruthlessly looking after itself, but Jared Kushner is Jewish. Meaningless, yes, but it still ....surprises is the wrong word...more like, leaves me breathless.

[Paladin of Ice]

The Supreme Court ruled that immigrants, even asylum seekers and those with permanent legal residence, do not have the right to periodic bond hearings if they are held on charges. So immigrants have no rights against indefinite detention, and the Sixth Amendment (which notably does not have the word citizen in it, only "the accused" isn't worth the paper it's printed on. (Note: Since I'm not a lawyer, I'm sure one will be along shortly to tell me how due to some technicality I'm wrong.)

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The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that immigrants, even those with permanent legal status and asylum seekers, do not have the right to periodic bond hearings.

It's a profound loss for those immigrants appealing what are sometimes indefinite detentions by the government. Many are held for long periods of time — on average, 13 months — after being picked up for things as minor as joyriding. Some are held even longer.

The case, Jennings v. Rodriguez, has implications for legal permanent residents whom the government wants to deport because they committed crimes and asylum seekers who are awaiting a court date after turning themselves in at the border. Immigrant advocates contend that many of these immigrants have a right to be free on bail until their case is heard.

But the court wrote in its 5-3 opinion Tuesday, "Immigration officials are authorized to detain certain aliens in the course of immigration proceedings while they determine whether those aliens may be lawfully present in the country."

The majority opinion was penned by Justice Samuel Alito and joined by the court's conservatives. (Justice Elena Kagan did not participate. She recused herself, stemming from work she had done as President Barack Obama's solicitor general.)

The decision reversed a Ninth Circuit ruling, and the court remanded it for the Ninth to reconsider the case. So this is not the last word and could come back to the high court.

Justice Stephen G. Breyer read from his dissent, a rare move for the court that indicates just how passionately he disagrees with the majority opinion.

"We need only recall the words of the Declaration of Independence," Breyer said, "in particular its insistence that all men and women have 'certain unalienable Rights,' and that among them is the right to 'Liberty.'"

He continued, calling the ruling "legal fiction."

"Whatever the fiction, would the Constitution leave the Government free to starve, beat, or lash those held within our boundaries?" Breyer argued. "If not, then, whatever the fiction, how can the Constitution authorize the Government to imprison arbitrarily those who, whatever we might pretend, are in reality right here in the United States?"

Breyer added, "No one can claim, nor since the time of slavery has anyone to my knowledge successfully claimed, that persons held within the United States are totally without constitutional protection."

The lead plaintiff in the case is a legal permanent resident, Alejandro Rodriguez, who came to the U.S. as a child and worked as a dental assistant. As a teenager, he was convicted for joyriding, and at 24, he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor possession of a controlled substance.

Rodriguez was detained for three years without the right to appear before a judge to ask for bond.
 

Text of the 6th Amendment:

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In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Man, I hate to see what will happen when this country votes for an true authoritarian for president as opposed to a petty, narcissistic racist whose ego can't deal with people criticizing him. The institutions supposed to stand up to tyranny are a joke and would roll over in favor of a tyrant president in a heart beat, as long as he's from the right side. If such a person gets into office, liberties and rights will be stripped away and people will be thrown into camps in no time.

[Sivin]

7 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I know the Israeli government has been famous for ruthlessly looking after itself, but Jared Kushner is Jewish. Meaningless, yes, but it still ....surprises is the wrong word...more like, leaves me breathless.

Unlike Trump and his family, politics isn't a joke. 

[Paladin of Ice]

13 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

Why the "!" after Israel? They're a known sneaky backstabbing state in the UN and they already got him to put the US Embassy in Jerusalem for nothing.

Although I'm sure a briefcase of cash was left in the lobby of a Trump hotel, of course. 

 

4 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I know the Israeli government has been famous for ruthlessly looking after itself, but Jared Kushner is Jewish. Meaningless, yes, but it still ....surprises is the wrong word...more like, leaves me breathless.

Lets not forget the case of Jonathan Pollard, an American Jew who committed massive acts of espionage on behalf of Israel, and whom Israel spent 30 years trying to free afterwards, even as they tried to deny the depth of their part in things. This is part of Israel's M.O.

