Why Be a Teacher At All ?

[S John]

2 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

 

 

It is my experience that in order to teach, you need to have a greater and deeper mastery of the subject matter in question than one who merely "does".  Doing can be learned by rote without a deep understanding.  Teaching involves understanding the subject matter so that it can be explained multiple ways, anticipating questions, being facile enough with the material to answer unanticipated questions on the fly.  It also requires strong project management skills, organization, and a really high EQ.  I am someone who enjoys teaching but has found something else to do with my life.  That doesn't mean that I don't completely understand why someone would teach.

Yea I agree, I have always thought that I would probably enjoy being a teacher.  The biggest downside from my perspective would be dealing with students who misbehave since I don't think you are allowed to beat them anymore.  But, like, if all the kids were excited to be there, I think it'd be a great profession.  

[Xray the Enforcer]

9 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

I have never, EVER met anyone who teaches because they couldn't get a different job.

People who shit on teachers, as a whole, are some of the dumbest motherfuckers going. 

[Darth Richard II]

1 minute ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

People who shit on teachers, as a whole, are some of the dumbest motherfuckers going. 

Preach.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Anecdote:

My mother's been a primary school teacher (I think Americans call it grade school) since 1975. She was taking the year off to do her Masters in Education in 2004, only for the New Zealand Government to merge her school with another one - she got made redundant in her absence. She was over-qualified for local schools, so she ended up getting a job over in the US, specifically Georgia. Working in an American state/public school was a strange experience for her - she really hated the obsession with testing, and having to waste hours entering test data into databases. It was also a bit freaky as an outsider to encounter the de-facto segregation of the American South's school system - with all the local white children in private schools, she was teaching an all-black class, with a handful of hispanic children.

Her conclusion was that they were lovely kids, being screwed over by an appalling system.

(When the Recession hit, the school board decided American teachers only, so she had to go elsewhere. She's spent the past few years teaching in the U.A.E.). 

[GAROVORKIN]

10 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Basically plagiarized Ghengis Khan. 

Sounds about right. 

[Darth Richard II]

Both my parents are retired teachers, I know all about the testing obsession. If you think it was bad in 2004...man, today its just ...i don't have words.

[Lightning Lord]

I've been teaching for more than ten years.  I cannot imagine doing anything else. Every day brings new, unique challenges.  If I'm in a bad mood, the kids can make me smile.  If I'm in a good mood, it often rubs off on the kids.  I get to encourage them and watch them grow, watch them develop their own ideas.  I explicitly tell them not to believe me for everything and find ways to make their own decisions.

The time off is nice.  It is a lot of time off.  I find it's kinda necessary for a recharge, though.  Every day of work is a combination of lecturing, mentoring, cajoling, public speaking, entertaining, and counseling.  Every day is spent trying to get large groups of teenagers to agree to do things that they really don't want to do.  And to listen to parents, and adhere to/enforce policies that I often don't agree with (like I give a damn if my student's uniform isn't buttoned to the second button???).  I don't need the overly-long summer, but a couple weeks to just reset...yeah.

I am a lucky man to have this job.  That said, the prospect of teaching in the US is appalling to me.  

[Lightning Lord]

Yes.  Most of my memories are of the good moments.  Those are usually not even really special, but just small things.  Little "Ah-ha!" moments for someone trying, or a class getting really into an assignment or discussion.  There are bad memories, but they matter so much less.

[DMC]

8 hours ago, Astromech said:

Indoctrination, of course. Those young, malleable minds are ripe for deception and manipulation. Plus, they might actually think you're cool.

People always say teaching is rewarding.  This has always been the most rewarding part for me.

[baxus]

I guess it depends on the country you're teaching in.

In Serbia, private schools are very few and are pretty expensive and of questionable quality so almost all kids go to public schools. Our teachers are government employees and, with our economy being what it is, are severely underpaid. When I say underpaid, I'm saying they earn the salary that's actually below average. On top of that, their hands are tied with all kinds of regulations that almost completely remove the option of punishing kids who are behaving inappropriately. Just to point out, when I say "punish" I don't mean anything physical, but give equivalents of detention and suspension and, finally, expulsion.

6 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

People who shit on teachers, as a whole, are some of the dumbest motherfuckers going. 

This is also a huge problem in Serbia. A lot of people blatantly and openly disrespect teachers, saying they are doing nothing complicated, have a lot of vacation etc.

