Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 If Kingsguard oath contain words like "father no children" it means Jaime break the oath twice with Joffrey and Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Here's a thread that tried to consolidate everything we know about the Kingsguard vows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, RedGrace that was promised said: If Kingsguard oath contain words like "father no children" it means Jaime break the oath twice with Joffrey and Tommen. What about Myrcella? The words say "father no children", not "father no SONS". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twinslayer Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Howlin' Howland said: Here's a thread that tried to consolidate everything we know about the Kingsguard vows: Nice to see that old thread again. To answer the OP, Jaime's entire purpose in entering the KG was to break the KG vow because he joined for the purpose of sleeping with Cersei. According to Barristan Selmy, one thing the KGs swear is chastity. That does not appear to be just an oath not to take a wife or to father children, but rather an oath to take no lover. Jaime's purpose in joining the KG was to give him access to Cersei, so he took the oath in order to break it. It is safe to assume that if he saw Cersei at any point after joining the KG and before killing Aerys, he would have slept with her (assuming she agreed). We know that he slept with Cersei the morning of her wedding to Robert and then continued to do so throughout Robert's reign. It seems that he did not see Cersei during the course of Joffrey's reign but he was with her again during Tommen's. So he has been breaking the oath constantly for 17+ years. Apart from the vow of celibacy, he seems to have broken virtually all the rest as well: 1. Protect the king from harm or threat: he killed Aerys, and he may have been in on Cersei's plan to kill Robert. 2. Provide the same KG protection to royals, lovers, mistresses and bastards (but only if so directed): he failed to protect Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon from the Mountain when they were under his care, and he failed to protect Rhaella from Aerys. 3. Follow orders from the king, other royals, the Hand and the Small Council. Aerys ordered him to kill Tywin and Jaime refused the order. Jaime also ordered the other KGs to refuse orders from Tommen under certain circumstances. 4. Serve the king's pleasure. Jaime abandoned his post after attacking Ned and instead of serving Robert, rode off to raise an army. It is not clear whether he did this to support the Mountain's attack on the Riverlands, to protect Cersei in the event Robert learned of the incest, or if he did it to mobilize the Lannister forces in anticipation of Cersei's attempt on Robert's life, but whatever his reason, he wasn't serving Robert's pleasure. 5. Keep the king's secrets. After Joffrey became king, he told Catelyn that Joffrey was not Robert's son. And I think he told Tyrion about the wildfire plot so that the Lannister's would have a secret stash of wildfire in KL if they ever needed it. It came in very handy during the Battle of the Blackwater. And he told Brienne about the wildfire plot. 6. Protect the King's name and honor. Sleeping with the king's wife clearly violates that vow. 7. Maintain chastity. Same as above. Some of Jaime's decisions are understandable under the circumstances (for example, it is understandable that a KG would disobey an order to kill his own father, since kinslaying may be a worse sin than oathbreaking), but that does not change the fact that Jaime never had any intention of keeping his KG vows even before he took them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Howlin' Howland said: Here's a thread that tried to consolidate everything we know about the Kingsguard vows: Good to find thank you! I have a growing idea surrounding our White Brothers along with the Grey Brothers (maesters) and Black Brothers (watch) and their vows all being the same. A weirwood near each. Weirwood grove of Nine near Castle Black, and the OG castle before Andals ever came would have been Night Fort with Black Gate. Citidel has a weirwood in the oldest part. And the Kingsguard table is a giant weirwood shield. The Kings Guard likely traces back to the Order of the Green Hand, the first Kings Guard of legend. Mentioned this else where and is part of a larger connection about the Maesters and the Wall, but thought this relevant to share here. Black brothers ------------------------------------->Maesters No kids check No lands check No wives check Live and die at post check Protect realms of Men check Light (Knowledge) in the dark (Ignorance) check Weirwood on or near grounds check Serve wall/castle and no other check White brothers, Grey Brothers, Black Brothers. 1.?wall 2.Walls of Old Town, 3.Thee Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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