Robb and Edmure having wives before start of the books.

[Kandrax]

In this scenario, there is no chance for Robb to insult Freys in any way.

Walder would definitely asked for Arya to be  bethroted to Elmar, but now that Robb and Edmure are married men, would he asked for Bran and Brynden?

[StocksOfWinterfell]

why would Walder want a younger daughter of house stark? maybe he would be interested in Bran because he is next in line. i cant remember how far down Blackfish is in succession but i don't think that interests him much either. 

[Tygett Lannister]

High Septon would never approve of gay marriage.

[zandru]

38 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

High Septon would never approve of gay marriage.

That was my thought, too. And isn't Robb a little young?

[Faera]

55 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

High Septon would never approve of gay marriage.

Not to mention incest.

In all seriousness, though, Robb was only fifteen so I doubt he’d have been married. He could have been betrothed though and that would have been enough by the Faith’s standards.

As for what Walder would have demanded, its very possible he would have asked for Bran but there is his paralysis which leaves his baby-making abilities in question for ambitious Walder.

Really, Cat just walked right into Walder’s web when she agreed to all those marriages.

[Nowy Tends]

HomosexuaTully?

[Megorova]

4 hours ago, Faera said:

5 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

High Septon would never approve of gay marriage.

Not to mention incest.

It isn't considered as incest by their standarts. Princess Rhaenyra married with her uncle Daeron. Calla Blackfyre married with her uncle Bittersteel. Rohanna Webber was supposed to marry with her uncle, but instead married with Osgrey, and after him with Gerold Lannister. Thus marriages between uncles and nieces are allowed by the Faith of Seven. So if gay marriages were also accepted in Westeros, then there would be no reason, why can't marry uncle and nephew.

[Kandrax]

5 hours ago, zandru said:

That was my thought, too. And isn't Robb a little young?

Vyserys ii was father at age of 13.

[Angel Eyes]

18 hours ago, Megorova said:

It isn't considered as incest by their standarts. Princess Rhaenyra married with her uncle Daemon. 

That's because they're Targaryens, they get a free pass.

[Lollygag]

19 hours ago, Megorova said:

It isn't considered as incest by their standarts. Princess Rhaenyra married with her uncle Daeron. Calla Blackfyre married with her uncle Bittersteel. Rohanna Webber was supposed to marry with her uncle, but instead married with Osgrey, and after him with Gerold Lannister. Thus marriages between uncles and nieces are allowed by the Faith of Seven. So if gay marriages were also accepted in Westeros, then there would be no reason, why can't marry uncle and nephew.

Just to clarify. Just because it's happened a few times doesn't mean Westeros is whatevs about this type of marriage. The counsel debated releasing a rumor that Selyse was sleeping with her brothers or uncles as a fighting fire with fire form of retaliation for Stannis' letter accusing Cersei of incest. They ended up going with Patchface as it would likely unman Stannis more.

ACOK Tyrion III (Discussing retaliation for Stannis’ letters sent all over the kingdom accusing Cersei of incest)

"Your Grace, your brother has the right of this." Petyr Baelish steepled his fingers. "If we attempt to silence this talk, we only lend it credence. Better to treat it with contempt, like the pathetic lie it is. And meantime, fight fire with fire."

Cersei gave him a measuring look. "What sort of fire?"

"A tale of somewhat the same nature, perhaps. But more easily believed. Lord Stannis has spent most of his marriage apart from his wife. Not that I fault him, I'd do the same were I married to Lady Selyse. Nonetheless, if we put it about that her daughter is baseborn and Stannis a cuckold, well . . . the smallfolk are always eager to believe the worst of their lords, particularly those as stern, sour, and prickly proud as Stannis Baratheon."

"He has never been much loved, that's true." Cersei considered a moment. "So we pay him back in his own coin. Yes, I like this. Who can we name as Lady Selyse's lover? She has two brothers, I believe. And one of her uncles has been with her on Dragonstone all this time . . ."

 

[Lord of Oldstones]

47 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Just to clarify. Just because it's happened a few times doesn't mean Westeros is whatevs about this type of marriage. The counsel debated releasing a rumor that Selyse was sleeping with her brothers or uncles as a fighting fire with fire form of retaliation for Stannis' letter accusing Cersei of incest. They ended up going with Patchface as it would likely unman Stannis more.

ACOK Tyrion III (Discussing retaliation for Stannis’ letters sent all over the kingdom accusing Cersei of incest)

 

"Your Grace, your brother has the right of this." Petyr Baelish steepled his fingers. "If we attempt to silence this talk, we only lend it credence. Better to treat it with contempt, like the pathetic lie it is. And meantime, fight fire with fire."