I guess that's to be expected in the population with < 10% of university graduates and post-graduates, and about as many illiterate people (mostly really old people in rural areas).

Education as a whole has been severely downgraded and as a result very few people who have other options stay in teaching.

[mankytoes]

13 hours ago, Mikael said:

I've yet to meet a teacher that couldn't have done something else for equal or better pay.. 

That said, I'm really glad I ended up a teacher, doubt I would have had a better time in any other profession. 

Damn, you are lucky. Private education system? I went to a decent English comprehensive (public school to Yanks) and the level of teaching ranged from excellent to borderline incompetent. I had one science teacher when I was 13 who was a lovely woman, but incapable of explaining several of the concepts we were learning. And this was not some super advanced class. Two of my best ever teachers were science teachers when I was a bit older. I also had a couple of creepy teachers, one who somehow got away with hitting on sixth form girls in the local bars (good PE teacher though). Another PE teacher was a complete bully, one of the most pathetic men I've ever known. To see a grown man ignore/join in bullying with a group of twelve year olds, to suck up to the cool kids and get them on the rugby team? Looking back, that's very sad.

I guess this is true of basically every industry, good and bad. I think it's hard to argue teaching isn't one of the most important jobs out there. I've taught a little, and it's far harder than my current job, which is just some customer service thing. It is rewarding, more than most jobs, but I found it extremely mentally exhausting, I'm not sure I could do it. You need a bit of natural authority. I was a little shit, and you'd get some teachers enter the room, and you'd just know right away you could piss around.

[Isalie]

7 hours ago, mankytoes said:

Damn, you are lucky. Private education system? I went to a decent English comprehensive (public school to Yanks) and the level of teaching ranged from excellent to borderline incompetent. I had one science teacher when I was 13 who was a lovely woman, but incapable of explaining several of the concepts we were learning. And this was not some super advanced class. Two of my best ever teachers were science teachers when I was a bit older. I also had a couple of creepy teachers, one who somehow got away with hitting on sixth form girls in the local bars (good PE teacher though). Another PE teacher was a complete bully, one of the most pathetic men I've ever known. To see a grown man ignore/join in bullying with a group of twelve year olds, to suck up to the cool kids and get them on the rugby team? Looking back, that's very sad.

I guess this is true of basically every industry, good and bad. I think it's hard to argue teaching isn't one of the most important jobs out there. I've taught a little, and it's far harder than my current job, which is just some customer service thing. It is rewarding, more than most jobs, but I found it extremely mentally exhausting, I'm not sure I could do it. You need a bit of natural authority. I was a little shit, and you'd get some teachers enter the room, and you'd just know right away you could piss around.

I don't really get your point, obviously there are going to be bad teachers, but for one, I was talking about my colleagues and for another, I don't see how your examples of bad teachers would disqualify them from getting another job?

My point wasn't that there are no bad teachers, I've even had a few less than stellar colleagues, but I have no problem seeing them doing well in another field. 

[Rippounet]

In my eurocommie country becoming a teacher is actually ridiculously difficult. You need a bachelor's in your specialty followed by a master's in education. You also need to pass a competitive exam in which they take one third of candidates at most and sometimes as little as one tenth. You also need to write a small thesis (for your master's) and teach for a few weeks before finishing your studies.
Then you have one year as a trainee during which you are supervised and inspected (the technical term for a classroom visit by the hierarchy) ; success is not guaranteed, many people take two years of training to become full-fledged teachers (and a small percentage just don't make it at all).
It's very obvious that anyone who manages to do all that can do a great deal of other things.
It's surprising there are so many candidates tbh. Tenure is attractive of course, as well as the long holidays (especially during the summer, you need to grade papers and prepare classes during the small ones), but the salary is actually quite small given the requirements.

[DanteGabriel]

12 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

In my eurocommie country becoming a teacher is actually ridiculously difficult. You need a bachelor's in your specialty followed by a master's in education. You also need to pass a competitive exam in which they take one third of candidates at most and sometimes as little as one tenth. You also need to write a small thesis (for your master's) and teach for a few weeks before finishing your studies.
Then you have one year as a trainee during which you are supervised and inspected (the technical term for a classroom visit by the hierarchy) ; success is not guaranteed, many people take two years of training to become full-fledged teachers (and a small percentage just don't make it at all).
It's very obvious that anyone who manages to do all that can do a great deal of other things.
It's surprising there are so many candidates tbh. Tenure is attractive of course, as well as the long holidays (especially during the summer, you need to grade papers and prepare classes during the small ones), but the salary is actually quite small given the requirements.

