HighSepton Stark

[AlaskanSandman]

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Eddard V

"He was going to be a knight," Arya was saying now. "A knight of the Kingsguard. Can he still be a knight?"

"No," Ned said. He saw no use in lying to her. "Yet someday he may be the lord of a great holdfast and sit on the king's council. He might raise castles like Brandon the Builder, or sail a ship across the Sunset Sea, or enter your mother's Faith and become the High Septon." But he will never run beside his wolf again, he thought with a sadness too deep for words, or lie with a woman, or hold his own son in his arms.

 

Did some other Stark in history become High Septon???? Building Castles like Brandon the Builder or sail a ship across the sunset sea (Brandon the Shipwright) are all things Starks have actually done. The First high Septon was around 1300 years ago ( 1000 years before Aegon I). So something worth watching out for or keeping an eye out for (sounds like a bad BR joke now, is Martin being glib?) 

• He might raise castles like Brandon the Builder- This is one Brandon just like our current Brandon.
• sail a ship across the Sunset Sea - King Brandon was known as Brandon the Shipwright, due to his love of the sea. He attempted to sail across the Sunset Sea

 

So the first two were achieved already by other previous Brandon Starks. So which Brandon was High Septon? Brandon Snow, brother of Torhen? The High Septon who opposed Aenys I with war using the Faith Militant?

Anythoughts though on who in the past could have been High Septon and which one??

[Universal Sword Donor]

5 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Did some other Stark in history become High Septon???? Building Castles like Brandon the Builder or sail a ship across the sunset sea (Brandon the Shipwright) are all things Starks have actually done. The First high Septon was around 1300 years ago ( 1000 years before Aegon I). So something worth watching out for or keeping an eye out for (sounds like a bad BR joke now, is Martin being glib?) 

Anythoughts though on who in the past could have been High Septon and which one??

I have compiled a non-exhaustive list of High Septons:

• The fat one
• The old one
• Howland Reed
• the stonemason
• the boy
• the one before the fat one

But no starks made the list

[AlaskanSandman]

2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

I have compiled a non-exhaustive list of High Septons:

• The fat one
• The old one
• Howland Reed
• the stonemason
• the boy
• the one before the fat one

But no starks made the list

With non sense like that, you just kind of show your self to be a negative person just going around being snarky and rude. Nice. We know one at least is related to House Hightower by marriage and integral during curucial events. There are a couple others that take center stage that could be a hidden Stark. 

[Bernie Mac]

Ned's children are also half Tully, perhaps he was making reference to a famous ancestor of Cat's, or perhaps the position of High Septon is just something that Great Lords find envious for their younger sons, especially sons who could no longer have a military career. 

 

Ned was trying to be positive about Bran's future prospects, I think you may be reading too much into it. 

[AlaskanSandman]

8 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Ned's children are also half Tully, perhaps he was making reference to a famous ancestor of Cat's, or perhaps the position of High Septon is just something that Great Lords find envious for their younger sons, especially sons who could no longer have a military career. 

 

Ned was trying to be positive about Bran's future prospects, I think you may be reading too much into it. 

Maybe, but i found it interesting that the first two things he mentions, the Starks are known for doing (Not Tully's, Bran Stark, not Bran Tully). Brandon the Builder built Castles and Brandon the Shipwright sailed the sunset sea. 

So im just curious if maybe there was also a High Septon Stark. They've only been around 1300 years and the main ones we are told of are around Aegon's Conquest and his sons. 

The Stark sons were angered at kneeling to Aegon and spoke of Rebellion. Why couldn't one son become Lord of Winterfell, while his brother became High Septon. The Same High Septon which launched The Faith Militant suddenly against Aenys I. For wedding his sister?

What in the world would make them think the Targaryen's would give this up??? Unless stipulated in some pact upon Aegon's Conquest, this is a dumb assumption and over bold given they just excepted Aegon with out a word or fart of disaproval. 

[Faera]

38 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Did some other Stark in history become High Septon????

Maybe? I don't think so, though.

That one line alone really isn't much to go on. The emphasis of entering "your mother's Faith" rather than just saying "enter the Faith" feels like Ned sees such a thing as something intrinsically linked to Cat. By which I mean, by having a mother who follows that religion it acts as a gateway to a Faith that a Stark would otherwise not have been involved in.