 

Cersei gave him a measuring look. "What sort of fire?"

 

"A tale of somewhat the same nature, perhaps. But more easily believed. Lord Stannis has spent most of his marriage apart from his wife. Not that I fault him, I'd do the same were I married to Lady Selyse. Nonetheless, if we put it about that her daughter is baseborn and Stannis a cuckold, well . . . the smallfolk are always eager to believe the worst of their lords, particularly those as stern, sour, and prickly proud as Stannis Baratheon."

 

"He has never been much loved, that's true." Cersei considered a moment. "So we pay him back in his own coin. Yes, I like this. Who can we name as Lady Selyse's lover? She has two brothers, I believe. And one of her uncles has been with her on Dragonstone all this time . . ."

 

 

 

Those quotes are irrelevant Selyse is married to Stannis,The claiminant King spreading false rumors about her extra marital affairs will always be controversial and make her & Stannis unpopular whether it be her uncle,brother or some peasant.Uncle-Niece marriage is generally acceptable but for that instance when High Septon didn’t allow Maegor to marry Rhaena

[Angel Eyes]

33 minutes ago, Lordth said:

Those quotes are irrelevant Selyse is married to Stannis,The claiminant King spreading false rumors about her extra marital affairs will always be controversial and make her & Stannis unpopular whether it be her uncle,brother or some peasant.Uncle-Niece marriage is generally acceptable but for that instance when High Septon didn’t allow Maegor to marry Rhaena

Cause he'd let loose Balerion?

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

And one of her uncles has been with her on Dragonstone all this time . . ."

This is implication that she was cheating Stannis with her uncle, this is not implication of incest, it's implication of her marital betrayal. Uncle X niece, or aunt X nephew is not incest in Westeros.

3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

That's because they're Targaryens, they get a free pass.

Not Targaryens, uncles and nieces that married:

Serena Stark - her half-uncle Edric Stark.

Serena's sister Sansa Stark was also married with her half-uncle Jonnel Stark.

"Bastards were common enough, but incest was a monstrous sin to both old gods and the new, and the children of such wickedness were named abominations in sept and godswood alike. The dragonkings had wed brother to sister, but they were the blood of old Valyria where such practices had been common, and like their dragons the Targaryens answered to neither gods nor men." – Thoughts of Catelyn Stark.

According to northern religion incest is a sin, thus the fact that two Stark girls married with their half-uncles, mean that it's not incest.

In real world, marriages like that, in medieval Europe weren't considered as incest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avunculate_marriage 

[Lollygag]

3 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Just to clarify. Just because it's happened a few times doesn't mean Westeros is whatevs about this type of marriage. The counsel debated releasing a rumor that Selyse was sleeping with her brothers or uncles as a fighting fire with fire form of retaliation for Stannis' letter accusing Cersei of incest. They ended up going with Patchface as it would likely unman Stannis more.

ACOK Tyrion III (Discussing retaliation for Stannis’ letters sent all over the kingdom accusing Cersei of incest)

 

"Your Grace, your brother has the right of this." Petyr Baelish steepled his fingers. "If we attempt to silence this talk, we only lend it credence. Better to treat it with contempt, like the pathetic lie it is. And meantime, fight fire with fire."

 

Cersei gave him a measuring look. "What sort of fire?"

 

"A tale of somewhat the same nature, perhaps. But more easily believed. Lord Stannis has spent most of his marriage apart from his wife. Not that I fault him, I'd do the same were I married to Lady Selyse. Nonetheless, if we put it about that her daughter is baseborn and Stannis a cuckold, well . . . the smallfolk are always eager to believe the worst of their lords, particularly those as stern, sour, and prickly proud as Stannis Baratheon."

 

"He has never been much loved, that's true." Cersei considered a moment. "So we pay him back in his own coin. Yes, I like this. Who can we name as Lady Selyse's lover? She has two brothers, I believe. And one of her uncles has been with her on Dragonstone all this time . . ."

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Megorova said:

3 hours ago, Lollygag said:

And one of her uncles has been with her on Dragonstone all this time . . ."

This is implication that she was cheating Stannis with her uncle, this is not implication of incest, it's implication of her marital betrayal. Uncle X niece, or aunt X nephew is not incest in Westeros.

Come on, you're better than this and no one is falling for it. You can only make that case when you pull that quote out of context as you just did here, thus getting rid of the fight fire with fire part, to pay him back with his own coin, and that Cersei first suggested Selyse's two brothers. 

Please do not hack my posts (or the text) to change what it looks like I said. Not cool.

[Angel Eyes]

On 2/23/2018 at 11:53 AM, Kandrax said:

In this scenario, there is no chance for Robb to insult Freys in any way.