[Sivin]

10 minutes ago, Paladin of Ice said:

 

Lets not forget the case of Jonathan Pollard, an American Jew who committed massive acts of espionage on behalf of Israel, and whom Israel spent 30 years trying to free afterwards, even as they tried to deny the depth of their part in things. This is part of Israel's M.O.

Yeah, as far as blatant and hideous examples of Imperialistic racism (and antisemitism) go, Israel is our ally and deserves our support. 

That being said, they are not a good ally. 

[Ormond]

57 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

As I've repeatedly said, Trump is the worst kind of idiot, the kind that thinks he is a genius.

Well, unfortunately that particular characteristic of his is much more common than many of his other faults:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/head-in-the-cloud/201701/the-dunning-kruger-president

[Martell Spy]

22 minutes ago, Paladin of Ice said:

The Supreme Court ruled that immigrants, even asylum seekers and those with permanent legal residence, do not have the right to periodic bond hearings if they are held on charges. So immigrants have no rights against indefinite detention, and the Sixth Amendment (which notably does not have the word citizen in it, only "the accused" isn't worth the paper it's printed on. (Note: Since I'm not a lawyer, I'm sure one will be along shortly to tell me how due to some technicality I'm wrong.)

Text of the 6th Amendment:

Man, I hate to see what will happen when this country votes for an true authoritarian for president as opposed to a petty, narcissistic racist whose ego can't deal with people criticizing him. The institutions supposed to stand up to tyranny are a joke and would roll over in favor of a tyrant president in a heart beat, as long as he's from the right side. If such a person gets into office, liberties and rights will be stripped away and people will be thrown into camps in no time.

Say hello to Tom Cotton 2024, Revenge of the Slavelords.

[Martell Spy]

Perhaps Manafort did something worse than we know and that is why he won't cave.

[Sivin]

4 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Say hello to Tom Cotton 2024, Revenge of the Slavelords.

Joe Arpaio just won a Senate seat in Arizona.

Also, the Governor of said state just announced that they need federal funds to help hold the 19% of the population that has been declared of 'dubious' legality. 

[lokisnow]

1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

Your assertions are meaningless because the only way Trump gets removed early is if Mueller actually indicts Trump, or at the very least strongly condemns him in his report. 

Even worse, if nothing comes of Mueller's exhaustive investigation, Trump can credibly assert that he's innocent of all charges and it backs up his narrative that the investigation is just a witch hunt, that it's all fake news, blah blah blah.  It's naive to believe that what we already know about Trump is enough to bring him down, when much of your allegations were already known before Trump was elected.  Mueller needs to find the smoking gun, and I hope he does, or else we could have 8 years of Trump.

Nonsense.

we know for a fact that Hillary clinton is the most trustworthy politician in history to run, because every millisecond of her life for the past forty years has been held up to public scrutiny and with hundreds of millions spent in investigating her family, there’s never been anything, ever, wrong, found.

but forty years of non stop investigations took their toll and despite more evidence than any human in history that she’s trustworthy, millions of people decided she wasn’t trustworthy just because with only headlines and no details that history of nonstop investigations was enough to make them Mistrust her.

so the playbook is completely clear. If you want to erode support for trump and want to erode support for the future political careers of his dynastic heirs you have to be willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars maintaining continual investigations of every single aspect of his life and his history.

For example every single real estate deal in which trump lost money deserves an investigation of the scale and resources as whitewater. Scrutinize every line, litigate every semicolon. Create mistrust, unease and anger everywhere it is possible.

and with trump it is possible everywhere.

republicans have shown us what the game is. What the rules are. And how it is to be played. Game on.

constant vigilance and Eternal investigations.

[Darth Richard II]

Hey wait, I thought we were arming the students cause of bear attacks.

[Larry of the Lawn]

7 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Hey wait, I thought we were arming the students cause of bear attacks.

Wrong again.  We're giving them grizzly arms.

[Sivin]

5 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Hey wait, I thought we were arming the students cause of bear attacks.

No, we're loading for bear because of Democrats taking all the freedom out of schools