Besides, even if a Stark entered the Faith we simply don't know enough about all the cadet branches of the Stark family - or even main branch family members - to even speculate which Stark it could have been. We run the risk of just meaninglessly tossing names out right now.

Another problem is that High Septons give up their names upon upon taking office so it would be hard to match any hypothetical Stark to even the most complete list of High Septons. Perhaps if one is revealed to have been nicknamed "The Horse-faced One" then we'd be on to something. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

22 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

With non sense like that, you just kind of show your self to be a negative person just going around being snarky and rude. Nice. We know one at least is related to House Hightower by marriage and integral during curucial events. There are a couple others that take center stage that could be a hidden Stark. 

There is literally no possible past candidate for a HS Stark. Every marriage that involved a family that worships the Faith produces someone we know isn't the HS, had only female children, or had those daughters marry into Vale house, which then doesn't seem to have produced any High Septons.

Ned's entire passage was placating Arya because of Bran's disability. He invokes his wife's faith for a reason. It's not common (or possibly hasn't happened in recent history) that a Stark even follows the faith, which presumably is a pre-requisite for anyone trying to be the High Septon, Howland Reed conspiracies be damned.

[Dorian Martell's son]

The high septons have been around for far longer than 1000 years. 1000 years before conquest is when the Rhyonar boats landed. The faith and knighthood were already established. Since the faith arrived with the Andals, and the earliest speculation of their arrival was 2000 years ago, and the latest was 6000 years ago, there would have to be a high septon not long after the last kingdom that kept the old gods was conquered 

[The Fattest Leech]

 

3 minutes ago, Faera said:

Another problem is that High Septons give up their names upon upon taking office so it would be hard to match any hypothetical Stark to even the most complete list of High Septons.

True.

3 minutes ago, Faera said:

 

Perhaps if one is revealed to have been nicknamed "The Horse-faced One" then we'd be on to something. 

Laughing my tail off at this

[Universal Sword Donor]

6 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The high septons have been around for far longer than 1000 years. 1000 years before conquest is when the Rhyonar boats landed. The faith and knighthood were already established. Since the faith arrived with the Andals, and the earliest speculation of their arrival was 2000 years ago, and the latest was 6000 years ago, there would have to be a high septon not long after the last kingdom that kept the old gods was conquered 

Oh boy, another timeline debate! 

[AlaskanSandman]

10 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The high septons have been around for far longer than 1000 years. 1000 years before conquest is when the Rhyonar boats landed. The faith and knighthood were already established. Since the faith arrived with the Andals, and the earliest speculation of their arrival was 2000 years ago, and the latest was 6000 years ago, there would have to be a high septon not long after the last kingdom that kept the old gods was conquered 

 

Quote

 

A Feast for Crows - Prologue

The Lord's Sept joined in a moment later, then the Seven Shrines from their gardens across the Honeywine, and finally the Starry Sept that had been the seat of the High Septon for a thousand years before Aegon landed at King's Landing. 

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown

When the Andals came, the Hightowers were amongst the first lords of Westeros to welcome them. "Wars are bad for trade," said Lord Dorian Hightower, when he set aside his wife of twenty years, the mother of his children, to take an Andal princess as his bride. His grandson Lord Damon (the Devout) was the first to accept the Faith. To honor the new gods, he built the first sept in Oldtown and six more elsewhere in his realm. When he died prematurely of a bad belly, Septon Robeson became regent for his newborn son, ruling Oldtown in all but name for the next twenty years and ultimately becoming the first High Septon. The boy he raised and trained, Lord Triston Hightower, raised the Starry Sept in his honor after his passing.

 

 

 

1300 years ago was the first technically based on the clues we are told. So they were around for 300 years before the Rhoynar landed 700 years before Aegon's Conquest. 

[AlaskanSandman]

12 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

There is literally no possible past candidate for a HS Stark. Every marriage that involved a family that worships the Faith produces someone we know isn't the HS, had only female children, or had those daughters marry into Vale house, which then doesn't seem to have produced any High Septons.

Ned's entire passage was placating Arya because of Bran's disability. He invokes his wife's faith for a reason. It's not common (or possibly hasn't happened in recent history) that a Stark even follows the faith, which presumably is a pre-requisite for anyone trying to be the High Septon, Howland Reed conspiracies be damned.