Walder would definitely asked for Arya to be  bethroted to Elmar, but now that Robb and Edmure are married men, would he asked for Bran and Brynden?

So are you suggesting that Robb and Edmure marry? Thought same-sex marriage is banned in Westeros.

[Megorova]

6 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Come on, you're better than this and no one is falling for it. You can only make that case when you pull that quote out of context as you just did here, thus getting rid of the fight fire with fire part, to pay him back with his own coin, and that Cersei first suggested Selyse's two brothers. 

Please do not hack my posts (or the text) to change what it looks like I said. Not cool.

I had no intentions to change meaning of what you said. I took only last sentence, because I was disagreeng only with part, that her fake affair with her uncle, is also incest. Uncle X niece is not incest in Westeros.

Her supposed affair with her brothers is incest. And I didn't disregarded parts about fight fire with fire, or pay him back with his own coin.

Bassically Stannis accused Cersei in two sins - incest and adultery. So Cersei wanted to use the same accusations against Selyse - incest with her brothers, and affair with her uncle (which is just an adultery, and not adultery + incest). My post was only about part uncle x niece, thus I used only last sentence from your post.

[Lollygag]

3 hours ago, Lordth said:

Those quotes are irrelevant Selyse is married to Stannis,The claiminant King spreading false rumors about her extra marital affairs will always be controversial and make her & Stannis unpopular whether it be her uncle,brother or some peasant.Uncle-Niece marriage is generally acceptable but for that instance when High Septon didn’t allow Maegor to marry Rhaena

The claimant king is making accusations of incest, adultery and treason (the adultery and treason are the same thing as far as Stannis knows) and the incest accusation is what really has Cersei riled up hence why fighting fire with fire for her is accusing Selyse of sleeping with her brothers or uncle. Tyrion later singles out the incest as the problem. General adultery can't be proven, but you could sway some with the book hence that is the issue and why they fight back. 

 

ACOK Tyrion III (Discussing retaliation for Stannis’ letters sent all over the kingdom accusing Cersei of incest)

 

The queen was not disposed to wait on Varys. "Treason is vile enough," she declared furiously, "but this is barefaced naked villainy, and I do not need that mincing eunuch to tell me what must be done with villains."

Tyrion took the letters from his sister's hand and compared them side by side. There were two copies, the words exactly alike, though they had been written by different hands.

"Maester Frenken received the first missive at Castle Stokeworth," Grand Maester Pycelle explained. "The second copy came through Lord Gyles."

Littlefinger fingered his beard. "If Stannis bothered with them, it's past certain every other lord in the Seven Kingdoms saw a copy as well."

"I want these letters burned, every one," Cersei declared. "No hint of this must reach my son's ears, or my father's." 

"I imagine Father's heard rather more than a hint by now," Tyrion said dryly. "Doubtless Stannis sent a bird to Casterly Rock, and another to Harrenhal. As for burning the letters, to what point? The song is sung, the wine is spilled, the wench is pregnant. And this is not as dire as it seems, in truth."

Cersei turned on him in green-eyed fury. "Are you utterly witless? Did you read what he says? The boy Joffrey, he calls him. And he dares to accuse me of incest, adultery, and treason!"

Only because you're guilty. It was astonishing to see how angry Cersei could wax over accusations she knew perfectly well to be true. If we lose the war, she ought to take up mummery, she has a gift for it. Tyrion waited until she was done and said, "Stannis must have some pretext to justify his rebellion. What did you expect him to write? 'Joffrey is my brother's trueborn son and heir, but I mean to take his throne for all that'?"

"I will not suffer to be called a whore!"

Why, sister, he never claims Jaime paid you. Tyrion made a show of glancing over the writing again. There had been some niggling phrase . . . "Done in the Light of the Lord," he read. "A queer choice of words, that."

Pycelle cleared his throat. "These words often appear in letters and documents from the Free Cities. They mean no more than, let us say, written in the sight of god. The god of the red priests. It is their usage, I do believe."

"Varys told us some years past that Lady Selyse had taken up with a red priest," Littlefinger reminded them.

Tyrion tapped the paper. "And now it would seem her lord husband has done the same. We can use that against him. Urge the High Septon to reveal how Stannis has turned against the gods as well as his rightful king . . ."

"Yes, yes," the queen said impatiently, "but first we must stop this filth from spreading further. The council must issue an edict. Any man heard speaking of incest or calling Joff a bastard should lose his tongue for it."

"A prudent measure," said Grand Maester Pycelle, his chain of office clinking as he nodded.

"A folly," sighed Tyrion. "When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."

"So what would you have us do?" his sister demanded.