It's almost like... people in other countries value some things more than money? Must be nice.

[Erik of Hazelfield]

I worked as a teacher for about a year and I think it was awesome. Besides all the other good stuff already mentioned, I remember liking the fact that I felt connected to stuff I had long since forgotten was important. We celebrated Christmas. We went ice skating in the winter. I had to teach about biology, which I had never previously been interested in but now was utterly fascinated with. The start of summer break was a magical mix of joy, anticipation and a hint of wistfulness. I saw young people with problems so deep that my own seemed silly by comparison. 

In short, teaching made me feel alive. Unfortunately I cannot go back (wrong education and nowadays teaching requires a special exam).

[Buckwheat]

10 hours ago, baxus said:

This is also a huge problem in Serbia. A lot of people blatantly and openly disrespect teachers, saying they are doing nothing complicated, have a lot of vacation etc.

I guess that's to be expected in the population with < 10% of university graduates and post-graduates, and about as many illiterate people (mostly really old people in rural areas).

Education as a whole has been severely downgraded and as a result very few people who have other options stay in teaching.

Here too. Many people have a very dismissing opinion of teachers. And this even though, as Rippournet said, it is actually hard to become one.

Actually there was a giant strike by teachers a few weeks ago demanding better pay and better working conditions. Many also complain that the education plans are ridiculous, too theoretical, and don't allow children to develop the specialised areas they are good at. And they complain about parents trying to influence people's work too much. But in most every statement teachers give for the media, they say that they actually love working with children, giving their knowledge to the next generation etc.

[Deminelle]

19 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I used to teach kids with behavioral issues. It was very rewarding work, albeit difficult. 

Behavioral issues in class room are becoming more of an issue in my country where integration is the word today. Not all teachers have knowledge how to deal with diverse  learners.

In general the interaction between home and school may be very difficult. Parents may demand quite a lot from teachers and the lack of respect that children show is learned at home.

Teaching is one of the hardest jobs in the world. I have huge respect for those teachers who don't excessively whine about their job or resort to sarcasm. And from what I've seen generally those who have proper education for teaching are good at their job. However this profession needs substitutes often and there are people whom should never be let in the class room doors.

[mankytoes]

1 hour ago, Mikael said:

I don't really get your point, obviously there are going to be bad teachers, but for one, I was talking about my colleagues and for another, I don't see how your examples of bad teachers would disqualify them from getting another job?

My point wasn't that there are no bad teachers, I've even had a few less than stellar colleagues, but I have no problem seeing them doing well in another field. 

Well you said you'd never met a teacher who couldn't earn more, I assumed you met teachers when at school. Well some of them weren't very intelligent, so I wouldn't assume they could get a higher paying job. Obviously it depends where you live, but most countries have significant unemployment, it isn't like there are highly paid jobs all over the place.

I think there are just too many generalisations with teachers generally.

[Lily Valley]

19 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

People who shit on teachers, as a whole, are some of the dumbest motherfuckers going. 

They also fail my courses if they pull that shit in my class. 

[baxus]

17 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

Here too. Many people have a very dismissing opinion of teachers. And this even though, as Rippournet said, it is actually hard to become one.

Actually there was a giant strike by teachers a few weeks ago demanding better pay and better working conditions. Many also complain that the education plans are ridiculous, too theoretical, and don't allow children to develop the specialised areas they are good at. And they complain about parents trying to influence people's work too much. But in most every statement teachers give for the media, they say that they actually love working with children, giving their knowledge to the next generation etc.

It's almost as if we were in the same country... once upon a time.  

In Serbia, there are Teaching colleges in universities for teachers grade 1-4, and for later on you need to have a university degree in an appropriate field, so it's definitely not easy to qualify to become a teacher. Still, people don't respect that and don't respect teachers nearly as much as they deserve. Also, there's this "my kid is the best kid in the world ever and teachers hate him/her" mindset that many parents have and teachers have very little at their disposal to fight that. It's a pretty bad situation, and not the one I would like to find myself in nor the one I think I'd be able to handle.