Ok, well this is a little more to work with haha yes, we are told that House Stark has no association to the Faith.

Others have noted though that what we are told about the Andals don't add up. The Andals should have Dark hair and build square structures (Look at pentos and Braavos). The Starks look like Andals then and not first men, which sound more like Valyrians. Even all the art in the books depicts the first men as blonde and the andals as brunettes. Was this an err? There's textual stuff to back this notion though. 

Also others have noted the connection between the Faith of the 7. The Father, Mother, Crone, Warrior, etc in relation to House Stark and it's 7 members. Ned=father, Cat= mother. 

I guess maybe this is deeper than my initial question though

[AlaskanSandman]

22 minutes ago, Faera said:

Maybe? I don't think so, though.

That one line alone really isn't much to go on. The emphasis of entering "your mother's Faith" rather than just saying "enter the Faith" feels like Ned sees such a thing as something intrinsically linked to Cat. By which I mean, by having a mother who follows that religion it acts as a gateway to a Faith that a Stark would otherwise not have been involved in.

Besides, even if a Stark entered the Faith we simply don't know enough about all the cadet branches of the Stark family - or even main branch family members - to even speculate which Stark it could have been. We run the risk of just meaninglessly tossing names out right now.

Another problem is that High Septons give up their names upon upon taking office so it would be hard to match any hypothetical Stark to even the most complete list of High Septons. Perhaps if one is revealed to have been nicknamed "The Horse-faced One" then we'd be on to something. 

What like something more tied to ancient House Stark, like say, a "Builder"?

• The High Septon during the reign of King Baelor I Targaryen who had been that been a stonemason, whom the Most Devout elected after Baelor insisted he had had a vision.^[7]

 

Just because it's hard to do something doens't mean it's impossible to do by some, just saying. That's literally life. Alot can't do something, but some can. Art, Sports, Math, Science, etc. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

13 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Ok, well this is a little more to work with haha yes, we are told that House Stark has no association to the Faith.

Others have noted though that what we are told about the Andals don't add up. The Andals should have Dark hair and build square structures (Look at pentos and Braavos). The Starks look like Andals then and not first men, which sound more like Valyrians. Even all the art in the books depicts the first men as blonde and the andals as brunettes. Was this an err? There's textual stuff to back this notion though. 

Also others have noted the connection between the Faith of the 7. The Father, Mother, Crone, Warrior, etc in relation to House Stark and it's 7 members. Ned=father, Cat= mother. 

I guess maybe this is deeper than my initial question though

I would think it's not really connected.

[Faera]

6 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

What like something more tied to ancient House Stark, like say, a "Builder"?

• The High Septon during the reign of King Baelor I Targaryen who had been that been a stonemason, whom the Most Devout elected after Baelor insisted he had had a vision.^[7]

 

Just because it's hard to do something doens't mean it's impossible to do by some, just saying. That's literally life. Alot can't do something, but some can. Art, Sports, Math, Science, etc. 

I don't quite understand how this follows from what I said.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

A bear shits in the woods, the pope is Catholic, the High Septon follows the Seven. But the Faith of the Seven was absent from Winterfell before the arrival of Cat née Tully (judging by the brand new sept). So, nope.

[AlaskanSandman]

36 minutes ago, Faera said:

Perhaps if one is revealed to have been nicknamed "The Horse-faced One" then we'd be on to something. 

You make mock that maybe if we had a horse faced one, i brought up one more tied to House Starks origins.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

35 minutes ago, Faera said:

Another problem is that High Septons give up their names upon upon taking office so it would be hard to match any hypothetical Stark to even the most complete list of High Septons.

Or, more precisely, they give up their family names when becoming septons, and with taking the highest office, they relinquish their first, middle and any other names as well.

[AlaskanSandman]

4 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

I would think it's not really connected.

Possibly. And i know theres a few of you that dont think much are connected. Some though make some cool connections and associations though and may have something i haven't considered. This is just a question and not a theory after all

[AlaskanSandman]

And yes, as i stated above, i know they give up their names and it's not easy to figure out based on clues lol so any thing will be specualtion till more info is possibly given