"Very little. Let them whisper, they'll grow bored with the tale soon enough. Any man with a thimble of sense will see it for a clumsy attempt to justify usurping the crown. Does Stannis offer proof? How could he, when it never happened?" Tyrion gave his sister his sweetest smile.

"That's so," she had to say. "Still . . ."

"Your Grace, your brother has the right of this." Petyr Baelish steepled his fingers. "If we attempt to silence this talk, we only lend it credence. Better to treat it with contempt, like the pathetic lie it is. And meantime, fight fire with fire."

Cersei gave him a measuring look. "What sort of fire?"

"A tale of somewhat the same nature, perhaps. But more easily believed. Lord Stannis has spent most of his marriage apart from his wife. Not that I fault him, I'd do the same were I married to Lady Selyse. Nonetheless, if we put it about that her daughter is baseborn and Stannis a cuckold, well . . . the smallfolk are always eager to believe the worst of their lords, particularly those as stern, sour, and prickly proud as Stannis Baratheon."

"He has never been much loved, that's true." Cersei considered a moment. "So we pay him back in his own coin. Yes, I like this. Who can we name as Lady Selyse's lover? She has two brothers, I believe. And one of her uncles has been with her on Dragonstone all this time . . ."

 ...

"I shall saddle him for you." Varys took tack and saddle down from a peg.

Tyrion adjusted the heavy cloak and paced restlessly. "You missed a lively council. Stannis has crowned himself, it seems."

"I know."

"He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion."

"Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard's hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear." The eunuch's laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty.

 

 

[Kandrax]

25 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So are you suggesting that Robb and Edmure marry? Thought same-sex marriage is banned in Westeros.

No, i am suggesting that they have wives.

[Lollygag]

2 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I had no intentions to change meaning of what you said. I took only last sentence, because I was disagreeng only with part, that her fake affair with her uncle, is also incest. Uncle X niece is not incest in Westeros.

Her supposed affair with her brothers is incest. And I didn't disregarded parts about fight fire with fire, or pay him back with his own coin.

Bassically Stannis accused Cersei in two sins - incest and adultery. So Cersei wanted to use the same accusations against Selyse - incest with her brothers, and affair with her uncle (which is just an adultery, and not adultery + incest). My post was only about part uncle x niece, thus I used only last sentence from your post.

Context is very important in the books and it determines how things are to be interpreted. We very much disagree then as to how the books are being written if you feel that line can be pulled out the context and given that meaning. 

[Megorova]

The only time in ASOIAF where incest and uncle X niece were mentioned together, is here:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Incest

"The views regarding marriages between an uncle and a niece (or an aunt to a nephew) might differ between the Faith and the old gods. Although the High Septon protested against a possible marriage between Prince Maegor and his niece Rhaena,^[3][13] in the north, Serena Stark had been wed to her uncle, Edric, while her sister Sansa Stark had been wed to her uncle Jonnel Stark.^[7] "

 

First sentence is not a quote from the World book, it's just a personal opinion of whoever was writing that entry in the Wikia.

This is other entry regarding that same event:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/High_Septon_(Aegon_I)

"In 24 AC, when Queen Visenya Targaryen proposed a marriage between her son Maegor and her niece, Princess Rhaena, the High Septon strongly objected. Instead, he suggested his own niece, Lady Ceryse Hightower. Maegor and Ceryse were wed in 25 AC in the Starry Sept in Oldtown,^[3][1][2] with the ceremony performed by the High Septon himself.^[3]"

 

Thus High Septon objected to that marriage between Maegor and Rhaena, not because they were uncle and niece, but because Aegon's first son and crown prince Aenys I Targaryen, already has married with a member of Valyrian family (Alyssa Velaryon). And High Septon wanted for at least King's other son, to marry with someone from Westeros, and not with another Valyrian bride. Furthermore, he wanted second prince to marry not with some random girl from some random royal family of 7K, he wanted his own niece (High Septon's niece) Ceryse Hightower to marry with prince Maegor, and to join Targaryen family and their royal court, and become a princess. 

Rhaena Targaryen was already a Princess, and High Septon wanted for his own niece also to become a Princess. That's why he objected. He objected to Rhaena, not to incest, because there was NO incest in that uncle X niece marriage.

31 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Context is very important in the books and it determines how things are to be interpreted. We very much disagree then as to how the books are being written if you feel that line can be pulled out the context and given that meaning. 

Whether in the whole text, or in a separate sentence, the meaning of that line is the same and doesn't change - it was suggestion that they can accuse Selyse in having an affair with her uncle. And affair with her uncle is one crime - adultery. While Cersei's crime was double - her affair with Jaime was adultery and incest.